# Enterprise Blockchain 2025: Will YOUR Crypto Project Make the Cut? — ​​Sasha Pitkevich | EPAM

- Speakers: [Sasha Pitkevich](https://streameth.org/speakers/sasha-pitkevich)
- Channel: [ETH Belgrade Community](https://streameth.org/eth-belgrade-community)
- Date: 2025-10-09
- Duration: 1:03:02
- Topics: People & Blogs
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-h-47X6nGKY4
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-47X6nGKY4

## Description

Recording from ETH Belgrade Meetup #17 in Novi Sad

## Transcript

[Applause] thanks guys thank you for having me and it's kind of embarrassing to stay in front of that I think that I'm amazing because I'm here not in Denver already Yes and uh I was asked to talk like the the topic selected like when I uh asked what would be the audience and I was told that the audience are mostly developers I was like oh and I'm going to talk like uh to the developers about this but already started some talk I think that I might be relevant for you because uh the topic I was asked uh to clear for you is uh what Enterprises expect from a crypto market and how to reach Enterprises successfully and uh because of my position because I'm leading blockchain department at epom and I guess nobody knows what eom is but IAM is a big system integrator and we have the presence in many countries in the world and we're doing the traditional system integration work which means that we're doing it and we recognized of being a good engineers and I'm leading the blockchain verticle there uh which means that we delivering blockchain projects and our Market position is we are Between Worlds because we did quite some of the projects for the crypto market and for you guys or for the your friends and in some countries we did near we did like we did something for to and then we we are doing this stuff and you can bear us and our Engineers because of our engineering skills where they're not totally bad like I mean if you will work with the Indian guys from accent you probably would would cry or would say oh how how and and we are bearable but Enterprise loves us because we get skills from you and our engineers get skills from you and you like us because we can give you uh predictable delivery because you mostly like or probably not you but you're part of that and uh most of known for us Engineers are not really predictable like we like when we calling like when we're talking with your management or with the startup Founders it's normally a bunch of the Cowboys who are excellent excellent in skills in math and something but when somebody ask you about estimations and when it would be ready and especially how quality would be and all of that that's just lacking and that's Enterprises canot bear and uh we can help you extend the services so Enterprises and here that's that's how we know because our main bread and butter being honest for me the projects with the startups they're peanuts they getting skills for my people and then I can send those people to Enterprises and then they uh nicely shaped because we do have all the necessary services to sell those engineers and that's what I'm going to speak like basically that's why I'm relevant why I know how it works uh so when you are the start normally startups they have the that you have vendors you have a solution which you wants to be to be used and uh what you either go to the public market which means that it's peer-to-peer services and you have to run your services over the like main net and this either level two either services around this but sometimes vendors want Enterprises to use their services when it's a security when it's a development when they doing the wallets when you're doing whatever infrastructure projects and and something and and how and normally how it happens that the CE talks to somebody means that local business lead of the certain Enterprise and now I'm going to bother you and be annoying how do you think what do they expect to hear from SE to be able to buy they have money they need service they want to buy and there's a guy who is saying we have that any any ideas what do they want to hear depends on the culture and Country uh is different in Germany and different in Russia B Russia and that part like that part of the negotiations and pre-sale it's totally different do you think can you find any similarities like I mean if we are looking not in the exact wordings but what they really need request for proposal oh request for proposal what can it's a title what should be inside add on value for both sides yes first they want to see is what is the case what guys you are selling what we would be able what business we're running around this and the first thing is a use case who are the clients of like to whom we would be able to sell that or how it will extend our services so request for proposal is is is title what to put in a request for proposal because the majority of the CEOs of startups who are coming to the buying party started to speak about how wonderful their solution is those who listen to them normally have no clue what the solution and like it it can be very wonderful but why do I need it what I'm buying and first what you like if you are not able to say clearly for what your solution is suitable and how they will benefit of having your solution there is no discussion because that's where everything starts first is kind of use case and for me for example when those Enterprises are coming to me their main question is tell us about the use cases you can do and for me I'm normally laughing say come on I'm an engineer you as a business tell me what you need where are your pay points and I will facilitate I will produce the vendors to you but when you are offering services to Enterprises you should know surroundings you should know what is your service and how they would be beneficial how it would be beneficial for them to consume your service and to offer that to the generic Market you should be able to understand what is their business what are their clients and how are their clients would be benefiting of them having Your solution without that there is no discussion there are a lot of questions around that but that's like I mean I'm not going to read that what is the next question when you are able to protect what are you selling what would be the next question remember that's the business you are talking to guys who probably dump on a technical level but they running business successfully