# Fireside Chat with Tom Zschach (SWIFT) and Aryan Sheikhalian (CMT Digital) at ETHConf

- Channel: [ETHGlobal](https://streameth.org/ethglobal)
- Date: 2026-07-09
- Duration: 20:52
- Topics: SWIFT, Tom Zschach, Aryan Sheikhalian, CMT Digital, ETHConf, SWIFT ledger, settlement, cross border payments, messaging network, neutral governance, trust, certainty, institutional finance, tokenization, deposit tokens, nostro vostra, correspondent banking, stablecoins, tokenized bonds, treasuries, DTCC, Euroclear, Clearstream, RWAs, CLS, FX settlement, multi-chain, Ethereum, public blockchains, transferable KYC, wallet eligibility, capital formation, ZK, Clarity Act, DeFi, Citi
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-8zRpToOB3Sk
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zRpToOB3Sk

## Description

In this fireside chat, Aryan Sheikhalian from CMT Digital sits down with Tom Zschach, who recently finished over six years as Chief Innovation Officer at SWIFT, to discuss settlement, trust, tokenization, and neutral governance. Aryan opens on crypto's pitch that it is faster and cheaper, and asks whether speed was ever what held institutions back. Tom explains that while speed and cost matter, the institutional space above all needs certainty: a treasurer sending millions or billions wants security and recourse, and will accept a transaction taking a few seconds longer if the outcome is guaranteed. He addresses what crypto misunderstands about SWIFT, clarifying that SWIFT is a messaging and coordination network that does not issue value, settle, or custody. It coordinates trust through standards, a rule book, and bilateral agreements, and he calls it the original DAO with human governance.

Tom explains the SWIFT ledger, a blockchain layered on top of the existing network with no mandates, whose first use case is banks making cross border payments between themselves using deposit tokens as an alternative to nostro vostra accounts. On trust, he frames the hard problem as a boundary issue: blockchains work well for things fully inside the network like swaps and staking, but get complicated when relying on external data or representing off-chain assets like stablecoin reserves. He predicts the most liquid, well understood markets like tokenized bonds and treasuries (DTCC targeting up to $100 trillion) will be tokenized first, while dispute prone assets like real estate come later. He warns against replicating incumbency and single chain control in Web3, favoring a multi-chain world with real competition even as Ethereum sits in pole position. Drawing on his time at CLS (which settles around $10 trillion daily across 18 currencies), he argues scaling institutional adoption requires regulatory clarity and credentials like KYC and wallet eligibility traveling with the asset across chains. He closes bullish that cross border value will move on public blockchains, citing Citi's $5.5 trillion projection.

00:00 Introduction
00:28 Meet CMT Digital and Tom Zschach
01:08 Was Speed Ever What Held Institutions Back
01:28 Why Institutions Need Certainty Above All
02:22 What the Crypto Crowd Misunderstands About SWIFT
03:06 SWIFT as a Messaging Network
03:26 What SWIFT Is Not: No Value, Settlement, or Custody
03:49 Adding Density and Endpoints With the SWIFT Ledger
04:05 SWIFT as a Coordination Network for Trust
04:41 What Blockchains Need to Replicate SWIFT
05:03 Why SWIFT and Blockchains Do Different Things
05:30 SWIFT as the Original DAO
05:56 How the SWIFT Ledger Works
06:25 Cross Border Payments With Deposit Tokens
06:51 What Trust Means Across TradFi and Crypto
07:33 Why External Dependencies Are the Hard Part
08:11 Stablecoins and the Boundary Issue
08:32 What Gets Tokenized First
09:02 Why Demand for Digital Money Is Clear
09:20 Liquid Markets: Bonds and Treasuries First
10:02 Why Dispute Prone Assets Come Later
10:45 SWIFT as the First DAO Revisited
11:22 Incumbency on Blockchain Rails
11:43 Why a Single Chain Undermines Neutrality
12:14 Why a Multi-Chain World Is Better
12:49 Room for More Open Governance
13:10 Leveling the Playing Field With DeFi
13:39 Tokenization Primitives Like Transferable KYC
14:31 Why He Calls It Finance, Not TradFi
14:49 Tokenization Transforming Capital Formation
15:18 Why Transformation Takes Time
15:45 What Convinced Him From Inside the Incumbent
16:07 CLS and $10 Trillion Daily FX Settlement
16:32 Why FX Settlement Was an Early Blockchain Use Case
17:25 Getting Banks Hooked Into Digital Assets
17:47 The Missing Pieces for Institutional Scale
18:21 Why Scale Breaks Across Venue and Chain
18:51 Why Credentials Must Travel With the Asset
19:12 ZK and Solving
19:35 Five Years Out: Value on Public Blockchains
20:09 Citi's $5.5 Trillion Projection
20:42 Closing

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