# Fireside Chat with Ben Jones and Robert Miller

- Speakers: [Ben Jones](https://streameth.org/speakers/ben-jones)
- Channel: [ETHGlobal](https://streameth.org/ethglobal)
- Date: 2025-10-09
- Duration: 22:48
- Topics: Optimism, Superchain, OP Stack, Ethereum, rollups, Layer 2, open source, closed source, block space, scalability, EVM, composability, fintech, app chains, OP Mainnet, governance, MEV, Maximal Extractable Value, transaction ordering, Flashbots, value capture, auctions, user outcomes, traditional finance, crypto, network effects, decentralization, blockchain, sequencer, validators, smart contracts, Pragma New York, ETHGlobal
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-0h_d-7T1xcI
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h_d-7T1xcI

## Description

In this fireside chat at Pragma New York, Ben Jones, Co-founder of Optimism, and Robert Miller, Steward at Flashbots, discuss the future of rollups, the OP Stack, and the Superchain—an open-source network of Ethereum-aligned Layer 2 chains. They highlight the importance of scaling Ethereum to meet global demand for block space, emphasizing open-source development as a competitive advantage over closed-source approaches.

The conversation explores the evolving role of rollups as fintech companies launch their own chains, the composability and flexibility of the EVM, and the potential for both app-specific and shared chains (like OP Mainnet) in the ecosystem. They delve into MEV (Maximal Extractable Value), its impact on transaction ordering, and the challenge of capturing value for application developers. The discussion concludes with the need to channel MEV into positive user outcomes, leveraging crypto’s experimental nature to outcompete traditional finance by delivering better results for users.

00:00 Introduction  
00:34 Event Hype and Opening Remarks  
00:56 What is Optimism and the Superchain?  
02:34 Open Source vs Closed Source in Crypto  
04:38 The Role of the OP Stack and Rollups  
06:11 Fintech Companies and Custom Chains  
07:38 Composability and Value of Chains  
09:01 Non-Obvious Use Cases for Chains  
10:17 Differentiation and Competition Among Chains  
11:54 Network Topology: App Chains vs Shared Chains  
13:37 Governance and Neutrality in Chain Deployment  
14:49 Introduction to MEV (Maximal Extractable Value)  
15:57 MEV’s Impact and Application Developer Challenges  
18:22 Monetizing MEV and Application Value Capture  
19:34 MEV: Negative Externalities and Opportunities  
20:53 Harnessing MEV for Better User Outcomes  
21:35 MEV in TradFi vs Crypto  
22:14 Auctions, User Outcomes, and Closing Remarks

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🇺🇸 *Pragma New York*
Pragma New York 2025 was held on August 14th at Vesper Events in Brooklyn, New York and was an in-person summit for builders and leaders in the web3 ecosystem. Watch the full Pragma New York YouTube Playlist here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXzKMXK2aHh5TRLdUXjnhUVfdbBtu6z2j

ETHGlobal's Pragma series takes place in cities around the world, and is designed to be a different kind of event. Pragma is a one-stage conference with founders-only on stage, bringing together a small group of curated attendees and speakers to discuss the future of web3 and reflect on the past. 

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✅ Follow Ben Jones
X: https://x.com/ben_chain

✅ Follow Optimism
X: https://x.com/optimism

✅ Follow ETHGlobal
X: https://x.com/ETHGlobal​
Warpcast: https://warpcast.com/ethglobal
Website: https://ethglobal.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCfF9ZO8Ug4xk_AJd4aeT5HA 

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