# The Future of Markets | DC Fintech Week 2025

- Channel: [DC Fintech Week](https://streameth.org/dc-fintech-week)
- Date: 2025-12-21
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-DR9TLnDQDCA
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR9TLnDQDCA

## Transcript

We are going to follow up on such an interesting conversation getting through the future of markets. And by markets in this conversation we're going to get deal with financial markets, labor markets, markets, markets, market infrastructure, and even money with the best in the business and people who are on the front lines of dealing with these questions every day. Lucas Dante, Bushra, and Karen, why don't you give your name, rank, serial number for everyone and then we can jump right into it. Want me to start? >> Yeah, go for it. All right, well thanks for having me. Lucas Moskowitz, I'm the general counsel of Robinhood. I've been there for about 5 years. Before that was in and out of government and spent many years at the SEC including as the agency's chief of staff under Chairman Jay Clayton. Dante. All right. Hello everyone, I'm Dante Disparte. I'm the chief strategy officer and head of global policy at Circle. The one-liner is I've been uploading the US dollar onto the internet for some years now. Excellent. Good morning everyone. My name is Bushra Darwazah. I'm a managing director at Galaxy Digital where I run principal trading and investment strategies. In a nutshell, think about optimizing for the company's balance sheet. Karen. Hello, last but not least I hope. I'm Karen Kimbrough, chief economist at LinkedIn. I get to look at over a billion members worldwide, what jobs they have, what employers are looking for, and it's honestly one of the best jobs on the planet. Well, you certainly have some data that I think everybody in the world really wants to to know and and get a hold of particularly at this moment. But Lucas, I I want to start with you. We had heard from Brad Garlinghouse about the Genslerian era. You know, one of the questions that I'd asked him and and it was I think he was he thought it was an interesting question was you know, whether or not he felt that retail investors were a positive thing in in in in markets particularly would given this kind of division and tension between sort of the institutional side and and the retail side. How have you seen from your vantage point over at Robinhood, how have you seen retail markets evolve? And maybe I can also ask you the same question about retail investors. So, you know, well, you know, what exactly should be their place in in financial markets and investing and even price discovery? It's a spicy first question. >> Yeah, I know. I love this crowd. And no one's shy. This is going to be a good good group. Uh I think we've seen a revolution in retail investing uh over the last 5 6 years and I think it's unequivocally a good thing. It's a unequivocally a good thing for the investors themselves, for the markets, capital markets in the US, and for our economy, right? You think about it, we have 67-ish percent, I think, uh US households invested in the stock market. Nobody else in the world has anything close to that. It's one of the reasons why our markets are the best in the world and everyone wants to uh uh emulate us. And then you look at uh the benefits for the retail investor, right? Robinhood alone has close to 26 million, I think around 26 million uh retail investors who have funded an account, right? So, those folks are all in the market. They're doing various things, but largely they're investing in you know, uh public good traded securities and uh some obviously do crypto and other other products. Uh but what's going to happen here and you've seen, you know, in in the the initial kind of explosion of of uh Robinhood and others onto the scene uh you know, several years ago and and the influx of retail coming into the market as you had a much younger customer base, more diverse than the incumbent firms. About half of our investors are first-time investors and you know, you saw obviously a ton of activity in in 2020 and 2021 and and beyond and I think there was a the to that and that reaction was twofold. The first was okay, this isn't going to last, right? Well, that's wrong. It's lasted and I'll talk about that more in a second. And the other reaction was it scared people. It scared people in Washington. It scared people in the industry and there was a backlash from from regulators on that. But the reality is that these people are staying in the market. Most of them we see exhibit buy and hold behavior. They're not doing wild things on our platform or other platforms. And if they stay in the market long-term, which we think and hope they will and we're obviously building our products to match that desire and that need for these customers, then they're going to do quite well. The US stock market is is probably history's greatest source of wealth creation and so that's a very good thing for everyone. I read an article in the journal a couple of days ago and they had some they had some anecdotes from some retail investors and and one gentleman said, "I don't have to live paycheck to paycheck anymore because of the investing I've been able to do on on these mobile-driven platforms." And that's an amazing thing. Of course, there are many stories out there. Some maybe you know, about customers losing money, but by and large folks are taking advantage of this for the good. Uh you you talked a little bit about those those challenges and so I want to go to Dante to even draw a couple of analogies. Uh Uh I don't think there's anyone actually who's more responsible for for the genius act getting it over the line and pushing that that that conversation forward and that legislation forward than