# Fireside Chat with Bogdan Habic & Kartik Talwar at Pragma Prague 2025

- Speakers: [Kartik Talwar](https://streameth.org/speakers/kartik-talwar)
- Channel: [ETHGlobal](https://streameth.org/ethglobal)
- Date: 2025-10-09
- Duration: 23:19
- Topics: Bogdan Habic, Tenderly, Ethereum developer tools, EVM, smart contract debugging, contract verification, open-source, developer infrastructure, Web3 tooling, Solidity, Foundry, Hardhat, Truffle, VM compatibility, Stylus, WASM, RPC providers, blockchain development, public goods funding, hackathons, Hyperledger, off-chain computation, transaction simulation, security scanning, developer ecosystem, tooling challenges, sustainable business models
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-eH8qocs83a8
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH8qocs83a8

## Description

In this fireside chat at Pragma Prague 2025, Kartik Talwar sits down with Bogdan Habic, co-founder of Tenderly, to explore the evolution of Ethereum developer tooling. They discuss Tenderly's origins from a Serbian hackathon to becoming essential infrastructure, challenges in building dev tools for blockchain, and the delicate balance between open-source ideals and sustainable business models.

Habic shares insights on EVM compatibility issues, contract verification challenges, and why most computation should happen off-chain while using blockchain for verification.

00:00 Introduction to Bogdan Habic and Tenderly
00:49 Origin story: From public procurement hackathon to Tenderly
01:17 Transition from Hyperledger to Ethereum tooling
01:42 Tenderly's open-source roots and pivot
02:11 Early days of EVM tooling (2017)
02:35 Challenges of building dev tools as open-source
03:04 Debugging smart contracts in 2017
03:31 Inventing missing Web2 tools for Web3
03:56 Tenderly's current product suite
04:26 Security scanning for wallet transactions
04:54 Cost challenges in Web3 developer tooling
05:22 Why dev tools are infrastructure in Web3
05:50 Collaborative nature of blockchain development
06:22 Foundry's limitations in collaborative debugging
06:50 Unique challenges of shared database paradigm
07:18 Developer tooling as infrastructure
07:47 Biggest problems in Ethereum developer ecosystem
08:18 Solidity's limitations vs ecosystem needs
08:52 Debugging symbols and ecosystem growth
09:23 Overpromised timelines vs long-term value
09:51 Generational adoption of blockchain technology
10:22 Simplifying crypto for mainstream adoption
10:58 Evolution from Truffle to Hardhat to Foundry
11:26 Importance of learning from past tools
11:53 Open-source vs closed-source tensions
12:22 Business challenges of open-source dev tools
12:47 Monetizing public goods in Web3
13:16 Tenderly's path to open-sourcing
13:45 Foundry's success factors
14:12 Founder perspectives on open-source
14:39 Sustainability in dev tool businesses
15:10 Experimentation with alternative VMs
15:40 Ethereum's stability vs innovation tradeoffs
16:06 EVM compatibility nuances
16:35 Risks of VM incompatibility
17:06 EVM equivalent vs compatible confusion
17:36 Stylus and WASM experimentation
18:06 Contract verification challenges
18:39 Importance of source code visibility
19:06 Two benefits of contract verification
19:34 Debugging across smart contracts
20:04 Web2 vs Web3 debugging comparison
20:33 Advice for building complex on-chain systems
21:03 Verification over execution principle
21:38 Balancing on-chain vs off-chain logic
22:09 Scaling TPS vs developer growth
22:38 Future of off-chain compute
23:05 Closing remarks

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🇨🇿 *Pragma Prague*
Pragma Prague 2025 was held on May 29th at Holešovice Market in Prague, Czech Republic and was an in-person summit for builders and leaders in the web3 ecosystem. This event was in collaboration with ETH Prague. Watch the full Pragma Prague YouTube Playlist here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXzKMXK2aHh7vLS72NelQ2dOx2VgPNxJZ&si=UsHtX5roJ4R2R4_K 

ETHGlobal's Pragma series takes place in cities around the world, and is designed to be a different kind of event. Pragma is a one-stage conference with founders-only on stage, bringing together a small group of curated attendees and speakers to discuss the future of web3 and reflect on the past. 

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✅ Follow Bogdan Habic
X: https://x.com/BogdanHabic

✅ Follow Tenderly
X: https://x.com/TenderlyApp

✅ Follow Kartik Talwar
X: https://x.com/TheRealKartik

✅ Follow ETHGlobal
X: https://x.com/ETHGlobal​
Warpcast: https://warpcast.com/ethglobal
Website: https://ethglobal.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@UCfF9ZO8Ug4xk_AJd4aeT5HA 

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