if they Enterprise that means that they're able to earn a lot of money security that's the technical stuff how much how much they that's like unwrapping that then first we started with the use case what then question how much but this how much and ring it's a business case first of use case what are we doing then how much much does it cost how much we would be able to earn how much we need to spend on that and how quickly we are going to earn again none of the discussions with the business possible without those two parts what we are buying and how we would earn money if we're buying that and you should be able to clear that very nicely for them and that's actually the most tricky point because normally while you're behind your solution you understand why you're creating this solution but the ability to quantify the business case that's the difficult one because they need to know not an abstract you would earn money they need to know how much how quickly and normally like you started with the part how much how much they will spend that's the part that that's normally the only part which start up now because you know how much you you want to be paid and that's what you are going to announce nobody's going to pay you if they don't know how much they will earn of buying you so you need to explain it to them or you need to work with them so they will understand that because I could imagine that for startup it's very difficult but if you able ble to do that you would be much more successful than than others because when you're coming with a quantifiable business case that's clear for the like they're not going to invest in you they're going to buy yes so they need to understand For What next one like you see almost all screen is already filled I will send the slides don't worry uh uh which means that it's not that much of the business discussion left like if you're here that means that you are already reasonably good if it still didn't kick you and didn't disappear in the discussion that means that you're going the right direction what else maybe deliv deadlines and the risks if you can quantify the risks that's a big thing for Enterprise that's the deeper discussion risks you normally discussing when they're ready to pay uh before that they need to understand if they're able to pay you and here because we all are in a crypto space they are the most tricky questions and those I will help you because this is are I mean Enterprise they do not work in a vacuum and that's the biggest difference you don't understand how Enterprise work to be able able to pay you first of all they need to be sure that it's legal because some of the things especially around Krypto are still illegal to do also they need to know that in a time frame they dealing with you like none of the Enterprises are able to pay within a week or within a two weeks you need to be prepared normally the time frame is like it's never faster than a month but normally takes three months that you will get your money after the signing the contract and you have somehow like if you dealing with the Enterprise it means that it's a public company when there's a public company it means like the tra will have the action it's means that they they are acting in a regulated space that means that your company have to be able to have business with them and they have to be able to get like besides the fact that you have to do the legal business it means that your uh documentation your legal part in your legal existence needs to be proved otherwise even if they already willing to work with you they're not able to and then most of the public companies have to prove that they dealing with you because you are the best one at the market and for that they need to do the research and for that they're also doing The credibility check or something with when they they need to look at your history which means that you it's it's nice that then you are able to to show that you your company is created not yesterday I had some hisyory had other customers because this all would be checked by Enterprise and this all is a part of their legal reviews of having the proper contract and you have to count for that majority of the startups they don't expect this like you call it bureaucracy you know call it as a Heche and how to work with them but that's the only way to work with them and you need to respect that but if you are getting like like you better prepare that and when you're coming to talk to to Enterprise and showing you the nice the business part and motivating them to work with you if you are helping them with their Administration they would be much more willing to work with you because trust me nobody likes this Administration part and if it can be simplified that would be nice so if you prepare that or if you do this that's good and uh another thing it's nowadays like depending of like in which country that was a nice one but in the majority of the countries we Enterprises of the size which is attractive for you to work with you would be asked the very strange questions and those very strange questions that's the common World agenda I mean I don't know if you've been in a situations with the discussions like why you ethereum community very frequently Enterprises accuse ethereum community that you guys not green and uh for majority of us we are laughing on that yeah because come on what what are you coming with us with this green electricity yes because Enterprise is kind of slow in their jesting majority of them have no clue about a merge majority of them have no clue but but they still you know read the marketing articles marketing articles saying that the Bitcoin is terrible and uh guys who are like like who are selling the weapon and drugs are using Bitcoin and the guys who ethereum they are killing the Earth because of the consumable like the electricity and that's you have to be prepared to answer those questions and to answer that using language Enterprise is able to digest and but it's nice when you do the homework and like how you will be going to answering those easg questions and all those questions about how like about the legality of like uh your background and about like another one which is really kidding me every time because like almost every director almost every C1 will say what about this these people who are complaining that they lost all their C in one day or something think about this think how you're going to answer that yes