than you. When you think about that journey, on the one hand where where we have a conversation about the evolution of of markets from the retailization of markets or the re-retailization of markets, and now we have sort of a a new rethinking of of money and getting that a kind of legislative wrapper around to reflect that change. Like what was that journey like? And and and do you see any analogies as well in in what you see in other areas of fintech? Yeah. I mean, first of all, it's a great question. The um uh it took me riding on the new Acela train to New York uh to come up with my new one-liner on money, which is you can't put new money on old rails. Because I'm not going to lie, the trip up to New York on the new Acela train betrayed the fact that the rails are still old. And so, unsurprisingly, that trip felt bumpy, and the train actually broke down and needed to be rebooted twice. Um which is in some ways a real analogy of the money system and the money movement system we have in the United States of America. Um so, a fateful 7 years ago, a fateful little project called Libra, I was one of the protagonists of that project, and despite a history in the public domain debating against the the sins of Big Tech, if you read anything I had written about it, I wasn't a fan nor a friend. But what I had to remind my my my friends and colleagues and family around the world is that I loved financial inclusion more than people hated Facebook. Uh and that that was what got me summoned to every single hearing ever since, and then finally culminates, of course, with the GENIUS Act, which is a very rare example. Twice in my career, I feel like I've united Washington, once in its hatred of that project, and then second, not alone, but obviously with the industry and many others, the second time, of course, in the desire to regulate payment stablecoins as the American answer to winning the digital currency space race. And so, the other quote I would give, Chris, more germane to this panel, is you can't have the economy of the future unless you have the money of the future. And and when you think about money as it stands today, unevolved, our entire financial system and our entire global economy has hit points of diminishing returns. It's not really your money if you have to ask someone to to to spend it and you have to pay someone to hold it for you. And so the emergence of fully regulated, audited, transparent stablecoins allows us to conceive of things that wouldn't be possible. Robinhood is a great example, but I'm sure many others you know who will who will enjoy the stage here at DC Fintech Week um can really start to see the unlock that this introduces. The payments environment is encumbered by walled gardens. Inside the walled garden you get fast, cheap payments, but most of that is just the veneer of speed. What stablecoins have introduced is actual speed at at scale around the planet. So USDC 7 years ago, zero. Today, close to over 76 billion dollars in circulation. We process, you know, 42 trillion dollars in cumulative activity over that same 7-year period, but the key is that we've done so where any basic internet-connected device is a is a compliant payment endpoint. That is a total breakthrough in payments. The piece that then relates to modernizing markets and you saw a recent communique from the CFTC on this point. Secretary Bessant recently met with the Chancellor of the Exchequer Rachel Reeves and announced an initiative on on modernizing markets between the United Kingdom and the US. Really important initiatives. But one of those what what the communique with the CFTC and Acting Commissioner Pham produces is this notion of being able to use this innovation, which has historically been payments or relegated by some as merely a poker chip in a crypto casino, can now be used as collateral in capital markets. And therein you can envision a financial system that doesn't take bank holidays. You could you could take advantage of the programmability and composability of fully reserved internet money as the basic foundational building block for money that works for you as opposed to you working for your money. Now, if if that is wrong, I'm totally tech agnostic. I don't I you know you know if that if that is wrong, I don't want to be right. It is one way to look at it because I think that innovation has to be uniquely stamped with the seal of American legal approval. And if we do that right, we win the digital currency space race. If we fail, we're not going to like what the world will look like a decade from today when alternative payment systems and alternative currencies have filled that void. So, Bushra, it welcome to DC Fintech Week. You know, you're you're one of the I don't want to say shadowy. I mean, that sounds so ominous, but you're one of those quiet people, you know, you know, leading trading over at Galaxy, but I I think it's great to have you on this panel because in a way you're a consumer of these technology changes that that ultimately you you use them, you see them. You embrace them. You maybe you laugh at some of them, I don't know. But but maybe you can give us a a sense from your experience, from your views from from the trading floors as an institutional actor. You know, how are you viewing the rising tide of technology infrastructure and also asset classes and how is this impacting someone who's I I don't know. I think of it like with a joystick or something, you know, the day trading or something. But how does it impact your your your job? Well, thanks for taking me out of the shadows today. >> Thank you. You're welcome. >> to meet you all of you today. Um I wanted to take you guys just a little bit of take a step back. Um what does, you know, I started my career trading at Goldman Sachs um in in the rates