# Fireside Chat I Joe Lubin, Consensys, and Kartik Talwar, ETHGlobal | Pragma New York 2023

- Speakers: [Kartik Talwar](https://streameth.org/speakers/kartik-talwar), Joe Lubin
- Channel: [ETHGlobal](https://streameth.org/ethglobal)
- Date: 2023-10-09
- Duration: 41:38
- Topics: Joe Lubin, Ethereum, Consensys, MetaMask, Infura, Pragma NYC, Layer 2, zkRollups, decentralized identity, attestations, SEC crypto, Web3 governance, crypto regulation, EAS, Linea, MetaMask Snaps, decentralized infrastructure, network states, zkEVM, dapps, DAOs, ETH Merge, crypto vs government, AI decentralization, decentralized future, ETH protocol, crypto policy, Web3 social, Consensys updates, crypto growth, decentralized trust, Ethereum roadmap
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-eYqkiwOfeyY
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYqkiwOfeyY

## Description

Joe Lubin, co-founder of Ethereum and founder of Consensys, sits down with Kartik Talwar at Pragma New York 2023 for a far-reaching conversation on the future of Ethereum, regulation, decentralized identity, and building in crypto’s most pivotal moments. From MetaMask and Infura’s decentralization roadmap to thoughts on the SEC, Layer 2s, attestations, ZK rollups, and the evolution of Web3 governance, Joe offers a masterclass in navigating the crypto ecosystem.

He explores the tension between governments and decentralized tech, the need for a base trust layer, the rise of decentralized social graphs, and how AI must align with decentralized protocols. This is a must-watch for builders, regulators, developers, and crypto-native thinkers.

00:00 Intro to Joe Lubin and Ethereum’s future
00:34 SEC, regulation, and decentralization
01:45 Why governments fear crypto’s trust model
03:17 Supreme Court, Ripple, and SEC overreach
05:01 How MetaMask navigates regulatory pressure
06:21 The clash of civilizations: crypto vs C5
07:54 Building tech under political resistance
09:18 Regulating use cases vs regulating protocols
10:44 Money crypto vs tech crypto explained
12:04 Ethereum’s scale after the Merge
13:20 Bitcoin doubts vs Ethereum confidence
14:52 What comes after disintermediation
15:26 Attestations and decentralized identity
16:47 Destroying Web2 social graphs with Web3
18:08 Why immutable attestations matter
18:42 Attestations as an unlock for developers
19:16 Why Joe founded Consensys
21:18 Consensys’ mission and paradigm shift
22:56 Redefining ‘enterprise’ in Web3
24:27 Global trust layers and treaty enforcement
25:03 Updates on MetaMask and Infura’s progress
26:34 Infura decentralization roadmap
28:39 MetaMask Snaps and plugin ecosystem
30:21 Decentralizing MetaMask governance
32:14 Why Consensys launched Linea L2
33:39 Regional blockspace and multichain future
34:20 L2 values, ethos, and ecosystem diversity
35:32 Shared sequencers and decentralizing L2s
36:18 Are we closer to network states?
37:00 Governance layers and DAO infrastructure
38:32 Why governance is so difficult
39:01 How Joe Lubin stays motivated
40:16 The risk of centralized AI power
41:05 Why decentralization is more vital than ever

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  

🇺🇸 *Pragma New York*
The fifth edition of Pragma took place in New York in September 2023 with a curated series of high-quality talks that sparked thought and discussion. Pragma is a one-stage conference with founders-only on stage, bringing together a small group of curated attendees and speakers to discuss the future of web3 and reflect on the past. Watch the full Pragma New York 2023 playlist here: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXzKMXK2aHh6xsRbmx2niHEDyOyt1mddu&si=6Ic960b2hQyz9RGw

ETHGlobal's Pragma series takes place in cities around the world, and is designed to be a different kind of event. Ever since we first introduced our new event series, Pragma, in Tokyo in the spring of 2023, we have been fostering a curated, global community of individuals who deeply care about web3. 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  

✅ *Follow Joe Lubin*
X: https://x.com/ethereumJoseph

✅ *Follow Consensys*
X: https://x.com/Consensys

✅ *Follow Kartik Talwar*
X: https://x.com/therealkartik
Warpcast: https://warpcast.com/kartik

✅ *Follow ETHGlobal*
X: https://x.com/ETHGlobal​
Warpcast: https://warpcast.com/ethglobal
Website: https://ethglobal.com
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ETHGlobal 

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _  

_Are you interested in Ethereum development and entrepreneurship?_
👉 Sign up for the next ETHGlobal event: https://ethglobal.com/events
🎁 Get exclusive access and perks with ETHGlobal Plus! https://ethglobal.com/plus
📣 Want us to throw an event in your city? Tell us where! https://ethglobal.com/city

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _