# Inclusion List Inevitable Tradeoffs by Terence | Devcon SEA

- Channel: [Devcon](https://streameth.org/devcon)
- Date: 2025-10-09
- Duration: 07:07
- Topics: Science & Technology
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-GKBV62BamGo
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKBV62BamGo

## Description

Inclusion lists have been a popular topic over the years, with various versions emerging, such as EIP-7547 and FOCIL. All these inclusion lists are constrained by a common trade-off: the Ethereum slot time. This talk explores the details of this trade-off and examines whether there is a "best" solution given these constraints.

Speaker(s): Terence
Skill level: Beginner
Track: Cryptoeconomics
Keywords: Decentralization Improvements, Censorship Resistance, inclusivity, lists

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## Transcript

[Music] yeah so um this one is more again on inclusion this and it's more on the engineering side that as someone that has been um focusing on inclusion this over the last year and I also um started looking at fossil more and more and this is where my perspective in terms of engineering challenge with regards to inclusion this so today where we are right so today we have ethereum slot and each slot is 12 seconds and what are the constraint within the slot so as a proposer I want to propose a block and I will hate to have my block gets reor and that's not nice so I want to propose uh my block on the strongest head that's possible right and after I propose a block everyone else on the network that's running a Noe will verify the block and compute what is the head and as a test their job is to attest to the head of the block so this is where the four Choice follows if you use lmd ghost and then as a aggregator as optional you Aggregate attestations and then the proposal essentially follows the votes for the next slot and then it builds on top of the head right and then because of timing game you can see there is a phenomenon that today the attested cut up is at 4 seconds so basically everything is pushed towards the 4 second Mark and that's kind of the equilibrium right now that everything happens between 3 to 4 seconds and then between 4 to 12 seconds of nothing typically happens unless you are the net slot proposer you're this transactions and your building block so where does inclusion this fit in into this picture so here I'm speaking in terms of fossil so fossil is um a EIP um 7805 I believe but surgery if you don't know what fossil is so fossil is probably the best inclusion this design that I have seen so far that is mostly bully proof in my opinion and then it has the same slot property and then so what foso does essentially is that it essentially allows a secondary runs of proposers that are allowed to send their local block and then such that it Con strain the next slot proposal essentially so where does that leave us in the picture right so because of that we have to essentially add this proposal in the middle of the 12 slots that means that as a proposer for the inclusion this I have to essentially verify the block beforehand such that I want to essentially propose the best inclusion this effort right and then and then as a constraint the next slot Builder or the proposer I have to essentially pack the inclusion list into the block and then if I Mis inclusion this then I may miss my block and and also as a tester I want to make sure that the block satisfi the inclusion this so there are three more constraints as a builder as a proposer as an tester which I cover here so where are some parameters that we can play in terms of trade off so for example how big is the size of of how big is is the size of an inclusion disc right if the inclusion this size is so small that it may not be useful but inclusion this size is too big then you open up Network for do concern what is the size of the inclusion this committee because we want committee size to be reasonable but then but then if the size is too big again you open up Network do concern and then how much overlapping are there within the inclusion this and then what is the satisfactory rule right so as a proposal for the next slot as a tester I'm verifying the block like what like basically how much of the inclusion this the proposal has to satisfy for the block block to be validated so what are the concerns so first concern I think is the increase of bandwidth and Compu for node like depends on how big inclusion this size is and then then again the second concern is that proposer like how much time do I have to build the blog and then as a tester how much time do I have to verify the blog so here are some open questions for us to study if we're interested in this inclusion space like how compatible it this with the future road map such as P does such as such as epbs how does inclusion this work with account abstraction and then like how can we add blob transactions into the inclusion list such that it doesn't open up those concerns and then how can we better utilize local manoo for inclusion this maybe we can just essentially send the transaction hash instead of sending the food transactions finally like will there be a aop protocol market for inclusion this and it's something that's we need to study more so yeah if you're interested to contribute definitely hit up Julian and hit up me and then yeah definitely I'm I'm definitely very excited about this inclusion this design space thank you thank you so now we have time for a few Q&A please raise your hand if you have any question okay okay no questions okay it seems oh there's a question here um yeah super interesting I had a question so I don't know if you can answer this but um in any capacity are you thinking about doing fossil or inclusion list for l2s like arbitrum or yeah and how does that different from what's in the EIP and what could be on Main net right so there two today is most of the layer two or all of the layer two today they have just one sequencer right so the sequencer definitely have a lot of power say today if you want to force your transactions in there like if sequencer ignores you there's nothing you can do but then there's a lot of people say well you can force transaction through layer one but that's also not nice because you have to wait like 24 hours right but then like again I think like decentralized sequencer can of sset if you assume honest majority so I would say the space in terms of sensorship resistance on Layer Two it's is definitely very different on layer one because on Layer Two you can essentially having like one million validators you could just have like 10 sequencers and then trust like honest majority and then as long as you assume some of them are honest and they will they like basically basically they have to include your transactions any other question okay well thank you very much for your talk uh please give some Applause to Terence