derivatives desk and that was right around the financial crisis. We've come a long way. Um you took us back to seven years. Bitcoin white paper 2008. So, pretty much around the same time. Our jobs were more manual, intuitive. Like the trader job back in the day would be I have an idea, I'll put that into a position and your tools were pretty much your internal spreadsheets, your Bloomberg terminal, and if you're lucky, internal models. At the time actually we were lucky at Goldman we had a centralized risk system that could actually show us the risk at a firm level, which helped us a lot during financial crisis. Fast forward to today, my job remains the same, but the tools are completely different. Um, thanks to all of you here uh working on all these things to improve our lives, and I would add slap AI into it. I still wake up every day very early, and I need to look at a macro story, and from that analyzed what could be a good trade to put on a risk position to have in our books. The way we do that now is much faster. We have better data. We have more tools, and AI on top of it is making our lives much easier. Um, I'll just give you a specific example in rates. Um, we are optimizing for a convexity, volatility to comply with Basel III. Uh, in foreign exchange markets we can actually toggle across stream and venues to optimize for liquidity, especially in fragmented markets. In crypto, where a market that trades 24/7, we have the ability to go over trading venues, optimize for those, follow on chain activity. Those things were not what we were doing in 2008, 2009. Uh, by no means. Um, the regulatory landscape has changed dramatically as well. And our job as traders in is no longer just, you know, the typical idea that you have that trader risk taker only. I would tend to call us now risk engineers. Uh, we have to optimize for capital requirements, collateral, and risk positions. So, this new the trader investor job is no longer just an intuitive have a good judgment experimented person. It's a rather risk engineer that complies with a lot of transparency rule that has to optimize for balance sheet and capital structures to actually be a good trader at the end of the day. Different jobs, same words, and our job couldn't be different since last 15 years. Okay, great. And and and uh I'll I'll ask you a little bit about your job and about jobs in general cuz you know I have to ask like, "So, how's the economy?" Uh you know, wouldn't mind a little bit of data about that Karen. We know you guys have your fingerprints and fingertips on all kinds of interesting sort of labor data. Um but I but I actually I I I I do want to ask a sort of two-sided question. Number one, you know, how has your job transformed at all from technology changes? Just as an economist, uh much less than an economist who's working on a technology platform. Number one. And then Yeah, okay. Anything you can tell us about the economy just in general is All right. Well, I will say I spent all summer looking at non-farm payrolls going, "Gosh, I don't see that hiring in our data." So, the revisions made me feel better. I'm probably the only person who was like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, it is as bad as I what I saw at LinkedIn." Um we are definitely in a hiring recession. We're not in an economic recession, but we are in a hiring recession and we've been in one for over a year. Um so, yeah, the labor market's stable if you have a job, but it's very fragile. It's precarious. Um if you don't have a job, it's tough to break into. That's the headline for the economy. Um So, what I would say is um and this maybe gets back to what I was saying, what we're seeing is that roles are changing really rapidly. Um we think that you know, eight to nine out of 10 jobs on our platform, and there are millions of jobs on our platform, are going to be radically different by 2030. And it's not that the title necessarily will change, although there are new titles coming on, new roles, but mostly it's the kind of tools you use and the skills you need to have. So, an example on my team is I have a bunch of computer scientists, economists, data scientists. And what used to take maybe 1 to 2 weeks of coding, checking the code, running it, seeing it, now takes 3 hours. So, we spend more time on idea generation. We spend more time thinking about, well, what could we say with our data about whatever, whether it's new entrants and how they're doing, older workers, or particular industry, and less time actually rewriting the code or working on the code. We just check it and then we keep moving. We have AI working on it for us. So, my job's already changing, um which means I have to upskill. And I'll just tell you one uh fun fact that we see in our data. So, every year we make a list of like, what are the top fastest growing new tech skills. And, you know, 2 years ago it was LLMs. 2 years ago it was all AI. Before then it was like, oh, you need to know whatever, Python and Spark and whatever, Scala, Java, blah blah blah. And then about 2, 3 years ago it became all AI skills that were the fastest growing skills. So, large language models and um of that sort. Now, this year it's all AI agents. It's personalized GPTs. It's It's just evolving. The skills are evolving really rapidly. So, the job titles are often the same, but the skills underlying these jobs are different. And what I'll leave you >> the requirements or these the people who are applying for the job? >> Both. So, if we're talking about the financial industry, that's one of the industries that's uh I'll say upskilling the most, where people who realize they want to keep and hold their job are rapidly changing the skills they have through learning, through courses, through different skills on their profile. So, the