# Cultivating the Understory : Building Resilient DAOs by Songyi Lee | Devcon SEA

- Speakers: [Songyi Lee](https://streameth.org/speakers/songyi-lee)
- Channel: [Devcon](https://streameth.org/devcon)
- Date: 2025-10-09
- Duration: 26:10
- Topics: Science & Technology
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-274Uyrxv6uI
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=274Uyrxv6uI

## Description

Let's explore the overlooked "understory" of DAOs and teams: the human layer that forms the foundation of successful decentralized governance. While much attention is given to the technical and structural aspects of DAOs (the "overstory"), we'll dive into the cultural, social, and distributed leadership elements that are crucial for the longevity and effectiveness of anything we build.

Themes: DAO Ecology, Decentralized leadership, Coding culture DNA, Biomimicry for Governance

Speaker(s): Songyi Lee
Skill level: Beginner
Track: Coordination
Keywords: Coordination, DAO, Vision, resiliency

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Devcon SEA was held in Bangkok, Thailand on Nov 12 - Nov 15, 2024.
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## Transcript

[Music] [Music] thank you hi everybody hello wow it's so way more people than I thought when I walked in there were like five people thank you so much for coming on time awesome so uh my talk is actually about cultivating the underst story and how many of you guys are actually familiar with the concept of underst story here okay one oh how many of you guys actually never heard of a word under story before wow is that a is not a new is not a it's not an English word can someone tell me not sure okay yeah so under story is something that I DBL into like recently last few years uh as I really become a like a nature inspired uh entrepreneur that's what I kind of introduce myself uh and I'm like so into this plurality and The Duality and in and yang and Harmony and balance that's what I'm mostly focusing on this day and when I think about like design in community I always go back to Nature and I try to get inspiration and then now I found the concept of overstory and under story and I want to take you guys to a journey with me to the forest today and it's not um about I'm going to share something complet completely new to you it's more like I'm want to zoom out and then really share what you already know but rediscovering with me does it sounds good awesome cool yeah so in a healthy Forest what's really happening is actually um there's a underst story and an over story an overstory is uh what you see avol the ground which is like plants trees canopies and big big big things that is so visible that you always get distracted by but to have a healthy trees and healthy overstory you would need an underst story that is healthy as healthy as that without underst story you would not have a healthy overstory right so what's in the under story which is basically a network of roots and a fungi system and soil organism that is um so important but it's not visitable enough and it make all the life of possible and this underst story is not just a supporting role of the forest but it's actually the foundation so without that soil system there is no roots growing and then no K can canopy or no trees growing right so our Dow is actually metering those a forest system imagine our human coordination and our community and our team is also so hi distracting me um uh is a forest then we inow space right now obsessed with our visual structure like our token system our onchain governance and uh the Frameworks and toomics and the voting and everything that is uh not really a underst story when you look at it and it's so much of like okay I'm the tree I want Sun I want to be higher so that's all the energy that we are spending to grow over story but not taking care of the under story yeah so I am oh I went back so but if our Dow system and our community our team is like just like a forest imagine if we keep feeding only the overstory and it's just admiring without putting investing our energy and time into the under story what's going to happen and our success is purely depends on something that are far less visible that is in the under story so what is that so my name is SII uh I am from Korea living in different parts of the world uh I built one of the first Bitcoin SMS wallet in the 2012 13 and after that I build a did system and then uh last five years I've been ding into this community design governance design and building real resilient Community which is very hard uh I've been doing a lot of different experiment bringing Web Two uh and web 3 and together and also bringing ancient wisdom into the technology spaces so I call myself like crypto Anthropologist if that makes sense so that's who I am I just wanted to unpack today with you guys what is that under story and don't be surprised again it's not something new you already know what that is is actually oh sorry it's actually you you guys are the underst story I will tell you a little bit more what is that mean when I say you is actually your story it's actually your experience it's actually your belief system and it's a value system do you carry it's it's hidden assumption do you carry and it's a cultural background and cultural wisdom that you actually carry with you and that's the under story and how many of you guys here actually felt like I've heard by my team member fully okay one two great and how many of you guys have feel like you know what they actually know my story my journey all right but not still not my majority of it yeah and how many of you guys actually saw witness the team member that are absolutely great Builder but left the team because of the human issue more and how many of you guys have feel like I'm not