those other stupid questions but to be serious and to come like this one makes that kind of them motivated to work with you then your preparation your homework will make you reliable party to talk far and you are going to establish the good contacts with them because if you're going to have the business with them you will speak regularly you will be reporting to them or you would be like extending your business because after after the first contract you would like to extend and you would like them to recommend you and on that level like if you if you're taking all those boxes you're kind of good and then the question between C and the business buyer you would never talk to the with the COO of Enterprise you would never even see that you would be lucky to have the business owner to buy and actually by the majority of like vendors your goal is to to reach this business level because when the business motivated those people who have money technical guys they normally don't have money and the biggest mistake of all the founders all the startups when you sell to the technical people they're not decision makers they can recommend you it's majority they can like it's a maximum they can do but business those are people who are buying so those one are most important but The Next Step would be like let's see you succeed and then there's a part where your C or or whatever who does who does this type of the work is going to talk to it guys and here like the first surprise is there's no one it guy an Enterprise you will go and talk to many many people and you need to know what to tell them what they expect from you on the technical level it means that they're ready to buy then they're checking of how they're going to do that and how you're going to work with them and then again what do you think like here they I I heard some technical stuff give me some ideas what the technical people in Enterprise would like to hear about your service or about your solution or about your product something new like new service we don't have it for example we don't do like transferring we from web to some existing service so if it's same how it differs how it's like benefit to me if I move to web three from Web Two well you normally don't move to web two like like you don't move you normally enable web 3 like I mean you do not decom something when something new is not working and like you you have like you have like what probably like when we speaking about the web services try to think about like why we a product company like I mean we are something like the packaged Goods like hug boss whatever selling are the clothing are the toys we're selling something like I mean and we we have web two and we want web three and you talk to it department and there would be various people in it Department what they want to know about your solution you know what you want to what they want to hear and the Enterprise Integration good how it's it's it's it's important question how what you bring us will fit to what we already have and that's very important because none of the solution exist is in workum when Enterprise like try to imagine like about think about any Enterprise company you know Coca-Cola some Bank try to think what it what complexity of it they have inside and like any any company any Enterprise company has multiple Solutions which count Goods or or Services they offer then they have the solutions which count money then they have Solutions which count people and maintain data about the people and then if they have the different countries they have payroll they have jurisdictions in different countries reporting stuff and all of this like you all the technical people you imagine the complexity even of infrastructure behind this and then you are bringing them something new to their huge pile so they're thinking how you're going to integrate when when it's about integration they also would ask questions about the master data because we do have corporate data how you going to to use that even even even if you are totally separate even if you are totally new and almost in a vacuum you still need like every solution will'll still need to report to corporate accy how we will get that and you still need to get the corporate I mean addresses and something how and when it's web that means that somehow need to fit our corporate Styles or to be on our corporate hosting so yes that's that's very important I don't know in which order that's going to uh but it normally yes they are interested in money too because they are on boarding something and when it's un boarding cryp that means we un boarding bunch of the new technology we have no clue about and they like tell us like okay business told us that we have to buy from you tell us how much we need to pay you and for what and then they started to ask uh hosting storage licenses how you are doing that and uh and and the last ones like I mean if you're going to bring something it has to work in Enterprise that means that our Engineers for example needs to be able to recognize if it's working or not and when our customers will call us we have to answer something how are we going to do this like I mean you're bringing me something totally new I never tried that I don't have a resources how you are going to achieve that and here most of the startups are out of the business because you do you do support of your services you all think that we have the software we will ship it to you and you will be happy with that and Enterprise is like thanks for this wonderful gift and how I suppos to manage that I never seen any engineer who is able to understand the solidity code and you are selling me the solution which has a bunch of this how I would be able at least to understand and if somebody will call me where I would will go and you need to prepare the answers for that and especially like because like what if I will have the bunch of the hyper leure guys in front of me I will know what what to ons like how to help you to answer this question but if I have the ethereum guys I would say like okay and what are you going to say about the support are you going to do it yourself with your own Workforce or who is going to to to to and then think about Enterprise even if you able to to pass forth they thinking about every new addition to their application landscape and I'm using theprice terminology yeah how it will survive over the years one year 2 years 3 years how you do your release management