# Metalayer, metalayer, metalayer | Maciej Baj | ETHWarsaw [4]

- Channel: [ETH Warsaw](https://streameth.org/eth-warsaw)
- Date: 2025-11-09
- Duration: 23:10
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt--xS0unbIIcQ
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xS0unbIIcQ

## Description

Maciej Baj from T3rn talks about smart contract interoperability. No duplicated efforts, Inconsistencies, or security risks.

🎥 Recorded at ETHWarsaw 2025

Follow ETHWarsaw on social media for the latest updates!
X (Twitter): https://x.com/ETHWarsaw  
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ethwarsaw
Telegram chat: https://t.me/joinethwarsaw

## Transcript

Hello, my name is Mache. I represent turn and the title you cannot miss. It's called metal layer. Uh and that's uh what the talk is going to be about. So essentially, okay, metal layer. Yeah. Uh the slots don't load very good. But today's talk this is mainly a little bit of a intro and then especially for you guys listen the >> really I do have a good one actually. >> Yeah. scanning for virus. >> It's not about scanning for viruses this talk. >> Yeah. Okay. But anyways, yeah. So, uh the the main goal for me today would be a little bit to get the uh assessment from you guys and perhaps see if you would like to engage and whatever smart contracts you have now that exist and work on a single chain. Um yeah, we'd be happy to work with you on making them crosschain. What we're building with turn it is essentially combining all of the components, all of the modules that would make designing programming and the full overall execution of smart contracts exactly how they work on the single layer. We try to amass all of the modules to put them on one single EVM so that they're accessible. Yeah. So uh we try to break the barriers between okay I send the transfer now it doesn't really matter if I send the transfer to to E if base optimism I can exactly do it from one layer and we provide all of the tools system to verify that something has happened and then to also add as many modules as possible to make this as transparent and as well uh governed as possible. So yeah, we're adding more and more bits to the metal now. Yeah. So uh maybe you guys have heard about the polymer some of you. Yes. No. Yeah. So they do have like a very funny uh system essentially uh that we have hooked on. Yeah. So they aggregate the state proofs from uh most of the EVM chains plus Solana. Uh this is very nice. And yeah. >> Yeah. >> Thank you. [Laughter] Okay. So essentially uh I think this is the the very point of us starting the the verification uh that happens via polymer. Essentially what it enables you to do it is that uh you have an event and the confirmation via Patricia Mer proof. Yeah. That any event on any of the supported layers and there is like 16 EVMS plus Solana so many has happened on any chain. uh we have deployed uh their system and wrapped it with the universal uh event and transaction verifier to it that extends also yeah not only EVMs but then also Bitcoin Solanas um so that essentially anything that has happened on the remote chain now you can order read the events uh read the data and potentially spawn some logic on top of it. Yeah. And then again this is like a little bit of a uh call to action for today. Whatever module you are missing. Yeah. We are putting now all of the gases from across all of the chains. Yeah. So you can then try to have a little bit of a trading logic that tries to maneuver around the the gas prices around the asset prices. Uh there is yeah infinite possibilities over there of the things that we can uh move and hook onto the uh universal meta layer. But yeah, just like a general outage like we're going to be definitely prioritizing those that make sense for us to focus on on later. Uh so if you have something some cool ideas over there, definitely do reach out. uh little bit of a yeah the the latest kind of evolution to the meta layer which is the governance system to it. Let me jump a little bit. Yeah. So governance uh we are introducing it now and it might be especially useful in terms of like longevity. So not only that you can add the crosschain modules to it, you can then hook on the kind of the generic uh governance system that is also designed as part of the smart contracts comes with like a nice user interface. Uh we're thinking of adding the special kind of a yeah clapping system to it so to speak uh to promote the organic growth of of the chain of of your product and take care of all of the pieces when it comes to like the full uh the full spectrum deployment of of any uh of any contract that is being out there. So the the rule of the governance this is very basic something can be added uh and if it passes referendum for the seven days then it's going to get activated and it's going to be the part of the global kind of governance system of turn uh the same way it can be vaulted down so the module kind of goes down. Yeah sorry for jumping that was a very uh costly experiment. What did I do? Mhm. >> Not too much ammo. What? Without the presentation? Yeah, possibly. Yeah, but I do have a nice one. Yeah. >> Should I put on my laptop? >> Fix my Yeah guys, thank thank you for joining. It's about the uh you know essentially the uh system is capable of Yeah. Okay. So you have the governance if you want to build the crosschain smart contracts. Yeah. Now it's nice if you have a highway. Yeah. So what does it actually mean that happens if you say from one single EVM chain? What does it actually mean that the transfer any call is going to be disposed and executed on the on the remote uh target chain? Yeah, this is uh in the intentbased system like ours now. Yeah. Then you need to have all of the pricing all of the good uh quote components to it. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe you can just put on, you know, this presentation seems to be very successful so far. Uh but maybe we just scroll here. Oh, let's synchronize. There we go. So, okay. This is uh quite a good concept that I'm especially interested in exploring now like last weeks. Yeah. So uh we got kind of used to that. Uh now when we talk about crosschain bridges there is usually the intentbased system. Yeah. So all of the projects like a very cool solving networks and then the solvers talk to one another and then the solvers talk to one another. Yeah. Very cool uh systems over there. Yeah. But like uh practically speaking, yeah, if uh there is some like and this is something that we observe on the network being live and deployed there is some kind of uh yeah unexpected events that are not necessarily associated with the technicalities. Yeah, sometimes just the pricing goes off. Yeah, there is uh spikes that are happening on the main networks. It usually coincides with the oh whatever uh price goes up, price goes down. all of the uh all of the dexes go go crazy with the with the gas and then the intentbased systems they go off for a little bit. Uh or especially I think for like a yeah the assets that are not very popular to like for if it's fine yeah if doesn't go like crazy in terms of the price but then sending the intent base for like this assets that are kind of like yeah somewhere like in the middle. Yeah. they can change change the uh on the price of the asset. The risk is not only on the user side to lose money or not on the user side not to deliver the information but also on the solver side to then make a loss on executing those assets. So we tried to experiment with a a little bit different model of the highway of passing the events between the chains uh besides the just in 10 base and this is like a yeah a subscription kind of model to it. uh not like yeah so basically to have the uh good sensible number of how much of the gas cost should be costing on every uh of the chain that is being integrated. Yeah. So you're going to be paying a little bit more but then you're going to have a guarantee that you're not going to be for example executing when there is like a spike. So there is essentially a trade-off between okay I'm saving that amount of gas in overall but unfortunately for 2% of whatever time within the week this will not be functional because of the gas spike. So this is the facto yeah something that intent based uh systems are working on kind of now sort of like a hidden yeah now unfortunately it is uh this is going high wire in terms of the spikes here we try to put it under control and essentially make a subscriptionbased model. Yeah. So we know exactly how the gas limits are going to be looking like for now yeah for uh for turn this is kind of like easy to estimate but we try to make it like very very generic for any user that comes and builds on top of the metal layer. So the gas limit those can be um estimated on every linking chain and this if we do have this golden number of the of the gas price. We can also start scheduling and have a yeah like a clear subscription model like okay to whatever put the source events from the chain from ERP and base to optimism hype you're going to be paying this much for a month for this specific event. Yeah. And uh they had this bus this highway uh we'll be doing this behind the scene without kind of this yeah uh atomic approach of having the intense based system of okay I take this event doesn't make sense for me to execute now go for it or revert yeah this is how turn is working in the moment but we are designing like a yeah like a better scaling system for the systems that need to really have a good uh yeah reliability all all the time. He's more handsome than me. >> Okay. Anyway, so uh if you're willing to experiment, there is a little QR code. It's going to take you everywhere across our socials and across my socials, too. So you can reach out to me in case you do not know um me. Please do approach me after the talk to yeah perhaps if you have any questions any kind of ideas of what could be crosschenified and especially now I would love to get some feedback and opinions. Yeah, this is I think like something that is relatively early battery tested but I do think it really makes sense in terms of like switching this intentbased system into the synchronization sort of system on the subscriptionbased model. Uh we're cooking it behind the scenes but like any early feedback is super super welcome. Uh the turn is is live on mainet and all of the components mentioned and now I'm afraid to happen. What happens if I will be scrolling down? Yeah, all of the core components are being deployed there. We're still working on the good docs to essentially now make sure where is it now? Yeah, whatever. So, all of the components those are individual smart contracts. Yeah, those are available. We're working on the docs. If you cannot find anything, please do reach out. uh we're going to be extending the docs and yeah so this is big opening yeah all of the modules are there this thing is being deployed live on mainets um but this is now at the moment the stage that we are like pre having the initial official SDK program for for builders uh so yeah amazing time I think to start getting involved early if you are interested and all then also like what's designed this SDK so that we know this is actually uh helpful once it's launched. Yeah. Learn more. Oh, that was the [Laughter] >> nice. >> Oh, thank you. >> Despite many difficulties, we managed to get to that. It's the end. Do we have questions from the audience? >> Question from the back, please. >> Question from the back. Thanks. Um you mentioned cryptographic proofs yet you did mention just a solver network. So are you are using just a regular solver network on the intentbased architecture or you're actually using some cryptographic proofs? >> Yeah. Uh yes and yes. Yeah. I'd be happy to answer your question with the slide that was missed and before blanked out and now it's back. Yeah. So the order comes in and the solvers are filling it in. Yeah. But then the uh verification that okay the user has requested put me 10 E to base. Yeah. And then the solver fulfills it. But then for the solver to get the reward on the source chain uh someone needs to verify that indeed the 10 if was posted in note 5. Uh this someone is the smart contract that is being deployed on turn network and uses this polymer verification event. So they do have this super nice handy interface that we kind of wrapped in a enable to be support the more exotic besides EVM architecture like uh bitcoins. Yeah. So we