# Web3PrivacyNow - Activating 100M people in privacy│Mykola Siusko│ETHDam 2024

- Channel: [CryptoCanal](https://streameth.org/cryptocanal)
- Date: 2024-10-07
- Duration: 26:20
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-RtsSywUi7Bo
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RtsSywUi7Bo

## Description

Join Mykola Siusko from Web3PrivacyNow for a talk "Activating 100M people in privacy" at ETHDam 2024. Privacy market lacks coordination, because communities are siloed, hardcore privacy is technically complex & privacy leaders aren't accessible.  Privacy personas will help to articulate role-models that millions could take & activate solidarity within the market. Scaling it to 100M people enjoying privacy.
https://twitter.com/nicksvyaznoy https://twitter.com/web3privacy https://web3privacy.info/

James Campbell - MC of ETHDam, Hackathon Organiser, and Web3 Developer.

ETHDam - a conference and hackathon held in the heart of Amsterdam, Netherlands from April 12th to 14th, 2024, celebrated its second edition, gathering more than 600 participants. 

In the dynamic space of ETHDam, privacy and security took center stage, featuring groundbreaking discussions on hacks, recovery, and the revolutionary work of figures like Pertsev. Privacy is dead in crypto, people that know, know. People who don’t know, should know. 
ETHDam is powered by CryptoCanal, an education and events platform growing in Amsterdam, spreading its roots to Rotterdam and Zürich.
Keep up with us to see updates on future events: https://www.cryptocanal.org/ 
Follow CryptoCanal on X: https://twitter.com/CryptoCanal
Join CryptoCanal TG Community: https://t.me/CryptoCanalCommunity 
Join CryptoCanal Discord: https://discord.com/invite/XJVjpCqQBz

We would like to thank our partners that made this event possible. 🌷
Battleship Partner 
🛳Oasis Network https://oasisprotocol.org/

Jet Ski Partner
🛩⛷  NEAR https://near.org/

Canoe Partners
🛶WAKU https://waku.org/
🛶Trail of Bits https://www.trailofbits.com/
🛶Avalanche https://www.avax.network/
🛶Privacy + Scaling Explorations https://pse.dev/en
🛶Threshold https://threshold.network/

Our Canoe Partner & Official Node Provider
🛶dRPC https://drpc.org/

Sponsor
🤝EF Ecosystem Support Program https://esp.ethereum.foundation/

Paddle Partners
🚣ChainSecurity https://chainsecurity.com/
🚣Lido https://lido.fi/
🚣Cyber Capital https://www.cyber.capital/
🚣Diva https://www.divastaking.net/
🚣Firn Protocol https://firn.cash/
🚣Beefy https://beefy.com/
🚣0xbow https://www.0xbow.io/
🚣Obscura https://obscura.build/
🚣Panther https://www.pantherprotocol.io/
🚣Maven 11 https://www.maven11.com/
🚣Zama https://www.zama.ai/
🚣zkSync https://zksync.io/
🚣Secret Network https://scrt.network/

ETHDam AfterParty Fren
🥳Bitvavo https://bitvavo.com/en

Chapters:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:02:11 - Types of People in the Privacy Community
00:04:27 - Building and Supporting Others
00:06:29 - Fragmenting and Applying Skills in the Industry
00:08:38 - The Challenges of Ethereum Privacy Research
00:10:52 - The Intersection of Privacy and Commercial Interests
00:13:07 - The Cultural Divide: Privacy vs Corporate Interests
00:15:09 - The Importance of Strong Use Cases in Privacy Research
00:17:17 - Diversity in the Privacy Industry
00:19:30 - Embracing Inclusive Privacy Education
00:21:37 - Separating Token Centric Communication from Research and Development
00:23:46 - Auditing Privacy Tools