how you will let us know that there are new versions how we will obtain new versions are you going to charge us for those new versions and and that's that's a top of the iberg because you think about your solution like you sell and you forget and they're thinking about we buy and it needs to survive next 80 years are you going to survive next next years are you going to promise me how you do your release management how you how we will let know how you will train us how you will support us what about bucks if we will find bucks and we will find bux we we have like like every Enterprise knows we worked so many years we know that all the software Solutions we buy a buggy what are we doing with bucks tell us where to call what are you going to answer them that's the very important question and when you selling to Enterprise you have to either to have a Partners either to have that you you have to have a good answer where they would go if they have issues also a lot of experienced Enterprises would also say us how we are going to migrate from your solution in the future I mean you will die in a month or in two or in three years what are we going to do with that how and you like you are part of the ecosystem and that's what is expected from the ecosystem that's what I'm constantly talking to ethereum ecosystem guys you have to talk to each other you have to work with each other because there are enough Solutions like what there are people who are offering products Services know each other ethereum has so many events there's a diffco there are all the adcs and something every startup owner every founder has to know what are are apps which are complimentary to our services because when you are coming with a solution has a bunch of the smart contracts in a public network while you're selling that to Enterprises you can say by the way those guys can offer you life monitoring of your smart contracts and that those guys can do for you the backup or those guys can do the hosting for you and those guys can manage the infrastructure if you are not going to do that yourself and if you are not going to enable enable Enterprise to do you also can offer them the training saying okay and those guys can train your developers how to support that and work with them and then the whole ecosystem will flourish but being one saying okay that's the nice P public solution in the public network get it I doubt you can find any Enterprise C saying okay we are happy with this wonderful gift because they have to to survive with that and also try to understand that the it of Enterprise is a very complex structure basically the it guys like where they have the developers like the security guys for them that's a separate service and they are normally not like well they know each other uh if they are friends that depends and the operational guys that's the third part so when you you are already in a project means that you are getting money you have to be sure that the implementation of your solution that the security guys are involved and the operational guys are involved because what you want like you must understand that when you have customers you want the Happy customers and you want those customers to love you if you will give something to the IT department you should buy that and then they're screwed and it's buggy and they cannot support that and the security is not offering that it means that it spend money business expects something from them and you cannot help them at all we will hate you and they will not return to you and you want to establish the good relationships which means that you have to help them to succeed and for that you have to know all those answers and there are a lot of that because well this one is important one which which normally expensive for the St startups which can be like you at least need to realize that and speak with the Enterprise and to be able to develop something on your side to be with them to understand them and here the most tricky part for the product or for the service solution is okay you have your first Enterprise client you are managing with them you're succeeding them and then you have a second Enterprise client and the first Enterprise client wants to go One Direction and the second one what's going in another Direction what are you going to do are you going to Fork your code how you going to the release management if they ask one functionality and they ask another functionality that's called Product strategy that's called road map and you'd better know how you are going to handle that before you get the first Enterprise client like at least you have to have an idea because if you're going to double your development then you're going to double a development like you know you have two Enterprises seems to be that you have money you're going to double your development and develop two separate project if you are going to have one product that's the point where you need to maintain your road map and strategy and communicate that with the Enterprise very well basically saying no to Enterprise when they demand certain functionality that's a tricky thing and normally what I've seen quite some of the designer startups who are able to do so saying like we have our own identity and we are going with that with the developers and especially in crypto space I have I I've seen less people able to do so unless you are very successful with having no Enterprise customers which means that we have a huge user base and a lot of Investments like and a lot of doing with the with the with the private customers means you defy yeah and if you like but but if you want the Enterprise to bank on your product means that you have a product or service which is targeting for Enterprises and here you have to have a product strategy and you have to understand how it's going to be and that's you know it's not not a development skill normally developer itself doesn't know and and he doesn't think in this category which means that you have to have a product people and those product people they actually help you on on a previous slide they can help you to articulate the use case and to understand who are your user and how you serving users that's the same people who think about what would be the next version of your product but you at least need to have those people in a team which is like who like you do you like I I want to see the hands who have the product owner in in a comp in a team I see one two