really fully connected with the mission of organization unless the founders doesn't count if you're an employee you know like um you know what I kind of get it I'm doing this for money but I'm not really connected and convinced and is there's no communication whatsoever they don't feel like they don't treat me as a as a a person but more like a tool or have you ever experienced that before okay good yeah so I just wanted to show you guys not just a feeling of what's missing but what's really missing in the industry and this is the number uh a $359 billion is annually spent to solve the human conflict in the traditional organization and also 40% of almost every manager's time which is a two full day is spend on human coordination and also 213% of a brilliant key contributor of a salary a 200 233% of their salar is actually spending to replace them so there is a it's not just like a feeling or sad or you know I'm not hurt I'm not sin it's actually the organization spending so much time and energy and resource to solve that understory issue so if you're neglecting understory this is the money that you spent okay you say like oh you know what this is like traditional organization number but in Dow is actually worse right these challenges are intensify during during the Dow action and work because traditional organization at least they have some rule they have a clear contract and they have to deliver some certain thing and then they come to the office every day they work together they eat together they try something whatever they can do but still it takes so much resource to solve all this human issue and cultural issue in Dow our work across a time zone and a culture and the value system is all different and our governance tools are often just assuming the rationality of it but not touching emotional or context enough and also our focus on the trustless system like we focus so much over like building Trust system and we sometimes forget that what we are yawning for is actually the trust so that's what's happening in Dows and how are we addressing this you know I don't think I've never been in a dow that is have like a trillions whatever like so much of like resources and in the treasury that focusing on this as their first priority and what happened is they actually lose a lot of their trade treasuring money they even shut down because of human issue I've been in the space for like more than 12 years I've seen so many time teams broken including my own team teams break project break break and Community disappear because of the human issue it's not about technology it's not about uh uh a government framework right so you guys kind of get it where I'm heading right now yeah so to do that again we have to invest in the underst story of the forest we have to have like really healthy soil to make sure that our trees are growing well and it's um here we go yeah and what we are missing when we design community and Dows we miss often the person you know when when we talk about Dow decentralized autonomous organization I always put a first you know you we have to be autonomous human being to be connected with the decentralized network then you become an organization or organism whatever you want to call it without a focusing on individual autonomous being there is no decentralized network that is connected you know if you are not ready if you're not willing to take uh conflict if you're are not willing to openly communicate if you're are not willing to actually invest in yourself to become a better person so you can actually function in the very complex uh society which is Da uh it's really important that we actually pay attention to myself and to each other so your story your experience your worldview these are like when you pay attention um to those things and sometimes you know when we share our story people like oh it's not needed you you guys probably experienced even here when you walk into the conference the first thing people ask you is like what do you do it's not about who you are so what do you do what's your job are you relevant to me are you giving me something are are we transition a relationship uh if it's not valuable for me the people just walk away I mean it make sstem a little less but if you go like somewhere else it's like really like a jungle right it's like everybody like okay what do you have what do you have this is what I have like show me my card and if it doesn't connect we're done and we just wasting our time and energy but if you really sincerely care about that person in including your team member and then your Dow people to ask what's your story what's your experience why are you thinking that way that I cannot understand sometimes and just unpack those story it's not a distraction from the work and actually they are the foundation of your relationship and your work and your doubt so that's I kind of key message that I want to uh bring it up so then now I know okay your story and our individual story our individual value system is underst story then how can we cultivate that right and often time we are human that people think that we know what we're doing and how we interact with other human but sometimes it's really hard um and I have like a specific four nature related elements that I want to share with you guys um and this is a basically again using the undor uh narrative and then there is a four thing that I want to share with you guys and this is the order right like I mean not order to do what you do but like this is in order so uh thinking about like following the journey again the number one is actually a context so when you start uh conversation with your team member if you're a leader you want to create this is really safe space for everybody and then try to cultivate the under story of your team you have