## Transcript

[Music] generally speaking um I was a bit fed up because I spent too many times in privacy communities and usually they're full of toxic people spreading uh paranoid uh mentality and after the covid and and after kind of like in the midst of War because I'm Ukrainian I'm kind of Fed Up of those people saying to me that yeah we're all gonna die not really but let's see uh where Sterling he said that we only die uh I'm not ready I'm I'm I'm not ready for that thing so what I was thinking uh that's my kind of past life I spent many years ining agencies helping from call to Master Card I was really ashamed and embarrassed of my experience because uh after many years of Ken's Lions many um helping brand managers I understood that basically advertising is a culture of selling [ __ ] and uh moving people towards consuming ISM and from connectivity with each other and now we are doing meetups advocating for privacy and kind I find uh my think and also how I could relate privacy with the surveillance capitalism um this is kind of fictional story that I would uh tell but it draws many many many interesting things from existing Market and my role here is to share some personas including some people in the room who are a part of privacy community and then to make mediate like how we can really connect with each other and uh this is a partially joke because I know that people it's bad to read slides um but I'm super interested that so many people are talking about privacy but they have in mind like 100 different versions of privacy because there are many people who advocate for corporate privacy polygon Nightfall with arston young uh there are many people who advocate for Kurdistan privacy Iranian privacy you name them or financial commercial capitalist super privacy to Taxation and read megie Nelson she is great and those will be now the personas of people who infiltrated privacy Market ji um and they are quite familiar to many of you who were in the Privacy communities like our first hero is a dude usually man who is going to privacy Community chats uh communication and patronizes other people that they should use Linux [ __ ] you MacBook uh you should have a dummy phone burner phone whatever and then I'm like dude go to Brazilian favellas and try to pach the same narrative uh and me and you have lots of money to travel like U why you kind of like expose your privileged uh LIF Style on us but uh one comment what you should do with those people don't add them into your community they will destroy your Vibe but they're hyper experts in the tech in their knowledge so support them put them on the spotlight of the conferences make a podcasts Twitter spaces whatever uh spread the knowledge but understand that they're terrible soft skills people uh which is the reality uh second my beloved one uh kind of again somehow they're man I know how come um and I usually joke how you put empathy on chain how you put diversity on chain inclusion on chain because those dudes they will be super happy to live in this decentralized world they when they will have all the power in their own hands problem with those people is that they go into those forums or chats and again they start to patronize you should do privacy my own way I know the best privacy I am in the market for many years I'm an activist blah blah blah and then uh the problem is like try to avoid working contact with them but again support them in the conferences separate your personal relations because if emotions will come into play you could burn out your fragile activist idealist motto because those people they kind of like cannibalize um your energy uh and because they use it in the nature of privacy in the sense of uh they're the only Jesus Christ who is privacy not you uh it's a word play it was it was unknown and then I was like oh I can have word play because sometimes I've been to aens recently I met the old Anarchist and he was saying that hey do you know what many Progressive people on the left or on the radical left they are much more conservative than the ones they're criticizing because they always patronize you and criticize you oh you're not doing it right you're not behaving right you're not talking right blah blah blah they're teaching they're like my mom or my teacher in the first grade [ __ ] boring and in privacy those people cbdc cbdc cbdc I'm like guys again somehow guys uh why you're not building why you just talking why are you spreading fears why you just don't go and support the other people so I think the certain curation uh of this communication uh it what matters Amir Taki was saying today that even in dark fight chat um they used to be like on telegram they had public chat without the rooms or and it was full of people talking about juice juice juice juice juice juice juice juice like hey how to sit up and not but what about juice and it's kind of became too annoying that you cannot have good discussions when you don't filter them and what they did they started to filter here's a technical chat again people come and like hey what about Jews like oh stop here there's a political chat discuss your political not even agenda but frustrations there but separated from the tech talk supportive talk meme talk whatever and and also I guess those people they need some sort of be navigated what they could really do because some of them unfortunately they're kind of they don't have a specific interesting skills or they are so frustrated that they don't know what to do in their lives and it's really interesting how we can help them because I I met many activists and they're like saying I'm a good activist but what do you do what can you do H I'm a good at organizing speakers I'm like um um I don't