# Big Announcement From RedStone | Marcin Kaźmierczak, Jakub Wojciechowski | ETHWarsaw [4] - Channel: [ETH Warsaw](https://streameth.org/eth-warsaw) - Date: 2025-11-09 - Duration: 33:02 - Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-TVD9C2_vAB8 - YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVD9C2_vAB8 ## Description Big Announcement From RedStone! 🎥 Recorded at ETHWarsaw 2025 Follow ETHWarsaw on social media for the latest updates! X (Twitter): https://x.com/ETHWarsaw LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/ethwarsaw Telegram chat: https://t.me/joinethwarsaw ## Transcript Okay, E4. So, I hope you're still energized. I know it's already past the lunch time. You already had some food and you're probably quieting down. So, let me try to pump you up a little bit. I need your help. I'm going to say if and you say Warso. If >> Waro >> ifo. >> Yay. And that's how we're going to kick the presentation. So uh with Redstone we have a big announcement today but let me first say a few words um about us as the company. So um collectively today we managed to gather from reputable global investors over $22 million. Uh some of our investors are Blockchain Capital, Coinbase Ventures, Arrington Capital led by Mike Arrington the founder of TechCrunch and Crunchb Stan Klejo the founder of AA Sandep founder of Polygon. So truly reputable brands are backing us because they believe in the vision that we have of making oracles following the DeFi trends and innovation that's happening on the market. We built awesome products. That's simple as that. We created, for example, Bolt, which is the fastest oracle on the market right now, operating on Mega Eve, updating price feeds on chain every single block going up to 2.4 millisecond uh of updates. To visualize that, 2.4 4 millisecond an update makes over 400 updates a second which is like really uh hard to imagine for a human brain. We love research and our team we always uh look for things that are interesting for the market and that can also educate others about the progress. In example, recently we created the most comprehensive real world assets report together with Gauntlet and RWXYZ. And you know what? We are a bunch of uh easygoing and cool people that try to make DeFi just better place with uh the most reliable oracles that can be delivered. Thankfully, our strategy has been bringing a lot of good results. We've grown 10,000% over last 18 months, so one and a half years. We have over 180 clients, so it's already old slide. Uh over 110 chains that we support, including the major ones like Ethereum, Solana, SUI, but some harder to integrate ones as well like Ton and a couple of others. And we secure over 10 billions of dollars. So our job is fairly stressful to be honest in that regard that if we make mistakes there is true big capital at risk. So we have to make sure that the infrastructure deliver is of the top-notch quality. Where do you use redstone as an oracle on lending markets such as morpho compound hyperland stable coins and CDPs for example felix on hyperlquid ecosystem where we are the leading oracle with itina with staking and restaking. So uh etherfy, Renzo, Lombard that recently has been growing very nicely and yield protocols and vaults. So strategies where you allocate your capital and you expect the return to acrew over time. This year we also established ourselves as the leading real world assets oracle and real world assets is one of the fastest growing um stream in the D5 narrative right now. Redstone is the official oracle for securityize and all tokenized assets that they deliver including black rockckrock biddrock as a reminder is the biggest hedge fund in the world over $10 trillion asset under management. There is no bigger Apollo Acret which is a tokenized private credit and Redstone enabled the first looping strategy that is known globally right now. together with Christine who is the lead for acres from Apollo. We work very closely to keep expanding that also Vanic Vibil Hington Lane Bup fund and many more are to come. Okay, this is where we are but we keep expanding and growing the ecosystem. So, oh yeah, and uh this year uh thankfully in Poland, Forbes recognized Redstone as number one startup in the broad general category, not crypto startups, like startups in general. And I'm extremely proud. [Applause] Thank you. I'm extremely proud of that one because historically public media and newspapers like Forbes have been pretty skeptic towards crypto and blockchain uh with their reasons right there is a lot there's been a lot of scam in our industry uh but they saw that we are bu building something that is for long-term and delivers a lot of value and they gave us this recognition but as we go as we look forward we think like how to make the space even better and more useful for regular users. >> Yeah. So the last slide it wasn't our announcement. It's going to be revealed pretty soon. Let me first tell you a bit like what kind of problem are could we solve with the upcoming announcement. So when we started building Redstone 5 years ago, the space was pretty simple and easy to navigate. Talking about stable coins, you got to decide between USDC, USDT, D. But recently there are really cool innovation coming to the space. For example, ETNA allows you to to build a stable coin that is based on funding rate ys. Also, there are like new upcoming coins from hash node. There's very interesting solutions from resolve. So there are more and more products and actually right now I've counted 200 stable coins but I think that's underestimated and it's a very similar story with RWA like we started with tokenizing uh treasury bills from US but right now