# Humans of Crypto #1 with Matt Aaron

- Channel: [CryptoCanal](https://streameth.org/cryptocanal)
- Date: 2021-10-07
- Duration: 1:06:56
- Watch: https://streameth.org/watch/yt-iGESghvv5aU
- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGESghvv5aU

## Description

In our first episode, we welcome Matt Aaron, a crypto entrepreneur who’s led the Bitcoin.com Podcast and is now the CEO of UniWhales. Dive with us to learn more about his career, how to join crypto, his first interview with Roger Ver, his experiences in Latin America, NFTs and of course his object, for us to remember him by! 

00:00 Intro
03:04 Passing the torch
05:40 Foundation of UniWhales 
10:15 How to join crypto?  
14:34 First interview with Roger Ver
17:50 Ethos of crypto
21:22 Visa USDC  & Coinbase commerce
28:30 Asia about money, not ideology 
33:23 Where to start? Start reading 
38:30 Lebanon - capital control 
42:23 Bitcoin Cash House Venezuela
43:57 NFTs Hashmask 
54:18 Native token on BCH
57:17 Show & tell
1:01:00 Make a 100 episodes 

Matt Aaron 
Twitter https://twitter.com/mattaaron
CEO UniWhales https://uniwhales.io/

🎙Humans of Crypto https://cryptocanal.org/humansofcrypto/ 
Odysee https://odysee.com/@cryptocanal:2
Anchor https://anchor.fm/cryptocanal
Breaker https://www.breaker.audio/humans-of-crypto 
Cast Box https://castbox.fm/app/castbox/player/id4101862 
Google Podcast https://bit.ly/2SHNoTj
Apple Podcast https://apple.co/3y2t8f8
Pocket Cast https://pca.st/4odg1x11
Radio Public https://radiopublic.com/humans-of-crypto-WwegzX
Spotify https://open.spotify.com/show/7JOFEdybzdhhIgDDZmCZ3v


🌳Support us: https://cointr.ee/blockblanc
💕Join our community: https://t.me/CryptoCanalCommunity