to understand the context is number one thing that you do in our nature system is like a living soil so everything begin with a context and it's a soil a component right and um when there is no soil there's nothing can grow and the soil mean being here is like your lived experience cultural wisdom personal motivation and then hidden assumption so you have to unpack that through uh anyhow with a conversation or there's a lot of different technique that you can use to unpack those things and number two when the soil is there the first networks form uh as a communication so once you the the soil is very rich and star fungus system you know like a melium system start forming together it's like a connecting the new neuron and also um kind of like a initial pathway for resource to connect and all these things you I hope you guys are following me with the visually uh and once that's done the information is uh start to flowing naturally and the trust in the network is start to arise and then invisible connection is formed that people start to feel comfortable and safe and then stories and ideas are cing up only once you connected well and have a good context and uh number three is a coordination so finally now we have a soil now we have a A fungi system and then what's happened is the root system start to grow and that's our coordination so with with a strong very healthy rich soil and then uh a strong communication Network that coordination you don't need to do anything people will start coordinate by themselves we don't need to tell them to do that so it will just form slowly and like a root system grows you know sometimes you find like a roots in the on the street they're like why why are you here you cannot ask them because they just do things what they supposed to do and that's what's going to happen in our Dow system so if you're a leadership just remember have a very clear context and then a context is building huge huge huge rich soil and then you just do a little bit of a sporing to build that A fungi system and then coordination will happen automatically without having so much effort but last thing it will be uh interesting take uh I'm I'm I love to hear your thought on this uh is a conflict I love conflict and and conflict is extremely important without conflict there is a no diversity and when I say conflict is actually you can take that as a resource once you have a good soil good fungi system good root system actually the conflict is maximizing your growth you know you know like sometimes we say trees when you give them uh a stress they actually produce a bigger uh fruit and even more sweeter fruits so imagine the confli is being that a great motivator and the driver for the evolution uh and I sometimes when I create a com not compling create a a community in D I call it a community of per fermentation so I just like a give a perment uh um a fermenting period so conflict just automatically arise without peration what happened there's no gimchi there's no souro it takes time but it's the order right so I just really encourage like for uh Community to really explore themselves where the conflict is and once you have a good soil a conflict is nothing to be afraid of but it's more to encouraged and then really using that to grow better so that's kind of my uh four different uh simple nature analogy and these are so simple that you can actually review and then revise um uh today at night when you go to bed like huh some says the four C's right context communication and coordinate and conflict just remember those four thing and I hope you using this for your for understory cultivation they'll be amazing and my last words um it's a thank you slide but I love being in a forest I really believe we are missing out a lot not tapping into our natureal analogy and the natureal wisdom so once you go out to the forest and when you walk into the forest you don't have to think much you just walk around and after that what do you feel you feel healed you feel like oh you know what actually now I feel way better but it's a completely effortless so one question that I have if we imagine creating our organization and community and Dows truly designed and operated by the Nature's wisdom and the pattern of nature what's going to happen I'm already experiencing with some of the community that we recently started with a complete nature analogy and then nature wisdom and people are saying you know what this is actually really helpful and I feel like a better person so how cool would that be if we create something uh that is so much like a forest that is a functioning for us so people walk into our community walk into our Dow when they leave when they are in the forest they say you know what being in this community actually saved my life or being in this community changed my life and being in this community really healed me I think it's possible and then Dow is no longer just the technology and voting system governance framework we can go beyond and we should be go beyond and I'm really really looking forward to build those um amazing nature uh inspired Dows with you all thank you so much should I be here that's awesome that's awesome son thank you so much for sharing all that knowledge with us and all the experience so we are going to start the Q&A round we have two questions uh here on the on the screen and then we'll we'll go with you so can a person be so bad for your soil that it's better to ask them to leave if they can't be helped to change great question whose question is this thank you yeah do you know soil also rot you know not all the soil is actually good soil if the soil is like getting bad you have to take it out and they live it somewhere and then you burn burn it or you do whatever you need to do and I oh the question is is can we go back