three good are those people good that's like I mean I'm happy to see that in ethereum a system because I've seen a lot of startups who are doing the wonderful technical stuff like I mean the algorithms everything is a perfect one the polished cord almost no bugs and something but when you asking what's next they normally don't know and that's the cause of also the better architecture because it can be perfect for the moment but remember it still needs to survive 10 years 20 years 30 years and here the product people can help you like I mean yes for crypto Market that's uh we were speaking about that over the dinner saying that okay if you're a developer in a crypto space for 5 years you make enough money then you retire and enjoy the life but those people do not sit on the meetups how to sell to Enterprises because they're not interested at all this case so we are looking like well there's integration coming there then then we still like I heard about security yes like Security Guys in Arch seure guys I mean you won't be able to start development for Enterprise if there uh I would say Enterprise architect would sign your project normally how the projects Enterprise are done like there is an ingate structure but at the end there is a business person who is creating the project request and it's within Enterprise company and the business person protects with your help with the help of your CEO this business request inside the company and gets the corporate money and that's where the project starts and you do have the project set up and normally when you working Enterprise you can ask about the project documents at least to look what they expect and how their internal responsibilities how they their internal reporting because most likely they will expect from you uh like the weekly or monthly updates and you need to know in what terms they reporting to their management what is their steering committee in other words yes they have a steering committee where your business owner would be reporting of how you are going how you are spending the corporate money and when you get this project set up and you know how much they're going to spend or something then they're going to the to the Enterprise architect and those Enterprise architect needs to sign that you have the space in a Enterprise uh application landscape and what is your space and what are the architect Str principles you have to statisfy and here they're coming the wonderful words like the cloud first and something like this and uh the Practical information out of this like sometimes it's a beautiful words but you would know what is your Cloud how the like where the security parameters stored how they rotated and something majority of the startups sry to say that you understand where to to store the keys and how to store the ke uh of the clients but the overall security of your solution deployment very frequently lucky because you don't understand what's the Enterprise like you know like normally you do have your devops guys who are pretty sure that you managing everything but they forget that for example the administration Keys also needs to be rotated also needs to be stored properly also needs to be accessible for the other parts of the company this part normally you develop during the implementation because you needed to feed to the Enterprise landscape uh another nice part is they asking you how we going to scale a solution okay we have this set up but what if we have 10 more like 10 more times users how you propose us to do with that how and they look into that and saying our strategy is actually different can you help us to March it or like there are quite some of the questions which would be coming to you on a level before Enterprise architect signs that you can go it normally you have to tick the boxes and they have those boxes it's different by the company depends on what what they already have in the plate but the main like the questions are security parameters where they stored how they managed because they normally have their own solution another one is master data means that we have certain corporate parameters which you have to obtain and not only the data itself but also the data formats we store that at the Tim stamp and something in the certain formats you have to adapt to because in all our reporting it's like this either you have to connect to our ETL solution uh to convert it every time I like and and then the same like here you like your C or your architect will will align with that and finally you will obtain the signature of the Enterprise architect which initially will sounds for you like a bunch of the strange high level words at the end would be landed in quite some of the technical requirements which would be applicable for your solution if it's not SAU if if if if they just going for you for the short on IP address that that's just another thing and then they will ask you how they maintain that how they will be sure that you always answering on these other days and you like answering with the expected outcome but uh if it's if it's the technical solution they will ask you how to manage that and then there would be the most tricky part uh like for the implementation people I guess for the people who are sitting here because there would be security guys who would be asking you about attestation about the monitoring about the law how does it fit uh and they normally they have corporate monitoring and logging Solutions and you will have to supply information for them because they're not going to change they loging monitoring because of you no because why if if if they're sizable they have their maintenance and support department which is basically the room where they people they 24/7 there are screens there they beeping they are so showing something but but your solution needs to be boarded for that and uh normally you developers needs to basically I think when the Enterprise has a strong it means that you just needs to give them API and the data formats and they will do everything for themselves that would be the cost for the overall project it would be cost for Enterprise but that's easy for you in some cases we will say no we tell you our API and you develop the services which will microservices which will report and then you will have to B and the worst one which will came the last and you better call them the first are the guys who signed for operations because you passed all of that you your solution