with the new boom you can tokenize almost everything. So the the solid money derivatives like private credit or private funds but also interestingly enough today I jump into someone who is building a project that is tokenizing oil tankers. So basically you can imagine a world where almost everything is being tokenized and put on chain and also stuff like stocks which are getting more and more popular in the onchain derivatives form reinsurance refactoring etc. And not only the assets are peripholating also the the places when you can actually deploy and deposit assets are getting more and more complex. So I imagine few years ago when you got some crypto you could deposit that on a on compound and that was the biggest choice. And right now with a new really interesting innovation of permissionless vaults, you can outsource the curation to to professional risk experts and then can deploy new vaults and new markets on protocols such as Morpho, Oiler, Camino and there are more coming up. So basically instead of having a choice between two or three alternatives, you right now have 500 opportunities where to deploy your money. So it's not such an easy choice to make and it will become even worse when you multiply that by the number of assets. So we are not only depositing let's say stables or if but you can deposit a token that is already a complex structure for example like USD from ETNA or RWA and you can connect that deposit to another protocol. So there's something called reotication when basically a position in one protocol could be used as a collateral in another protocol. Yeah. So it quickly becomes messy. And when you are at DJ and the goal is to click as fast as possible to deposit and earn like four digit out that was easy. But when you are an institution with billions of dollars under management, you need better tools to manage the liquidity and manage risk. Okay, so I know what you're thinking. For God's sake, tell us what the announcement is about, right? like stop talking. But for that I do need your help. So I ask everyone to tap your legs. So the kicker is that Redstone acquires Credora network. Round of applause. And with that acquisition, we are becoming the largest DeFi rating provider in the whole world. And it does matter. We go there together with our new two strategic advisors. Welcome to stage Daria and Matt, the two co-founders of Credora that join us as strategic adviserss. Round of applause. [Applause] So I will let Daran say a few words about Credora and explain why it actually matters to join Redstone. >> Thanks. Thanks so much for having us and it's great to be part of the Redstone team. Now, um, Matt and I have been building Credora for 6 years now, and our mission, very similar to Redstone, has been to make DeFi more transparent, but we focus mostly on the risk side of things. So, we try and standardize the variety of different risks that exist in crypto. And, uh, you know, as Jacob was saying, they're only getting more complex. So, what we've done is to try and standardize that um, across DeFi. And so we're really excited about this partnership and and being acquired by Redstone um because we think this can take it to the next level where we can really be the infrastructure where a lot of DeFi can be built on top of. So um I'll talk just this one. Um so I can tell you a little bit about our thinking and why ratings are crucial. Uh so as I said like DeFi is getting more and more complicated but there are many layers of risk that already exist in DeFi. Um and a lot of unknown layers of risk that are still being figured out. Um but broadly you can look at um you know network risk. So like the chain risk, counterparty risk where stuff goes off chain or is held at a centralized custodian. Uh smart contract risk we're all familiar with. um but various other types of risk like Oracle risk, operational risk, legal risk, regulatory risk and to try and understand that across a growing number of assets as well as thousands of lending markets and dozens of lending protocols is extremely complicated and it's difficult to compare them like for like. So as a lot of people do in DeFi, you just sort by yield which you know hasn't gone well uh for for the last few years. So like I think what we think is trying to make uh a standardized framework helps you solve this incredibly difficult problem. Um, so what we also seen is that the composable nature of DeFi makes these risks even more difficult to spot. So you we're all familiar with looping, but there are other ways you can compose these DeFi assets that mean that the risk can get hidden um much more easily. Um, and then because there are onchain and off-chain risk blending together, we've talked about RWAs, we're familiar with Athena. um those risks are again more difficult to quantify. So that's what we've spent a lot of our time standardizing um and really like also in the ethos of crypto. So consensus driven ratings is what we've built where we aggregate lots of different inputs to be able to produce these ratings on digital assets but also the lending markets that sit on top. We make these transparent these methodologies transparent so we can get better quicker um with input from the community and for the user it is a way to easily interpret um what risk you're taking. So when you go on Morpho you're able to you've been able to see the risk in a very standardized way so that all of these hundreds of vaults that are there you can actually have some sort of mechanism of comparing something other than just the yield. Um so um I'll pass it to I'll pass it to my co-founder Matt before >> Thank you. Um I'm going to tell you a little bit about the the size of the