to the question sorry yeah yeah and then um there is a something that you can do uh you know when the soil is actually not healthy that you can give them a different nutritions to make it better by using different compost materials whatever organism that that that the soil is required to do uh you can test the soil and you can actually find out what kind of nutrition the soil needs and you can provide that but the when soil is bed it's really rot then you have to take it out otherwise it will spread right so that's kind of my answer happy to cheat more and uh nice and we have another one are imperson connections necessary or just helpful for this cultural Connections in a DA I love this question thank you so much for reading my mind yes yes yes 100% % you need iners connection cuz what iners connection does it's not about just like oh you know what it's nice to have meal with you and it's just like haha ho ho sharing story you're actually sharing a space with them and you get to understand way better because you're not only using a two senses which is a writing and then sing but you're using all of your sense to understand the other person so it's a way better quality of conversation or communication that you will have so you need to have like if you're your D I strongly recommend at least every six month GA it together but not just for like football game or ping pong game or for drinking you know you have to have like a very clear agenda how you want to share that time because it's not easy to fly around and then meet together and spending long enough time to actually build this under story uh so this is another thing that I'm actually doing uh as a profession which is the EXP exp designing for the teams and endows so if you're really curious about how to build the underst story and then meaningful iners Gatherings I'm here to help so talk to me but I strongly recommend and I wish we have more time so I can share more about the key uh uh secret recipe uh I know there is some people who actually already participate in the inperson Gatherings that I was in can you raise your hands if you were part of anything that I designed before thank you so these people you can go ask them and how different it was awesome now we have a question here from the audience hi SII hi this is matali I wanted to ask you um and sorry if this is a little personal um when you reflect and go to your past has there been any moment of either conflict or Affliction in a relationship ship whether personal or professional which you feel now after embodying like um learnings from nature and learnings from the forest that you would deal with differently and if so then how yeah there's very good questions um I didn't see conflict as a resource from the beginning on yeah I was really afraid of dealing with a conflict as a Asian that's what we do we just like swallow it and then like pass pass pass uh but at some point I couldn't avoid anymore so what happened was that I was avoiding I was angry I was like try to do not to face it but like Angry is also part of like I think avoiding in some way because angry means that you express your feeling but you are not actually communicating you're just like shouting at one to the to the other person so when that happened and eventually actually that conflict the energy took me over and it put me down uh and uh that was a time that I kind of gave up and then I found another way then I start meditating I doing something so that was I would say it's a failed a conflict resolution but everybody probably have to go um not that deep but like in certain way that I'm you know I'm done with this and I'm just and you walk away you feel like oh you know what me walking away from this it make me feel so good and giving me peace peace and that's actually good walkway but if you feel like I truly truly actually don't want this and I actually avoid it and you have like something in your heart and I have like a relationship that I still haven't resolved and it's such a little thing and it's been like 10 years right it's like back of your mind all the time when you think of conflict um and when I think about like a nature analogy I think the compost thing is really important so when we attach to to the one particular relationship that everything has to be good all the time it means that we are not honoring the seasonality of it so we want this to be always spring and always summer but not uh understanding there is a winter coming so I think using that seasonal analy to understand the conflict and also so many other things it could be helpful so when when when the winter comes you know the trees lose their leaves and then they all become rotten and what happened in the spring is what is actually needed from the nutrition that was there whatever needs to come out come out in the spring and the composting is need to be done well uh so I would say uh conflict face it honor it accept it even if you're heart and there is a particular way that you can actually manage conflict in the group and the doubts and uh I'm happy to share our conflict resolution um kind of agreement every doubt that I created every committe I created we always making conflict conflict agreement or conflict resolution agreement because it's sometimes too late when the conflict Ares and there is no rule or no code of conduct it's really hard to in in place later so it's always good to have a complete resolution as a prevention so you can actually um uh uh when the bad act come after the confliction based on this you can actually make decision so those are the things also kind of nature analogy yeah without fixing it but like prepare yeah I hope that answers your question thank you that was beautiful thank you SII please put your hands together for S thank you so much C and C thank you