finance industry is at the tip of the spear with the tech industry in terms of acquiring these AI skills, but in terms of what jobs are out there, uh there are three times the growth in jobs for AI. How do I put this in an easy way? If if the growth in AI jobs is growing three times as fast as any other job. So, if it's a job that requires AI skills or AI literacy, it's those jobs are growing three times as fast in terms of what employers are looking for. Employers want AI-skilled or AI-literate talent. They know they can't hire it fast enough, and it's super expensive because that talent is like a micro fraction of the population. So, they know they need to look for those skills or upskill their own people, and I'll stop there. So, what I'm hearing is is uh employers, private market participants, particularly in financial markets, want to have people who have those skills. It seems that there are two interpretations of that as you think about a company like Robinhood. Uh on the one hand, you may want people who have those skills to be able to use new technology and emerging technology. Could also be that you want those people to be able to build new technology in its in its own right. Um Two-part question. I'm a law professor. That's what we do. Number one, uh from Robinhood's perspective, from your approach, like what do you see one more than the other? And then number two, uh what should the regulators be doing in terms of their uh sort of technology stack? Yeah, we're in this period of massive innovation, AI being the you know, most salient, but there are a lots of other things going on. It's not just AI. Um it's it's a little bit of chicken and egg, like who is driving this type of innovation, right? Is it the customer saying, "Hey, we want this, you know, product or this service?" Or is it the firm saying, "Look, how do we use AI to provide, you know, uh a new experience to customers that they've never seen before?" And And the reality is it's both, right? I mean, I talked a little bit about our customer base, right? It's younger, it's very tech-savvy. Um these folks want easy access to the markets, they want it to be very cheap, and they want it to be uh new, and they want to have variety in that, right? So, you know, we started as a traditional brokerage, right? We put uh stock trading and investing on a on an app and brought the fees in terms of commissions and account minimums down to zero, right? But now you fast forward 5 years, you can go on Robinhood and do prediction markets. And prediction markets are one of our fastest growing business. You can um, you know, you can trade the Fed funds rate. Um, you can trade, you know, uh an entertainment event. Um, you can trade other economic events. You can right now trade sports, and that's a uh big thing that's uh going on in in, you know, state versus federal right now. Um, so, you know, the reality is the customers, I think, um by and large are are generally demanding uh you know, more uh more AI, you know, more products and services that are new and innovative and take advantage of technology, but we're also hiring, you know, trying to get the best talent in terms of AI and and in other areas to make sure we can think ahead, right? I mean, I don't know if the I don't know if customers really were were saying, "Hey, I would love prediction markets." Right? >> But but but but what does that mean like in reality? Because even if you introduce like one thing that Dante's obviously seen over his career is something that you see consistently, if the velocity of the introduction of the new product is at a pace that the regulators either A don't understand or B don't even have the infrastructure to be able to accommodate. You know, there's like a disconnect. So, even as you're moving forward, and even if you get the demand from customers, and even if you get more opportunities for portfolio diversification and the like, like how do you like what should the regulator what kinds of expectations would you have of regulators in terms of their ability to accommodate the velocity of technological innovation? Yeah, I mean, look, there has to be a right? We didn't strike the right balance under the Biden administration. We had a massive backlash and we were we were innovating, other firms were innovating, cryptos obviously growing and the response that was we had to tamp this down, right? And we got rules like the predictive data analytics rule out of the SEC. >> Yeah, that was anyone follow that? Yeah. That that was pretty I was it was the dumbest rule I've ever read in in that has ever come out of the federal government and I've been doing this for a long time and having sat in that seat, it was the worst. It would have basically eliminated the use of technology when interacting with your customer unless you want to be a fiduciary in every single communication you make, which is unrealistic. So, that that was just the the worst reaction. Now, of course, it's shifted and you know, we wanted to shift in a responsible way, right? We we want need regulators to you know, to be able to understand this and and that's incumbent on the industry. You can't expect you know, regulators have been around since the 30s or you know, you know, even earlier to to fully be able to understand everything that's happening at this rapid pace. And so, education's part of it. They're obviously trying to get talent in to understand this. But, the other part of it is that striking that balance and you got to you got to be able to allow firms to innovate. The rules are flexible and there will be adjustments that need to be made. That said, you don't have to get rid of the entire rulebook. So, okay, or create new ones. Dante, that's where you come in, right? I mean, you literally have been there on the front