opportunity that we see in DeFi ratings. So this is a huge market in in traditional finance ratings that is and at the same time we see this explosive growth in in tokenized assets. So what what are the numbers? Uh annually the three big ratings agencies in traditional markets generate about $10 billion in revenue from the ratings businesses alone. Most expectations for tokenized assets by 2030 are roughly around 5 trillion. So huge growth from where we are today. And then curators, which are currently the access point to DeFi yield, they have about $15 billion in in TVL today. So plenty of room to grow there. Already in 2025, curator TVL has grown by over 250%. So what are the key takeaways from these numbers? We've seen a lot of trends mostly from crypto exchanges recently, but we expect this to extend into more traditional institutions where their earned products are powered by DeFi. So for example, Coinbase and Crypto.com, both of their earned products are integrated into the Morpho ecosystem to generate yield for their users. Navigating yield opportunities as a user does require understanding both risk and reward, right? So you have to quantify risk to do that. And ratings are a really easy way for users to understand simply how risk is quantified. The last bit and then I'll pass back to Daron is that we think ratings can enable a host of new smart contract functionality that makes basically applications both smarter and safer for for DeFi users. >> Yeah. So I mean I think if you look at the impact that price oracles have had in DeFi, they've enabled a lot of automation at the smart contract layer. And so Redstone does an amazing job of that already today. And what we firmly believe is that risk is the next thing that can be ingested by smart contracts where if you can have standardized credible risk data, you can create lots of new applications on top like managing your risk across Morpho, Oiler, and various other D5 protocols in a way that doesn't just go and pick the highest yielding vault like it looks at your risk-to-reward uh preferences. And you can have lots of other you know different types of RWA assets that you can construct on top. So it can be the basis of something very new in terms of the applications that you can build on top. Um so really we think this partnership allows for scalable and widely distributed ratings with Redstone's existing distribution across DeFi. Um so if you think about like traditional ratings um and the difference between institutional and retail approaches to crypto um broadly what we see is institutions or well actually crypto natives and retail tend to consistently underpric the risk of crypto and institutions consistently overestimate the risk that is associated with crypto. And broadly, we think that the way to bridge that gap is to create a standardized framework where institutions already understand it. This is the norm. This is what they expect. They expect a scale which maps to a probability of loss. And that's what we've created. We've created a a framework where you can compare Moro Vault to liquid staking to um T bills to corporate bonds to restaking protocols. And the the goal really there is to be able to basically drive adoption across institutions and retail alike and give them the confidence to be able to build something something new, something more exciting. And so we're really excited to be able to do that with with with Redstone. Um so we're already on Morpho as you've heard. Um we we rate uh over $4 billion of TVL which a big part of their their protocol already. We rate uh a bunch of assets and vaults and markets that sit inside there. But we're already working on new protocols uh which which will be enhanced soon. Um, we work with some of the largest curators in the space that also work with those fintexs that Matt mentioned earlier. So, they uh are being the bridge to Coinbase and all these other fintexs that will basically use DeFi as their back end. Um, and what we've seen consistently over the time that we've been rating on Morpho is that the TVL of any vault that is rated is stickier. it's more capable of attracting confidence from any depositor. So when uh markets are volatile, we've seen unrated vaults lose TVL much more quickly um versus rated vaults. And we think that that is a trend that will continue and it will be that ratings will be a requirement much like they are in traditional markets versus being a nice to have. So as I said, we're working on a number of new integrations outside of Morpho. Um, and there is a lot of TVL out there to be rated. >> Righty, let's uh talk a bit about the future. But let me just come back a moment for that slide for those that are not super familiar with the rating business as it is today in traditional finance. We have three major agencies that are dominating the market. S&P that you can recognize with S&P 500 or some indexes. This is the same organization S&P Global. There's Moody's and there's Fitch. And all of them are following let's say fairly standardized way of giving out the rating. And here I think something that is extremely important that Daran Mad and their team created is mapping out the same kind of like thought process to the rating of the D5 volts. So it's something that is already existing in traditional finance and is very much a standard like many times institutions cannot even invest or interact with a specific product if there is another rating or there is a rating below a certain threshold and how the future is going to look like. So we believe that all DeFi participants are going to benefit from ratings taking more informative decisions. And to visualize that I again will ask you for a favor