# Leona Hioki [Intmax] x Ethereum Cypherpunk Congress

- Speakers: [Leona Hioki](https://streameth.org/speakers/leona-hioki)
- Channel: [Ethereum Cypherpunk Congress](https://streameth.org/ethereum-cypherpunk-congress)
- Date: 2025-10-07
- Duration: 14:36
- Topics: Education
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-aD13oktkf2g
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD13oktkf2g

## Description

Ethereum Cypherpunk Congress facilitated by the Web3Privacy now collective: https://www.web​3privacy.info

Ethereum Cypherpunk Congress: https://congress.web​3privacy.info
X: https://x.com/web3privacy

## Transcript

hi everyone I'm Lona from INX and today I want to talk about our price of privacy instead of value of privacy so value privacy is quite obvious right now I don't have to talk about that here because no it's obviously demanded and they Al obviously protecting you guys from something right so but actually what is the price of privacy the price is quite accurate number right so price it's different from value and how do we measure the value uh sorry uh price of privacy here so I have a question for you guys so how much privacy do you have how much privacy do you have actually 100 thousand can you measure that so this is all about the noal point to measure price of privacy right so actually know the measurement of privacy it's not popular it's it's unknown right now there are many measurement are proposed by researchers and maybe yeah you you might are know some of them but when we say we have more privacy when we say we have less privacy when we say no this app is more private what actually are we talking about now this is all about the starting point right so and then we can measure the cost performance of their privacy apps and we can uh count the privacy and then we can we can measure our privacy right so this is a starting point so we need to know the unit of privacy so what is the unit of privacy when we say we have a no one $1 100 millionar and what kind of privacy wors that kind of equals that no this is their no uh how we talk about privacy and when we say we have many many privacy how strong we are know against what so the unit of pracy we can yeah we can Define that how same are the other people we are right so more and more less and less understanding your you have more privacy right and if you come up with enthropy like or no measurement you have a good sense right the enthropy is informative or measurement in computer science or know how it's it's kind of amount of inform information so it's defined by probability and if you yeah come up with this method to measure privacy you have a good sense and entropy we can redefine this like how supplies we get when we encount our information well this is a quite hard straightforward expression of enthropy so but actually is quite academic so I don't think it works in in kind of practical way to measure privacy so what kind of privacy measurement do big companies on the the other actual privacy uh project are using so we can Define one person it's a person are we can mix with so this is actually used in apple right now on the in Upper measurement they have a privacy per Just moment uh yeah p a person per day know they using this measurement it's quite practical because no how less outstanding you are from how many people this is all about privacy right so this is quite practical and we can use this measurement for actual Financial privacy in this crypto space so actual Financial privacy in crypto space like know tornado cash and yeah of course Monero zcash you can Define yourself or how many people you are mixing with right okay take a look or one case so you took your money from KY CCX and use a unisoft bar compound 100 times and one hope to another know address to to to a new address how many person do you do you have no it's a stupid question that's how many person but actually a Unity is person so how many person do you have of course it's one person no you can detect no this person from this KRC address is act yeah of course it's one person and it's surprising that no so many people in this crypto space just have one person privacy today right almost all the 99% of crypto user have one person privacy not more than that you use a privacy protocol when the other people are not using how many person do you have so for example there's a privacy protocol with no almost no people and you withdraw your money from CX and the know make it private and to hop to another new address how many person do you have if you do this yes yeah of course it's one person right so even if you use privacy app no you there are many cases you have only one person privacy right so privacy is quite difficult so how do we make this privacy calendar continuously or no mix with many people or let's say yeah priv making private with many people right so if we Define the unit of privacy we can to go to the next stage so one person how much dollar so it's quite difficult to measure that actually but no there's a many approach to kind of know measure that so for example Monero it has 100K monthly users and if you use that know you can mix with many people like 100k right and okay it's three your Market Gap and we can it's it's not their measurement it's it's not their cost of this privacy but we can Bary Define this calculate this like a almost 100K uh sorry uh 30k dollar per person right so if we measure like this way no it's like a 30 G right another way to evaluate the Privacy it's no we can measure by cost right so in Swiss bank for example it's very very private and how much do you pay for know Swiss bank it's not so famous or market price are in this stage but we the average price of Swiss bank is like 20K uh dollar and the yeah basically no more than at least it's 10 so it's quite a similar range of moneros are no measurement right Monero no we measur that 30k right it's it's like a 20K here so yeah we can think that value of privacy measured by cost or measured by market cap we can presume that one person privacy and no making yourself private basically cost or valued like several uh 10K do and it's just an invitation and know I want to make a brief introduction of what I am doing so we want to Major the Privacy here and privacy mining of INX is like or all about how to measure the privacy and how to evaluate the uh no value of privacy so in inax or no INX privacy Market there's a equium so there's a mining power know to make yourself privacy and there's a cost of course and we can have equilibrium of privacy market so differently we can find a way to define the know how much dollar each unit of privacy cost so it's just a introduction of this mechanism and actually so privacy mining is like sorry privacy mining is like making a great anonymity set on the basically leing their anonymity set so you can buy anonymity set so there a price Market of course and you can make a um the price of the market of course and you can measure uh how much dollar do you need to buy your anonymity set and why do we need privacy at low cost this another Pro kind of uh perspective so why is that problem if it's cost a lot to make yourself private so basically there are many privacy Pro protocol in this space and where using that privacy protocol makes you less private uh sometimes so your user type type information will be like privacy user right so when you interact with privacy protocol a lot your address can be marked sometimes and the so I don't think it's a critical problem but some people might say they have more privacy in terms of user type information so mix with the other people uh not limited to privacy people but also ordinal people it's quite a big key for the know keep yourself private for example lighning network no like lighning network has a lot of strong privacy and the fact using lighning network doesn't mean that you're privacy user there are so many are user just chasing in their lower fee or kind of demanding lower fee right so almost all the user online Network they are not privacy user and it's quite adequate uh way to gain privacy for privacy people privacy people can feel more safe to mix with our normal people and the identify theirselves as non privacy people this is kind of what we call Meta pracy and I used to call this are quiet privacy but I'm yeah talking about this are so larly in many spaces so I stopped calling that quiet privacy but yeah it's a meta privacy and yeah this is a not good for layer to of course and also it yeah L on should have this privacy mixed with many hard types of people so okay it's all about their private price privacy today and so if you have a smartphone H please join there no privacy mining it's kind of you can or no it's a social experiment to to find how much price do we have to pay for anonymity set and yeah if you if you have a no Twitter account right now no you can search privacy mining there or inmax in MX uh to to ask access this privacy Mining and yeah due to their huge respect to their know many privacy protocols like uh tornado gash and no Phoenix and no Aztec yeah we do the we would have a coporation uh Cooperative uh Futures to for them as well because we prioritizing the volume instead of TBL so basically this privacy mining you can mix with the other privacy protocol to to get uh great anonimity set or more so yeah this is something uh let's say something unique in privacy protocols space as well so thank you thanks for listening to me and yeah let's make our great anonymity set together