lines. Your still Circle is every single time I I check, even though I sometimes avoid crypto Twitter, you know, like there's always something new coming out on LinkedIn, Twitter, social media, some kind of new product. I mean, how do how what kind of regulatory stack works to accommodate that velocity of innovation? I mean, yeah, I mean, well, for one, the genius act, going back to it again, is important because it it reconciles what in our country is unique. The United States is unique in all of the advanced advanced economies in not having a national payment systems charter. And so payments companies like us and all of our peers, you know, Visa, Apple Pay, PayPal, the lot of them, are regulated at the state level. But but the challenge and the competitiveness gap is that when you're competing at the type of scale that we're competing where you literally have nation-state actors trying to get away from the long arm of the US dollar or the long arm of the American banking system. Um, then you do need the imprimatur of federal rules uh which we now have with the Genius Act. So the Genius Act has reconciled that Fintech constitutional crisis and Fintech federalism question. But but in an ideal world it would also do so in a technology neutral way. If there's one broad policy failure, I think the entire world has labored under when it comes to blockchain and Fintech and every other novel technology is that we have failed the technology neutrality test. Regulators do a good good thing of speaking of activity based risk adjusted rules, but on tech neutrality we have woefully failed. And and if you if you look to today and you look at the categories that have succeeded very well, I think there's two really big interesting technologies right now. It's AI and stable coins. Um, but not all stable coins are created equal and what we clearly need is a category of stable coins either under the Genius Act or frameworks around the world that would pass the very basic Jerry Maguire test, show me the money. And you no longer have to rely on someone's Twitter account for promissory statements of whether or not this was a product that is redeemable and plugged into the banking system. I think that's exactly what we now have in front of us and that ought to create in my view much more accessible, much more um novel forms of money and money movement that will effectively allow people to do more with less. I mean that that's the trade-off I think implied in a lot of the data, implied in the conversations, is that um to make money presumes you have money in the first place in our capital markets. And so, we now have a pathway in which we could make a broader uh form of economic inclusion, economic participation, but the bottom rung of that ladder of economic mobility is payments. Yeah, it it was interesting. We had Travis Hill earlier, and I said, you know, I told him, "When you look at some of the issues he's thinking about, yeah, de novo banking licenses, when you uh think about just getting more banking institutions available, and then you go to the SEC, and you're you're looking at the drop-off of IPOs, and trying to figure out, how do you how do you increase um IPOs and capital access?" That financial inclusion to capital access question, there's a little bit of a spectrum. It seems like all of the different agencies are grappling with that. Um Bushra, okay. So, uh you are an institutional trading maestro. Uh you're listening to some of the other colleagues to your colleagues here on this panel. Uh we're talking about uh blockchain, crypto, new trading platforms. We're talking about AI. Okay, so which which one's going to be the most important for your role, but also risk management? And I'll And I'll want to preface this by saying, I was shocked um uh when I was listening to Larry Fink yesterday on CNBC. He talked to him about a half hour, and I would have thought that the vast majority of his conversation would have been about gen AI, actually. I I I would have I would assumed it. But instead, uh I mean, the bulk of his conversation was about tokenization of stocks, tokenization of real of real-world assets, you know, crypto, stablecoins, and the like. There's a whole panoply of different uh sort of innovations. What's going to impact your job the most, you think, a couple years from now? Well, first, thank you guys for all the work you've been doing. Because this is probably the first time, and to double-click on Larry Fink's point, this is the first time actually we're seeing a real conversions of blockchain, AI, and market infrastructure. This is the first time. Just start with the blockchain side and to clarify that a little bit more to why actually, you know, one of the biggest institution asset manager in the world is, you know, double clicking on tokenization. Um Tokenizing assets would change the way we settle and fund trades. In the most liquid market in the world, that's a huge transformation. Imagine being able to post treasuries, tokenize treasuries, 24/7 on basically trades margining on the margining side. You're changed completely the repo and the whole derivatives margining story. And those are the biggest, most liquid markets in the world. So, Larry Fink has a reason why he's, you know, been a big proponent of the tokenization story. And what that means for institutional traders, you have much less friction, much shorter settlement, and all of a sudden you have this pool of collateral that's fungible, ubiquitous, and global. And here you go. You globalized basically your your equity and rates and FX market basically to that extent. Uh derivatives markets are much bigger than the actual underlying themselves, and this is a huge change in the way we do basically our job. So, that is one of the biggest innovations if done, blockchain