to help me with answering the question. Who of you is using Google Maps, Trip Advisor or similar websites to rate where we are going to eat in the evening or eat lunch or whatever? I I am confident to say like probably like 90% of us we do care what we are going to eat in the evening with our friends. And right now people in DeFi don't use ratings to allocate their savings, sometimes life savings. And we've seen horrible stories of people putting their absolute life savings into Teraluna, Celsius or other places where they literally exploded and people lost their whole wealth. Therefore, raiding is so much important to bring to the space. So now I'm going to talk about the three types of users that I believe are very much present in this market. So first we have who no one else than our deents who say wag me which means we are going to make it. I do believe on our uh audience over here we do have some of those uh deents that are interested in perpetual dexes high yield higher risk. So essentially to the moon. Um when they exit a strategy they could look at some safe heaven for regular people. could be for example stable coins or T bills but they would be also interested in some more riskier he safe heavens like tokenized private credit or maybe tokenized re insurance which also gives them higher yield than the traditional ones. Then we have Marson in example which is a regular user always in front of the laptop with a coffee. Uh that user is a bit more risk aware and is interested in relatively stable allocation usually longer term. to you create an allocation and then you put it over there. Worry very much about losing all the money in terite uh collapse. Um and I I will share a personal story. So I did put some money into Anchor after months of uh looking my friends bragging about I think 20% yield on Teraluna. Thankfully it was like very little like I don't know 500 bucks or 1,000. But therefore I can very much relate to people who kept their money in Ankor which was the yield protocol on Terra the biggest one. They saw their money grow let's say from I don't know 500,000 to 700,000 and then one day it turns out that's worth zero nothing. It's not 700,000 it's zero. So it's very much uh true story and then we have those institutions and I believe this is something that is not much present in the market and that we can unlock with Redstone and with Credora by Redstone who cannot interact with risky assets. Many times ratings might be the compliance or internal policy requirement. So it might be the case that they even cannot allocate money to a place where it lacks rating. And I do believe there's going to be a very widescale adoption with those institutions, banks, hedge funds, people who manage trillions of dollars because this is how the traditional finance looks like. And it's also been a process. It wasn't that ratings came one year and everything was raided. It took years or even decades to make it happen. And I do believe this is going to be a similar process in general in DeFi. So if you want to get a rating today or you're interested in the product suit that we will be expanding in general as Redstone by Cordora, you can scan the QR code, it's going to bring you to the form where you can sign up for the newest updates. We are not going to send newsletter or whatever. The moment we have the product that we are working on ready, you're just going to get a notice. Hey, if you want you can check it out and use yourself. It's also available on the credora.network website. And thank you very much for being with us on this announcement. I want to double tap into thanking both Darian and Matt who Darian came from Lisbon and Matt came from New York City. So they took a longer way and I'm truly truly excited about working together with you guys. Come with me. So we are going to revolutionize define landing. Hell yeah. Thanks a lot for being with us. >> Um, any questions >> to Redstone? Yeah, awesome. That was huge. Congrats. >> Are there any questions? >> Yeah, there are some. >> Hold up. Um, I think this is great. Um, I myself I'm always like, where's the risk coming from? Like this restaking protocol, you know, like will it go to zero? But um I'm curious, how do you guys compare to something like IORE rating, right? They're like a risk-free credit rating. Um I don't know, do you guys have something similar you're thinking about or you know, how do you compare to like other uh credit rating platforms in web 3 in general? But um yeah, I'm curious about like risk tooling, >> how we compare with IPO, an example there. >> Yeah. So um I think what we what we've tried to do is probably base it more on a probability. So you can compare it with any other rating in the space uh that has done similar. So all traditional ratings like S&P, Moody's etc. They have rated some digital assets. I think you saw like USDS uh was rated or maker uh their asset was rated by by S&P recently. Uh Moody's is rated tokenized uh funds. So all of our ratings are comparable or able to be benchmarked to traditional ratings. Um so really the way to make it such that you can compare across all these different assets is to make it based in a probability of loss and that's where we've kind of centered our methodologies. I missed some of the questions so if I didn't >> that's okay. I mean um IOR is more of like an average risk rating, risk-f free rating across >> web 3 in general, but I mean that that product is um just their thing. But I actually have a few other questions um regarding like retail. Okay. >> So if I'm a retail user, >> um what's the model for you guys providing this type of uh risk rating for retail users? Do you have >> um specific tools like