## Transcript

[Music] hello everyone i am delighted to say that today i had the pleasure to have the wonderful matt aaron as a guest on the humans of crypto podcast who've just discussed a whole bunch of things basically from his experience at bitcoin.com as the podcast host of humans of bitcoin his experience with you know house cash venezuela and his experience as well right now with uni wells we shared a lot of tips about the industry he shared his favorite object in the show-and-tell and i'm it was really an honor to have him as our first guest and he challenged me to invite him again on the 100th episodes of humans of crypto enjoy welcome to this humans of crypto podcast i'm so happy to be joined by the one and only matt aaron we're here to discuss everything about him and more matt thank you so much for being here thank you so much for having me eleanor um yeah happy to be here yeah why why are you here why why do you think we had to i think there was one specific topic that i wanted to talk and i was you're passing the torch right here today yeah so when i got into crypto three or four months in i joined bitcoin.com and had an incredible experience there i worked there for two years i ran the podcast network as well as biz dev in central and south america and in doing that i created a network of shows one of them was called humans of bitcoin and the idea was to cover the human stories not so much focused on the technology or the price which was or the news like some other shows until the human store is behind uh bitcoin um along with katie who you know was there for the first season and we did i don't know like five or six seasons i can't remember quite a few episodes and talked to so many different people from like the og's like benay lingam and eric voorhees to um apollo ono the olympic champion to lynn albrook the mom of ross albrecht i mean i'd have to look at the list but quite a few few people and it was really eye-opening for me and then you reached out to me a month ago and said hey i want to start a show called humans of crypto not bitcoin the human is a crypto uh which is i think life on crypto and humans and crypto were other potential titles for it and i was like yeah i'd love someone um as talented yourself to like keep this thread of human stories going on because there are hundreds of crypto podcasts out there but i think there's not enough focus on the human stories and then you have the unintentional human stories which is about 80 of crypto podcasts they just think they need to ask this because they haven't studied interviews they should say so tell me how did you get into crypto but the podcast is about investing or something else and it doesn't um it doesn't really flow so i i'm i'm excited to be here and i don't think i even need to pass on the torch but it was just nice to reach out and it's cool it's cool to be interviewed every once in a while and have a conversation um with someone as lovely as yourself this time you're in the guest spot and i guess of you know of course i want to tell the stories and i remember being influenced by your your work like your podcast and i i must be honest i didn't listen to the 231 episodes i have a lot to live up to but i obviously for me this was content that i just absorbed i just loved it i loved hearing the stories i love hearing more about the people i usually do it in person but due to everything that's happening this year we can't do it anymore and yeah i just i had to reach out to you i was like i need to ask the creator of the humans of bitcoin if i can do humans of crypto um yeah so yeah thank you so much for being here it's just it's it means a lot i think to have like someone like you who has seen so much has known so many people to yeah to be able to talk about your story and yeah what you've been doing basically in crypto well there's not a shortage of stories so i'm not worried about you having content for the podcast one thing i'll say is some of the best stories people don't want you to tell and usually for for good reason but there's amazing stories that can be told and maybe you can elicit them over over some wine or get them to share um do i need to get you drunk for this i haven't included alcohol in the podcast it's like okay grab your shot we're gonna start cracking open no you know it's only one o'clock here having said that if i had a glass of wine right here i'd probably drink it uh but but yeah no i i'm i'm gonna be as open as candid as possible it's candor has kind of been my uh just my style um just being very open about things in general as a heuristic but you know why am i here today so i i left bitcoin.com at the end of 2019 and i'm still in it but i've been in the food business for a long time i have a food podcast that's how i got into podcasting and um exporting fruit anyway i uh i had some tokens left over from the 2017 boom and in august last or july or august last summer i was checking them and it's very painful because you put in you know they all went down to nothing the only couple hundred dollars left and there was one token that had actually was up 7x i wasn't dead yet i was like wow i have a 7x return you know i bought maybe two eighth worth and had 14 ether or something like that um and i used uni swap for the first time and then i realized oh wow this is it this is the future some of the promises of decentralized exchanges um in this case an automated market maker but the point is like you know an actual decentralized exchange it's working and that brought me back into d5 and here i am um you know co-founded a d5 analytics community and accelerator um and going full steam ahead on that and it's been a roller coaster ride over the last four or five months so yeah i did leave crypto and kept an eye on it but um so you say that so just for those that don't know because you have actually haven't said the word it's called uni whales like you should go and check it out it's a very smart name by the way because you have it's it's it has everything it's you know uni sushi swap unit swap everything and then uni whales i think it's a very you know you're in that continuation of that market it's very smart um maybe you can tell