technology will be huge changer in finance. Add an AI to it. Um today actually AI models can start go over basically balance sheets. They can read central bank tones. Um they can do basically a lot of things that we're doing. So, and then you bring the question so you become an obsolete as a trader. Absolutely not because our job today now becomes also has changed. I have to be a system designer where I'm given input and putting guardrails and knowing when I intervene as a human and teaching basically these with all my experience these new AI models that are coming in to help us basically augment our job. I'm sure a lot of you guys have heard of the 10X engineers. I would call it the 10X traders. To not P&L wise because it's pretty hard markets tend to be a little bit more efficient, you know, you just need to be right 51% of the time to make money in our job. However, this is a very big game changer. So, you're changing the market infrastructure itself by adding the tokenized, you know, story. You have much better tools where you're no longer just a risk taker, you are building the networks yourself. And the third part crypto trades 24/7. So, a lot of people in my family actually sometimes make fun of me. My sleep schedule tends to be very interesting. With trading traditional markets on one side where you have the words open and close and crypto that trades 24/7 and people so at at some point we're going to have a convergence of the two. We already have futures that are trading pre and post markets in the traditional markets. But I know that exchanges are basically exploring how they can move to that 24/7 cadence and all of a sudden we won't talk about crypto and traditional finance anymore. We'll just talk about one global market that's sitting on one network where our jobs here or my job I guess here on this panel becomes a systems engineer that needs to be able to have its judgment and you know, market view, etc. That's fine. I'm a risk taker, but I'm also participant in building this network of liquidity that's becoming much more global. So there's a breakout session going on right now on like, you know, fraud prevention and and with the financial technology association and and they're talking a little bit about what at least had brought up earlier. But when you think about and they're talking about the upskilling of of different jobs also on the financial regulatory side and and innovation there. What I find really interesting though about what you're saying and I had mentioned earlier that I've been traveling a lot and you know, whether or not it be in the Middle East, whether or not it be in South America, there's the same question of saying, "Look, the United States has made a choice to start to change its its pipes." And your question is, "Do you want your pipes to be interoperable with the pipes in in the United States?" Uh um 20 seconds cuz I I said the question for Karen like, do you think you're going to really get to interoperable like does it require the entire world to make that shift or is it just enough if it comes out of our capital market due to our size and liquidity? Exchanges, the biggest exchanges are looking into it um and the banks are starting to look into it as well. And you either jump on the bandwagon or you're left behind. I I don't think the market has given us a choice. People have to jump on the bandwagon as long as we are within the regulations that we have in front of us. Having the rails on the back of it and working on them is inevitable at this point. When a trader says jump on the band bandwagon, no, I'm sorry. It's like this is I'm going to trade a joke. Okay, Karen. Okay, we only have like a minute left, but you know, when you look at and you've heard all these different kinds of ideas and and questions of digital transformation. Um what does that mean or and I don't know if you can provide any kind of granularity. I mean, does crypto pop up on your on your radar screen in terms of And and has there been like a Oh, crypto's dead. Oh, crypto's here. Crypto's great. Crypto's like, okay, now it's on chain. I mean, like what does the labor market look like for on-chain finance? Do you see anything tracking what what Boosher is saying? >> So, this is the question I get from everybody. It's like, okay, what are the hot jobs, you know, including from my kids. What should I study? Um look, let me say two things. One is last year we looked at all the people just in the United States who took a job. So, not everybody on our platform, which is like 220 million people, but just the ones who changed jobs. Of those people in the United States who changed jobs last year, 20% of them took a role that did not exist in the year 2000. It was just a title that just really did not exist. It was minuscule. So, that's 25-year look back, already massive change. What are we seeing right now? Well, in finance, I would say more disruption in risk space, uh trading, compliance, a lot of disruption in insurance. But if you are financial engineer, a trader, there's still appetite for you. She'll always have a job. It's clear. She's not going to not. Um but in crypto, yeah, one of the fastest growing skills. And I'll just say this, I'll leave you with one other fact. Um right now we're seeing this enormously rapid rise in people trying to gain AI literacy, the ability to use AI tools in whatever job they have because they know if not, they're at risk of being obsolete. Yeah, well, we are about to transition into a demo and a kind of a TED Talk 101 plus demonstration on AI and agentic financial services with Mickey Iqbal, but before we do, I want to thank this this panel, having this breadth of experience on all of these different aspects of finance markets great. So, thank you very much and we'll get to our demo.