is working you passed the testing you passed the user acceptance you you you persuad business like the wrong think and then then I will tell you a story which is like user acceptance yeah you all who are behind your technical solution think that a client is interested to do the user acceptance and to check the solution I once was a project manager who was deploying the solution for km website and you could imagine that the km website prices of the tickets something important that I was a junior project manager who was thinking that they interested to test and we did the solution then we ran the U we didn't pass U because the quality was lacking and I thought that okay then I'm coming to the steering committee and saying well we need to extend U for another month we will fix the bags when I came to the steering committee said we're going live tomorrow I was like how like it's bugy they saying yes but your development services cost this much and your support services cost 50 % of that no we go life today and then you will fix everything for the health price you have to be prepared for that business always count their money and uh either like what there are different styles in Enterprise business but when they like like the operational department is the most tricky to sell your services because they will say oh we have the people who needs to know your solution you need to present you need to teach us and you need to reserve time to teach them what is going to be and either you need to pass the skills either you need to have this supporting part in you and they will call you and bother you and like and unfortunately without those guys signing Your solution you cannot go live which means that your client cannot benefit and get everything which we we speaking on First and it's still Enterprise yes and when you obtain the wonderful like what when your business owner will obtain the wonderful signature that you can go to operations then appear to be like like the go life date and then normally the Enterprise will have they differently they call it C over they call that gray Peri or something your solution is going like to get the real users and normally you are entitled as a vendor to support them going life for the certain period of time because I mean they still knew they still don't used to your solution and so your developers has to be available and have to support them and go in live we always like I mean know we all just needs to be happy because they they decided to go live and uh uh Enterprise normally I've seen the solutions which are going live months depends on the amount of the users depends on their strategy of going life are they going with the internal users with it depends actually on your service what you're going to do yes uh but still it needs to be planning it needs to be cut over and you still needs to be involved and when you like remember yes the cost and initially business case all those Services you need to count for them like if they will come as a surprise for you which means that you will get less money you like working with Enterprise you will need to understand that all those steps will take place and for all those steps you you need to discuss the pricing you need to discuss your services otherwise you screw and actually when Enterprise is talking to Startup they have no clue that you don't know because what they work like they used to everybody knows that we work like this and you need to ask in advance and sometimes like you you're scared to ask because it seems to be that you asking for more money but when you don't that means you will not get this money and you still they will expect you to do to provide the work and then you will have the tough discussion at the end and you like that's the maintaining of the relationships when you're going to discuss that when you're going to price for that but you have to have in mind that it will happen and that goal life is not like no they plan for that they have extra people they TR people that is going and then there's a gray period and then like I still remember Web Two to web three when both are existing that's a good thing when one needs to be decomissioned that's another thing because again that's that's probably you won't be involved in that because you didn't create this part but it will affect the business case it will still the whole money which business user obtain to the dealing with you the part of that will go for those guys who are decommissioning something which is existed and you need to be aware about this well at the end it might be not your business not your border and then a business owner will deal with that but at least you have to be aware that it's it's happening or at least you need to know because it's a risk management that's this risk management part of this and and yeah the last thing which I'm speaking about the risk management is you always have to keep those risks for yourself and if you have the good relationships with your business owner discuss it frequently because again speaking about the hidden cost you will talk to them frequently if that's Enterprise you will spend your own precious time if you are the CTO or CEO or if you are like if you have the biggest startup if you are the project manager there or you're a project manager your implementation project manager Enterprise unfortunately needs a lot of information about ongoing project and you think that it's a stupid bureaucracy but for them it's how they sign the money normally Enterprise for the every implementation project have the stage Gates and you have like to unlock the next part of the payment to you you have to pass a stage gate passing the stage gate you have to prepare report you have to speak about that means a lot of time speaking means preparation time means doing the presentations which you not used to do and for them they simply not able to to bypass them because their stakeholders would expect it from you uh that's actually it for now and that's the the part of the content which is basically what I try to to do is just expose this wonderful wor of the Enterprise companies and how they do their business to the people who used to work for the startups or who works to be independent uh software professionals so I'm here to answer the questions if if you are interested in this Aquarium of how Enterprises live I can give you some extra information if you have questions this is why they buy IBM right because IBM has