us a bit more like how do you how do you create something like that how did you obviously you saw that coin that had you know wasn't dead and you thought wait maybe other people want to see that their coins aren't dead like what what were you trying to do here so basically so i should say i i'm technically co-founder but i didn't come up with the idea the idea was teamer uh my co-founder who started a channel it was just a telegram channel tracking the large trades on uni swap but i was the sixth subscriber to the channel we have 8 100 now and we just started going back and forth some feedback on what it could do and then we decided to make a token gated access where if you get a premium version that would give you access to a token gated telegram chat which we call our dao as well as access to the web app with access to content you know i continue to do interviews of top people on community calls you know keeping the i got to use this expensive mic system right and um you know it's gone pretty well we've got a community of over 300 paid members and a pretty select unit i'd say and knowledgeable whether it's devs builders investors all over the world and just the power of a community that helps guide you know guided the development of a data analytics app and that's the the central theme of what we're doing and at what point you know how can i how can i join now is it telegram as in so as a user i would say like telegram join the dow and as an investor just hit you up like how does that work so no so as a investor or user you can just go on to sushi swap or uni swap buy 5000 uwl tokens and and basically what it does is uh we use something called collab land that verifies you have that many tokens in your wallet and that gives you access into the the web app uh and the telegram channels we also have a whale version we call it oil tier which is 16 000 tokens but um and so if if you are and that also we also have token gated content so for interviews you have to to watch one of our interviews you have to prove you have the tokens to get access but the cool thing is um and this is very experimental if you decide that uni whales isn't for you or you don't have the time except or etc you just sell your tokens and you get your your tokens back which obviously can fluctuate with the price of of ethereum but um that's it it's token gated access to our app and community great just do you have like any when you say dow does that mean that you use it for governance as well of your own product do people vote on stuff or is that not where you right now it's benevolent dictators are long term we want to go to a dao but it's very complex having decentralized governance so it's a very light dao um in the way we use that word but in the long term yes we will have more voting in more complex complex features and capabilities but right now it's more just a token git telegram chat where the members get to suggest features and then we decide which ones to implement so we have a really good feedback loop there but it's definitely not uh governance at this point all right that's it's interesting so this is obviously what you're in right now you're full into this uh uni wells and this is the result i should say of several years of entrepreneurship and years in crypto that have led you to basically found this new product right this wasn't was this always on your roadmap did you know that you would at some point like how how do you how do you stumble or get to this position basically where you're creating a platform with hundreds of thousands of users yeah so uh kai uh who works it who worked with me at bitcoin.com he was a journalist here he he sent me the group as soon as it launched because he knew i was getting into d5 analytics with another buddy he's also in our dao and so you should check out this channel i just got addicted to the channel so i mean there was a lot of luck there uh a ton of luck that i got introduced and it was just something that i was using like 10 hours a day i was just following these trades so you know when like you like something a lot like it's usually a decent sign that other people might find it uh useful and that's how i got in and and you know the timing was right you know we still got a long way to go and we're early stage but um i just like any startup right i think the you know there's no short thing 90 of these things fail but we feel like we have some momentum and a nice culture brewing so we're going all in on this and we're gonna you know lay it out we're gonna continue to lay it all on the line and try to to make this thing a a long-term sustainable ecosystem it's it's so interesting that you said that you were one of the first users and so you really seen it grow and i think when you're passionate about what you're creating and you know the product and you feel like you needed it you thought wow this is amazing and now you're part of it um i hear a lot of people right now they're reaching out to me and saying i'm thinking of joining crypto i don't know how this works you know where can i apply and i just tell them just just it's kind of weird it's kind of just go out there stumble upon something stumble upon a team you really like would that be a good you know tip for someone that wants to join crypto like what would you do yeah two things one is just using you not to put a ton of money into it but try using these products is the best way to learn like i have a buddy of mine who wants to sell his coffee business and he's like i need to like i want to put it into bitcoin and i'm going to figure out if there's other things i can do here because he's been in the coffee game for a long time and it's quite difficult um exporting uh coffee and selling to you know it's a whole whole thing the coffee business is one of those romantic things that's actually very very hard like it's like starting a restaurant you know it's like everyone started a restaurant but it's very hard to do anyway he's like i should buy bitcoin he's like i want to put like 150k and i was like dude you should just buy two thousand dollars worth today put it into a wallet play around with it and understand it because just to do all this like academic