know like what what else I'm good at making some events how many events we can do in in the year like I don't know 10 like if everyone would be a good organizer who would work like who would do whatever invoicing who would write uh blog post so on and I think what's important here is to really try to fragment and apply the soft skills or hard skills uh mind framework into what who person is my one of the favorite examples because it's a argument to the Privacy purists privacy purist would say lemon go to hell die you ethereum blah blah uh pre mind although lmon is the co organizer of fth Rome he will make events who will Empower hundreds of hackers do deos for privacy Market maybe those projects will find funding maybe that funding will help researchers to do better research at the market and finally you have a person who is [ __ ] making fun and maybe sometimes we're forgetting that the Privacy also should be fun in a way not everyone should be a clown in privacy but some of the people could also because maybe in their country being open honest and flamboyant is the way like in the states uh uh I mean I'm not sure if I mean s man is watching he said he will watch he's a flamboyant one many people don't like the open flamboyance spun chain VIP but we need everyone in the room and we need to speak their language not just our whatever l park language um I was interested that in Denver there were almost no talks around cyppher punks although I know that crypto is an industry that is cannibalized by people when they hear what vitalic is saying they're like oh we can make money on this let's let's run whatever uh account of Direction let's go uh something with privacy let's go and I don't see that hype on privacy uh and it's interesting it means that the community kind of failed to elevate the voice because there's a mainstream dude who's coming and saying hey all ethereum should be Cy cyber punk I'm like oh but so what could I do personally so we are not doing ethereum privacy system research because I'm for sure even vitalic doesn't know what's happening with the privacy on ethereum because it's hard to follow all those projects there are hundreds welld developed badly developed some teams that are just I don't know Cod on GitHub it's hard to follow every repo there's too many privacy chats but still what we could do always reminding that Cypher Punk could be not just some H there's some dudes in the room who would be Cypher punks uh but also maybe it could be like a small cyer Punk uh naive cyer Punk um beginner Cypher Park uh and not Julian aan in my blood uh type of person um that that's so that's also another joke uh partially on Oasis and Roses but partially that uh ecosystem need financial sustainability for example to maintain a proper anonymity set which means that there should be a transaction within the privacy and I hate tokens I challenge many projects it's like I you don't need that token but if you think about in the long run how they would sustain their operations donations of fno we switch to membership model uh logos uh is helping us that's also the way to align but then if you scale for Mass adoption you need to find a business model I hope that people will really pay for an mvpn because that's an interesting and all those smallish apps uh that they could use within the Privacy um again one of my favorite and uh the what's the uh and rent and rent yeah yeah yeah the libertarian Act commercial capitalist in privacy I'm like oh here we go you will make money on privacy a [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] um there are many data projects who wants to make money on your data promising you privacy and it's a super wrong way because from surveillance capitalism standpoint that's no go because people are making money on you the same as Google is making money on your data that's just the wrong approach and privacy won't save anything and here I I also advis some people in the room to separate let's say privacy EOS uh from the commercial interest of a specific person and we can do things together because there's a way when you can close your eyes on those people and saying they are bringing sponsorships Partnerships people events they are um running meetups uh infrastructure for a potential privacy scalability um I really uh like uh when I used to work in Nim and I dealt with um um ambassadors I think that uh it's a strange game that people pretend that they tvl is genuine not in N but in general through defi whatever all these layer tools that they have wonderful tvl through this micro payments let's say and micro enthusiasts and I really it's sad that poor people trying to chase uh uh European or American projects and try to make any money on them uh and what I was trying to think working with them is like what's the least bad thing we could do so for example they were doing research they were using I guess they're now using chpt canva all these let's make fast content tools on the Privacy use cases around the world we build the biggest forever privacy use cases database because they're content creators but I would never think of them as the Privacy people or a blockchain even people um and in that sense I think that within the V teams or privacy teams it's it's enough to be Humane and said that's the rules of the market but let's try to think around how they could do something genuine for us because they're also people and kind of if privacy is normal we should pit in a nice way uh today I was thinking that Aztec is a terrible name for U uh in the age of decolonization and um but that's just aside and what's interesting that there are many people in the market who are like experts for example in marketing and today they're in