all this stuff what what that's why they buy services from us for example because we know your Solutions we can work with you and we can protect you from all those because we have the salese who can wear the proper clothes into then and we know how to talk to the steering committee simply we have templates to report a steering committee with all those red and the green we know what to say we know what to ask we know how to deal with the security and we can wrap that basically the system integration work is a work of raping the vendor stuff to be suitable for Enterprises and it means ripping on all levels on a technical level to get all the microservices for monitoring on for integration of for the apis or something and uh also ripping your Communications and Reporting delivery management and something and that's basically our bread and butter how how we survive like like basically we also do sometimes Solutions where like products or sometimes clients wants to have the product development inh housee or but but but rarely like I mean less and less and especially like you know guys I'm say like Java development or something like they they do extension of their existing products I do not know many Enterprises who are motivated to do the the the products onum EOS system they can play with that normally they Innovation departments means the buckets of like 50k per 3 month are doing some kind of the play but in terms of introducing services to their users they normally do not take this responsibility they actually looking for the vendors to provide them their services but they would like to have the service means come to them with the guys who will do the security audits come to them with the guys who will do the life monitoring of your contracts like if you will come to them and to explain to them how they are going to leave with all this new world they would love you that's the key how it usually takes to close a deal with all those apps half a year yeah half year something that more okay and one more question uh what is the biggest Enterprise you know that implemented to their customers because how you how you like how do how you think about like biggest in terms of what whatever what any the best case you know that Bigg implemented web a do whatever a do Nike Nike with all those communities inv all all those nfts and all those fights for the new sneakers like when Nike I think in terms of like you know biggest in terms of money it's strange because for example do Shaban invested huge and who needs those nfts and when we're speaking about web 3 I think Nike would be the really nice case because they used web 3 for the purpose of web three they they understand how it works they build it a community then they introduce it the community and they use it for purpose I like their their case and we are usually using that till teaching other Enterprises how to use that and when you say web three I mean I'm I'm not thinking now about crypto yes because like when we're speaking about the Investments and the money related projects there are bigger projects but if we're speaking about the web free services and again guys I'm not talking to you about the Asian ones because in Asia web three is native like if you will go to the Korea if you will go to Hong Kong and something like I mean I I have in my mobile the bunch of like we have the marketplace for our free services and all those sweet charts with the shops and something like uh for me I'm in Hong Kong I do have this my link application which has underlying like decentralized database of the service and benath and everyone introduces the service is there everyone introduces these you know the the self evolving bears and some all the taas and and basically the key here that if you're asking about Mass adoption the Telco company gives you with the SIM card the application where you register your sim card and that's immediately create you account and create your wallet and then it started to beeping blinking offering your Services offering your loyalty and all of this you have no clue that there is a decentralized ler on benef of that but it's all like you're passing the mall and it tells you by the way you can buy the coffee for those points or suddenly I was talking like suddenly like my uh like I'm doing some dancing and my dancing teacher says by the way you can pay the part of your monthly fee by those points they simply introduces the service and there are vsy weeks to do this and and that means Mass adoption because like everybody's using that there's a ledger have no clue that is blockchain they don't care they care about their services about the whole bunch of these Tela customers almost a whole country and Metro tickets and together with the Metro tickets while you Wai in the train then there a scheduler then they return you some points like totally like the kids much more native to that I'm lost I I have the sounds of those points and sometimes when it's blinking think okay I can cut the cost but it's all of above three and that's now it started to also have all these advisors AI in terms of the design in terms adding you like when you taking the video that started to add some you know additional video improvements video filters and it's always using points at the end that's the marketplace and a big Bor system wide where that's easy to introduce the new services and I would say that in Asia it's already happened we have all our life in our mobile phones and much more than I I can consume in my life but in in Europe and then in America that's still it's the next step and that's where for example you you you guys in eum ecosystem can look it's basically enabling ecosystem Services easiness of introducing new user services and and the nice examples and the nice examples and then to use the marketing guys to make it Vero we had like like for China you know Chinese New Year we had in Minecraft when you are running there finding these red envelopes they're getting you money and then you can use it in the central land and something it's all were connected and it's all was the games when you just like come on it's even here and um yeah that's this is you know sometimes you are on ethereum event and you can see those weird guys who offering their services and sometimes they sh and the key for the a system is to have this all connected and I'm not saying now because it will take years to have the same the same API you don't need it you need the