essentially check okay this event was it posted what is the proof the code all of the fields from the event was 10 10 yes okay uh this is very good the reward is being unlocked on the on the source chain this is not so good perhaps you know uh room for whatever slashing we do not support like for now it's either yeah binary was it good or was it not good if good you get the reward if not then change something happened but like for now we kind of see yeah that uh yeah it's either like all goes through or something is happening with the gases and like there is like a problem. Yeah that's why there is like a little bit of a introduction for me to kind of like uh with the synchronization layer to show that like okay we hit this problem with the internet based system. Yeah sometimes like something highware goes with gases and it's like you know it's not profitable anymore for uh solvers to to do it. >> I see. So user received the funds on the other side instantaneously, right? And only then the solver is being uh >> rewarded on the source at the end. >> Yeah. Yeah. And user already sits with for the successful path, user already sits with the money on the destination chain. >> I see. Uh what about rebalancing of the solvers themselves? Do you guys support that or is that something on the solvers behalf to to worry about? >> Yes and yes. Uh so they either could do manually or we do release but it's kind of we released it in in January I believe but it was not adopted very well in the sense that like we only have I think like a very selected number of uh solvers running the the AI version of the solver with T. Yeah. to the normal server manual rebalancing and people don't trust AI so far on our network the AI thing should does uh rebalancing automatically but the fully honest answer it is like na because it wasn't our main product we didn't fully like tested it as well as the regular solver >> well because I was thinking that if you do cryptographics proofs anyway cannot you use that as a base for rebalancing uh at the very end that that uh now so the rebalancing in that sense it kind of is the feedback loop. Yeah. So okay if I do want to rebalance yeah there is this AI uh systems that like okay I'm putting way too much money on optimism now it's not like internal rebalancing it's just like okay I need to go back to whatever uni chain now so I'm not only a passive solver I'm also an active solver as an AI solver and I'm putting the order to the other network >> so that the other yeah so then solver becomes a user kind of yeah uh and this in the same loop Cool. Thank you. >> I have a question about the subscription model. Are you seeing a demand for it or like why why do the subscription model? >> Yeah, because it interests me. >> Oh, was that the slide we missed as well? Okay. Okay. >> No, no, this the slide I wanted to showcase. Uh, yes and no. Yeah, we do see a demand in the sense like uh I do see it is being a problem in our system. uh mainly that there are like it really is yeah the this crosschain game kind of like the way I see it working it for like uh some time already it's just like okay usually it works yeah what happens for the anomalies kind of things yeah and there is the state networks yeah that are gases are like it's very interesting when I look at the charts of the gases it's like the the science in itself I think so for arbitum sometimes it's like a like a hill and then like and then it's not. Yeah. For uh Ethereum it's like once a week it happens that like the gas is usually like around one way and then once a week it shoots to like 200. Yeah. What happens then? I don't know but it usually follows with some price action. Yeah. Uh I'm not the uh good trader as you can see. So I don't know what to do with this fact but like this is what I observe on the back and there is this uh hypervm and it goes high wire. Yeah. So to me looking into the the gas charts and then obviously we receive like complaints from both like the users and the solvers themselves. Yeah. Like oh why did I pay so much for this transaction? You know I'm saying like you know like maybe you shouldn't have been executing now. Yeah. So this is what I'm trying to arrive on yeah to this like synchronization like to really have this subscription based model so that I can measure yeah on which chain what is it like on arbitum is it probably makes sense to just like put it like you know 50% higher than the lowest and then usually 90% of 98% of time you're going to be good and you're not going to be overpaying like usually it costs like 001 uh when there is a spike you pay $2 per transaction. Yeah. So, if you want to go like super cheap and super uh cost efficient, which we do, uh it makes sense for us to like not to overpric, you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And for me, it's just like an adoption hurdle because I hate paying subscriptions. I know we have the Netflix, but in web three, I've I've never kind of thought the idea I need to subscribe to something >> and I'm not sure how I feel about it. >> You don't feel good about this? >> No. Well, you can change my mind at some point. I do like this idea a lot to be honest. No, I do like it. Uh I don't know how to sell it to you though. I think the uh the dear in the data I think you know like this is like the idea that started rolling in since couple of weeks already. So I would love to you know uh if you guys don't don't boo me at the end to get invited the next year and present like the the full like graphs analysis like because I to me like I would like to understand yeah like where is this golden kind of level and how much in general like I'm saving money but yeah I'm not going to be 100% uptime which in 10 I it's never 100%. Yeah it's just like no one measures. So this is I guess like one more step to just okay look into this uh hole a little bit. Yeah, >> I think it's a good idea. I just want reliability. I want to know. I'm just I'm just autistic. I just >> Yeah. So you wanted that like you subscribe to events when you buy a Netflix subscription. Simply we we can work on the partnership you have. >> Amazing. Do we have any more questions? We still have some time but if not then thank you Mi very much and and on behalf of my