privacy protocols tomorrow they're in the five protocols in five years they will be in another thein whatever will be trendy right now and you can be kind of skeptical and thinking about them kind like come and go whatever you you don't really care about privacy but somehow those people if they especially from America and maybe sometimes again now I'm bridging connection with a polygon if polygon studio is making bringing lots of uh Brands and adoption within the crypto within the gaming for example industry this also helps to polygon research to do their Catalan privacy stack so those people who are doing this type of American I don't know like if someone is following Esports Face Clan type of marketing or hip hop artist type of marketing they're bringing to crypto that's why nft were so good because those Americans know how to pitch those things let them do priv as well but maybe they will bring money and exposure to Technologies services and research researches um Robert come come come um uh one one of my favorite guys uh privacy privacy we need to privacy yeah we're doing cool product all decentralization wahah and I'm like but you're all wearing suits you look like those dudes from the I know from the big Tech conferences that are standing on the booth with the sap or Oracle or Cisco and telling us not me but some 17 year old like you need to do you need to believe in privacy and it's all right like I understand corporate privacy there's a layer two uh kind of Enterprise right now in ethereum either cot or something like that I'm like there should be room for everyone but we should really separate each other and if they're sponsoring eth them great some hackers will have their money the capital will move to the other more genuine hands or although in our hand and culturally we need to separate us like privacy and scanning Explorations from those dudes in Suites oh that's almost like the nice song uh and and sorry the your profile has been before you entered the room uh uh original idea was to put some zik researcher like uh zik uh Aragon zik research uh because they they spoke at our conferences they were they are doing still private voting with Aztec for noun da and we love private voting but then I was thinking those people sometimes are so boring and so right they should do their own stuff publish papers in crypto cryptography journals but then I found her and what I love that I know three months ago or earlier uh somehow I don't know how because Twitter is a terrible place to search for privacy use cases but I found some use cases on ah on like uh women rights I guess it's like domestic violence survivors or something like that with Z I'm like wow someone from the cryptography world is talking for the really strong use cases that you can't tell others and they would be like oh you're trying to solve this important issue wow you're not trying to make other people more rich and I think that it's important to find those researchers who understand what CDE or like the people I was say say more people they could talk with people or they they experienced uh use cases themselves because when some privacy researcher from Switzerland is coming to me and saying oh let's um bring privacy to poor I'm like I know can you move from Switzerland first and then let's maybe talk um there are many privacy folks in Switzerland and that's challenging and that and it's interesting that not every your privacy or cryptography research is boring that's that's my big Revelation I really loved it um recently I was uh that's a guy whom we found out through Nan Buster program I guess last year or two years whatever and it's a guy who advocates for privacy in favellas when basically he's bringing his one notebook and he's explaining people what's the crypto what's the node Administration stuff like that or he's going to University and he is teaching privacy in Portuguese language and lots of Builders lots of Builders they need not compliance for first but they need to think that oh the world is not English Centric uh the world is not uh German Centric or whatever and when protocol companies are doing docks that's uh sometimes I'm like dud go out of the street and look at the world because some cdos are like yeah we have all documentation in English I'm like come on uh one example there were two Iranian or three developers who came to Def connect last year and uh they were brought from Iran and they they don't know English they speak far SE and they but they know a bit of code English like common English which is hilarious but they needed someone who would help them navigate them and cheyen x uh consensus diligence was helping them and I super admired that we see more diversity in the game and use cases in Brazil are different from where are we Netherlands or from Mexico and talking with these people walking working with these people is just great and there was a big social movement before AUP Street which is called 15m I guess movement on plaz Del Sol Madrid and I used to work with a guy who was a activist there and he said and he was this guy like about 50 I guess like 55 or close to 60 and he's like I strongly believe in the youth generation we need to invest in youth they will be developers of the privacy of the future and that was his kind of like uh not a not a not a right hand but kind of like someone whom he really trusts and I love this generational transition and support um with motivations is a bit sketchy tricky and problematic because lots of these audiences they exclude each other and that's a problem straight away so I would say that quiet don't think that everyone in privacy is equal don't think that everyone in privacy think the same uh but try to navigate in between