data storage which you already have you have level one you have your contracts you can get the data and then just introduction the services introduction Services tools that's it it's it's an interesting angle uh because the way I see uh it's not it's not a community thing because the has a great community of people who are connected by ideas and Builders and and so on and so forth It's just that the entire crypto and crypto is the thing that's pulling web tree web Tre is barely anything without crypto I guess Enterprise blockchains and stuff but um it was chasing something else because the token is the product uh the token is the product which makes billions right now and not so much but we need to go past that uh you will still need to explain to the market why they need a token and for a lot of crypto projects that's a struggle and basically you better introduce the service in a value than the token and nobody cares what the talken and beneath that uh I mean nobody cares about the name of the token for you that's difficult because well everybody who thinks about the token thinks about like what first we Define the token then we're thinking how to distribute it how to persuade people to have that that's a bad idea introduce the service and they want to use the service and for that they need to talk reach into the choir here this is not the room it's just like we had a very interesting psychosis that may be subsiding for a while which is no the token is the product the product is the shitcoin itself everything else all this is 2 trillion and this is 200 billion trillion that's why but I'm I'm very interested in in actually building things that people will use so maybe something like this can actually be much better than what we have right now guys that's why ecosystem and where it is and Enterprise where it is because remember where we started Enterprise f thinking about the use case first who needs that and why they don't even start to move they don't start even to discuss the business case before they understand the use case size of the market and what is going to be and only after that there is a discussion unfortunately the technical guys in the majority are thinking about we have a hammer where is the nail and that's the problem we are solving for years because we first invented the technology then we started to think how to apply that normally business work differently business has a problem or idea and then thinks what technology will statisfy that we unfortunately like majority of you are coming from we know the technology nobody like on the first slide I had this one nobody cares that there is a sort on the centralized ler beneath that they care about the service they care about the product what they would be able to tell their customers what they would be able to achieve nobody cares that this ethereum is in benath or any decentralized leer if it works it works if it's not it not so on this stage you are not even coming that your a crypto company you better not say that because in many many count R there are the superstitions like like when you are saying that you are blockchain you have to overcome all those superstitions you have to explain all of that and if you are coming that your customers would be able to do this this and this and by the way their kids sitting in the PRS would be able to play with that while they doing shopping they will say ah that makes sense and how you will make it happen will come on the next stage where we're already motivated to talk to you and you cannot come to them saying we have a nice like unless you're selling to it and when you are selling to it it services for example we are selling devop scalable infrastructure for the certain stuff then you can sell there but again even for those guys you start with the business value they start with your it is struggling and here here here and I they recognize it and say yes our it is struggling or they say no sorry our it is not struggling then we are not talking to you it's always start with the business and to come with them with the idea that we solve your problems and we don't have a problem more questions more days no I guess we had a nice time y thank you really I have another one which is like come on I I need to go farther because basically what like we started at the beginning that we have a community or something guys we actually uh going to have right eth Bill grade we are going to have five days of online conference means it's online you all invited some of you already presented of our conference last year and we are opening call for speakers if you are Professionals in E system if you are vendors if you want actually Enterprises also to know about your services about your business products come to us to present we have five days and we have the different topics and that's that's here which topics we have but I'm sure I'm designing that I'm sure that we can fit any topic inside if it's it's about so I will leave it like this if you want to come to us to speak we would love it and you have a nice uh environment because we have the people from Enterprises we serve Enterprises and they used to listen to us I mean you know that there are like the people who connect you to funds and to investors we are to connect you to Enterprises because we we are trying to basically it's another it's my own probably pain when we have the developers uh those developers need to talk in ecosystem to understand and you probably have less problem because your developers are ethereum developers my developers are developers of everything and they have to be able to do reple they have to be able to do the ethereum they have to be able to do hyperledger and I have like I'm trying to keep them relevant which means that I want them to talk to you and to the other guys and something and and that's why we are doing the community that's why we are inviting more and more people in the community that's why we have like it's probably the only blockchain professionals not investors Community which is across the Technologies that's why the people from Enterprise and Enterprise it sending their developers to us to the community saying read there listen there look there because that's their source of the information otherwise they they will know only for those who who wants to talk to them that's not necessarily which which which extends is their world over you so you all welcome and you're welcome to present yep thank you