# Fireside Chat I Kain Warwick, Synthetix, and Kartik Talwar, ETHGlobal | Pragma New York 2023

- Speakers: [Kartik Talwar](https://streameth.org/speakers/kartik-talwar), Kain Warwick
- Channel: [ETHGlobal](https://streameth.org/ethglobal)
- Date: 2023-10-09
- Duration: 38:18
- Topics: DeFi, Kain Warwick, Synthetix, Infinex, Pragma NYC, decentralized finance, DeFi future, Layer 2s, real world assets, RWA, governance, synthetics v3, app chains, DEX vs CEX, AMMs, council governance, ethereum, crypto trading, DeFi bear market, DeFi onboarding, EVM compatibility, perpetuals, DeFi UX, tokenomics, DeFi governance, Pragma New York, crypto infrastructure, yield farming, defi revenue, decentralized protocols
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-adGqBI3SXfU
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adGqBI3SXfU

## Description

Kain Warwick, founder of Synthetix, joins Pragma New York 2023 for a deep fireside chat exploring the evolving landscape of DeFi. In this conversation, Kain reflects on how decentralized finance has matured, the transition from yield farming to sustainable protocols, and the real-world potential of permissionless markets.

He discusses Layer 2s, DEX vs CEX dynamics, real-world asset integration, and the growing complexity of governance, including Synthetix’s unique council model and the launch of Infinex. Whether you're a founder building in a bear market or a TradFi veteran curious about crypto’s next frontier, this is a must-watch for understanding what’s next in DeFi and how user experience and infrastructure are aligning for mass adoption.

00:00 Intro to Kain Warwick and Synthetix
00:36 How DeFi has changed in the last 5 years
01:49 Layer 2s unlock DeFi innovation
02:55 DeFi’s perp protocols and CEX competition
04:37 From Ponzi yields to real protocol revenue
06:02 Feature parity between DeFi and TradFi
07:00 Novel opportunities DeFi can unlock
08:01 Real world assets and tokenized finance
09:30 Will DeFi apps spin out into app chains?
10:56 Managing liquidity and revenue across chains
11:56 App chain pros and cons for DeFi governance
13:21 Why L2 fragmentation is inevitable
14:18 EVM compatibility and dydx leaving Ethereum
15:52 Synthetix vs CEX: liquidity and market coverage
17:27 UX and onboarding are DeFi’s bottlenecks
18:56 Users still live on centralized exchanges
20:19 Infinex: improving UX for Synthetix trading
21:19 Synthetix V3 enables permissionless markets
22:46 Building financial primitives faster with V3
23:18 Synthetix council governance model
24:52 Measuring governance success in DAOs
26:18 Specialized councils and governance mining
27:51 Earning governance from trading activity
28:20 Risks of going fully decentralized
29:22 Regulatory resistance through decentralization
30:58 Advice for founders building in bear markets
32:30 Bear markets are ideal for wild experimentation
34:31 Advice for TradFi professionals entering DeFi
36:05 How to out-innovate slow incumbents
37:35 Don’t believe the “AMMs are solved” psyop
38:01 Final thoughts and closing

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🇺🇸 *Pragma New York*
The fifth edition of Pragma took place in New York in September 2023 with a curated series of high-quality talks that sparked thought and discussion. Pragma is a one-stage conference with founders-only on stage, bringing together a small group of curated attendees and speakers to discuss the future of web3 and reflect on the past. Watch the full Pragma New York 2023 playlist here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXzKMXK2aHh6xsRbmx2niHEDyOyt1mddu&si=6Ic960b2hQyz9RGw

ETHGlobal's Pragma series takes place in cities around the world, and is designed to be a different kind of event. Ever since we first introduced our new event series, Pragma, in Tokyo in the spring of 2023, we have been fostering a curated, global community of individuals who deeply care about web3. 

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✅ *Follow Kain Warwick*
X: https://x.com/kaiynne

✅ *Follow Synthetix*
X: https://x.com/synthetix_io

✅ *Follow Kartik Talwar*
X: https://x.com/therealkartik
Warpcast: https://warpcast.com/kartik

✅ *Follow ETHGlobal*
X: https://x.com/ETHGlobal​
Warpcast: https://warpcast.com/ethglobal
Website: https://ethglobal.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ETHGlobal 

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_Are you interested in Ethereum development and entrepreneurship?_
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