because generally maybe there's a there's a bigger Global goal the guys who started to run Pirate Bay were originally politically non allied at all but the challenge of spreading the knowledge democratized the knowledge was bigger than than everything else um big thing is my Revelation on coming here many pracy communities are [ __ ] techn elitist they from Discord they escape from telegram they hide in their smallest chats for 50 people what's that like is it techno Utopia maybe they should go to some small village and then Advocate to each other kiss each other in a cheek instead of huh yeah zalo but for but for lunar punks uh but like hardcore ones and I'm like I don't want to live in that world I want to be inclusive open and share something I believe in I I even forgot to what to add here um and instead I would embrace the politics of care when we support each other when we think about for example if we're traveling the new country uh what are the Privacy use cases there what are the people working there uh how to help them how to connect with them many people in Catalonia for example when I used to live don't speak English well so when they travel abroad the the that guy who was on behind of ziki sink zuk and I was like oh dude you're poorly speaking English but maybe he would be also interested in privacy use cases so that's that's a tricky uh thing uh com marketing is like sometimes the the Privacy companies who hate each other also collaborate and say that's good uh we should support each other instead of fighting um we should really Embrace uh entry point for many people into privacy don't scare them with st the cash cases uh more like making privacy education one1 inclusive is to think about with corporations and VCS many people will burn VCS uh it's so hard I know some privacy protocols who fundraise from a68 crypto binance stuff like that I work there uh uh VC is really corrupt your mindset uh if you have token they corrupt your thinking you start to be preoccupied by token and no biotechnology uh s Mees I'm finishing I'm streamlining uh so one recommendation here is to Super separate toxic token Centric communication from uh research Community uh development and that's how they want overlap good example is like polygon research type of stuff and polygon daily or polygon studio um I don't think that JY balina wants to pleasure the token Hunters that's not his Ambitions and stuff like that and I think that and you can rire stupid money into smart money um our way is to we are doing lots of building something like l2b or MDB for privacy data driven one website free free forever every with 600 privacy tools uh structured and scored uh smallish cherium Grant and other stuff uh then we Advocate a lot so there's lots of complex activities you could do to align those people on the road to Bringing Millions people into privacy and uh the goal uh the goal should be always super complex because for example for us for me the more Builders will do privacy the more products will appear at privacy the more people would use privacy because of the products and it's really sad when many technical people are coming and talking about wonderful technology but they never mentioned properly not your cases I'm fed up with this word but people what kind of need is there for your product because many technical people they live in the chamber wonderful product everyone would use oh no I've seen those teams who died along the way waiting for users or Builders to use that should be the other way around uh bring more product people or learn devs to become a bit of producti not actually uh not lawyers but first product and then maybe think about compliance because then compliance could corrupt all the mons and security audits 90% of privacy tool Ling never been audited properly and when they tell you we were a audited check what was the nature of the audit usually smart contract I'm like not necessar smart contract defines your privacy features priv privacy features should Beed first then move forward we want to push this a bit with zok or other security companies Cate and create the first ever privacy features Centric audit so then the auditing company would be responsible if the Privacy features are failed and come to Berlin prag we are doing suit Miss UPS whatever we are nice um I like that we could really uh practice freedom and I really encourage everyone and we are moving that Direction test new privacy tools on weekly basis you don't like them but test them give a feedback uh use coins once in a while for whatever reason um not a big fan of drugs but uh maybe you can find something alternative interesting like no no no no no I'm going there like [ __ ] books buy books with your Z cash or something else or just help person to in need with Zach so the person would be like oh I receed the donation but I don't have a zh wallet I need to do an extra effort and that's always helpful uh another a bit hilarious think I was thinking like sometimes those presentations are boring and not interesting those are the movies uh that I recommend you to watch uh R Judi is a perfect movie about relationship between capitalism and the Eastern Europe and basically uh people poor people uh first reformed is really interesting comment on uh America ecological activism uh Christianity whatever uh Lucifer is just a surreal story on intersection between uh technology like drone surveillance and the spirituality and touch of Sin from J is just wonder in I think ah casual reminder we have a war in Europe and uh and I'm sending just sending hi to all the Russians here who pretends that they are decentralized in America and there's no political agenda in play thanks a lot thank you very much [Music]