what is the kind of flagship product there? Yeah. So, right now we make our ratings available publicly. Um, usually those ratings are paid for by the asset issuers or the protocols themselves. So, the commercial arrangements that we generate are on the asset issuer side. And that is really how it works in Tradfi as well. Um, it's the person that's looking to attract capital that really wants to show themselves and as low risk or at least good riskto-reward. Um so yeah the goal is that it is traditionally free for the uh user to see that headline rating. The platform itself is designed to be one where you can add on other products that you know retail can click into and as they get more curious about what is behind the scenes uh of those ratings. So we have a platform that does expand on all those ratings and give you an understanding of where that risk comes from uh which we will integrate into Redster. >> Mhm. And where's like your rating coming from? Are you using like uh a basket of um quote unquote safe yield and then building all of your risk models based off that or do you already have some other you know baseline that you're training on? >> Yeah. So if you look at a Morpho vault or any lending pool uh underneath that underneath that there are different lending markets that are uh and then underneath that there are collateral assets. So we rate a collateral asset much like any uh bond or fixed income asset uh but we do it with a defy specific methodology. So we look at the quality of that asset that is backing that token. So if it's a T bills backstable coin the asset is a a T- bill. Um but if it's Athena it's a trade strategy that is backing that particular um uh token. And then we look at the custody setup. So is it held in on an exchange? Is it held in institutional custody? Is it held at a bank? Is it held in a smart contract? And we then look at a variety of other factors and effectively quantify the probability of loss of that particular collateral asset. So you look at the smart contract risk, you look at a variety of other factors. And then we use statistical simulations to look at the probability of loss in the lending vault itself. So you run a bunch of simulations based on the risk of that collateral asset but also the liquidity, the volatility of that market, Oracle configurations um and essentially then compute like a probability of loss which again then benchmarks back to that scale. Uh so you can then compare the lending vault to the collateral asset to T bills to corporate bonds. Mhm. So like the um the equivalent of a US bond which is like traditionally you know uh well for the US government traditional rate rating is very like risk-f free like the equivalent in DeFi would be an Athena Athena stable coin. Uh I wouldn't say it's equivalent but um I'd say there are tokenized money market funds like from Franklin Templeton or uh similar and they achieve similar ratings both by us and also by S&P and Moody's. >> Great. Thank you. >> All right. Uh thank you. Uh one more. Okay. One more but be quick because we're running out of time. >> Thank you. This is a quick question. Uh do you rate any RWA assets like for for example tokenized Apple cuz there are several tokenized apples say by swarm markets other issues but uh the for the ultimate holder there is no clarity which is which asset is secure which is insecure if I'm the ultimate holder of this asset or this is the intermediary company hold this and if this it stops operation I have nothing in my wallet. Yeah. Uh, so yes, we rate RWA assets. We generally the ratings today look at what is the probability of loss. If I put $100 in, what is the probability I lose a dollar, at least a dollar? Um, and so we focused on yielding instruments today. Uh, because that is the general assumption when you buy an RWA token that is a bond or a yielding asset. With tokenized stocks, we are you can adapt our framework and that's something that's you know on our roadmap but like you can basically provide a score that is not quite the same as a rating because you don't you can't necessarily say the probability of loss of an Apple stock is quantifiable because there's a lot of things that go into the price of an Apple stock but um but yes you can provide you can use the same framework to quantify the risk from a structure perspective because that is effectively what we do when we look at tokenized RWAS. We look at the legal structure, the uh bankruptcy remoteness effectively um like you mentioned legal claim uh the smart contract risk of that particular asset, the custodian risk etc. >> Yeah. Basically when we talk about stocks there is no an opportunity to send some fraction of this because the Apple stock will appreciate or depreciate with all kind of companies who provide tokenization. you if you lose you lose everything just because the company the the canizer stops operation that's why how for the end user there there is no opportunity what kind of license they have what this license allows uh do they actually have a contract with the eclear or any custodian that nominates you the token holder as the ultimate holder and them as a nominal holder that's why the question is that the the agency can actually check the all those things and say yeah this Apple stock is secure or say with less risk of losing everything >> this Apple stock is is different. >> Yeah. >> So do you have any ratings for Apple stocks any >> we don't do stocks today but it is >> okay thank you >> but we do fixed income rwas. >> Okay. Um thank you. If you have any more questions to Redstone please visit their booth. It's there. Okay. Uh, huge round of applause for Redstone and a really cool announcement.