you know intellectual research and then make the decision do i buy 150k or zero i don't think is the way to go about it i think just experimenting and learning and trying um the cool thing about all these projects you find one you're interested in you can join the telegram or discord and just hang out people ask your questions the leader of the project will be there to answer questions i think that's the only way to do it is just dive in head first and and learn and also it's like people say i want to make money in crypto yeah maybe you can invest and if obviously if you have an investing background that's possible um but maybe you should just get a job and get your salary in crypto which is pretty much what i did i mean my my early stage investments into crypto probably broke even or maybe did okay because i got some early ethereum but you know many losses and was very amateur in the 2017 but getting paid at bitcoin.com i had a monthly salary coming in so i think if you can get paid in crypto that's that might even be the best way because you're working full-time so you're learning you're getting paid to learn and um you're earning your crypto you don't even have to outlay any cash for it so i still think that's an underrated thing and there are so many jobs in crypto right now um and you don't even have to be a developer if you're listening you're not a developer that's that's okay obviously if you're a front-end or back-end developer um it's almost it's easy to get a job but there's so much demand out there they need that ui ux design as well um but also you know communications sales marketing biz dev there's you can find it if you really want it yeah it's definitely an industry where it's like just go get it it's kind of scary it's kind of yeah just go jump just just go swim you'll find people or other fishes that are like you or another team that you know you're sensitive to and it's difficult i think for a lot of people that come from the normal or like the fiat industry it's more like you know they want to apply to something they want to know that they have the right credentials they want to make sure that they have everything lined up it's quite scary for people that are leaving like a really a nine-to-five job they know crypto's cool but they it's that jump and it's then it's like yeah there's this whole philosophy of kind of it's permissionless it's open and you also see it in the job market i think it's more like it's not about your credentials it's not really about it's more about who you are and your skills and if you want it then you can make it it's it's very it's a lot of freedom and independence as well which can be very scary uh but look at you here now you had a wonderful cryptic career at bitcoin.com and now you're at uni wales can you i want to roll back a bit the machine and say what was your first encounter with crypto like what was that first moment can you remember is that just so i remember being told about it but like the first like also it's kind of funny it's very polemic but like the the first like decent money i made on crypto was betting on donald trump to win the 2016 election so i found the site that accept bitcoin and so prediction markets this is how you got in it was a betting market that accepted uh you know such a bitcoin at the time but yeah like i um but when i really started to learn was in in 2017 and uh yeah i've told the story before where i was having some rough times in the fruit business took a free course on cryptography started learning about bitcoin and then i i started my own hobby podcast called five minute crypto we had like i don't know maybe 18 to 24 listeners total and i interviewed roger revere um in december 2017 and a week later you know because it was pretty just that was a bull market time yeah come on start a podcast network okay uh you're hired and i joined bitcoin.com but really where i got into crypto was with the two years i spent it at bitcoin.com wow what's the can you tell us more about that first interview with roger vera i think for those who don't know a bitcoin jesus i mean i'm not sure who out there doesn't know roger vere but can you tell us more about who he is yeah roger veer is back in the day in like 2011 he was the only biz dev investor in bitcoin blockchain.com kraken z cash ripple uh bitpay he was the only guy and he was he still is adamant about bitcoin but now adam and by bitcoin cash i mean it definitely fell off in terms of the overall community i would say it fell off as in you know he definitely entered a different niche when he continued with bitcoin cash which he would claim his bitcoin's original vision i don't like talking about too much because i'd rather have people debate the tech and it's become such a like a hateful like polemic thing um i love it let's let's dive into the scalability debate this is a big blockers podcast this is fine but like i think roger is such an emblematic figure and then also cr you're right invested in so many companies that are here today and are making part of the ecosystem and then bitcoin.com which was a big part of your life right that where you learn so much but uh we we owe to roger and he of course inspired so many of us but i just wanna i'm wondering about that first interview what it must have been like to to have him there you know like so yeah well when i started bitcoin.com i didn't really know much about bitcoin cash and so i it was a it was five minute crypto so tell us about bitcoin cash in the five minutes and and then i and i asked him about how does someone get involved with bitcoin cash in this last this is why i got the job is because his last answer was um just get a job at you know at a company that pays in bitcoin cash so literally two of my listeners reached out to me of the 20 like there's very few listeners a five minute crypt i said who like pays people on bitcoin cash for a job and so i literally i i should find this email if i emailed roger that question he said bitcoin.com you're looking for a job and i said yeah well i have podcasting experience maybe i can build a podcasting network literally a week later i started three weeks later i'm at the very um wild it's run by a guy a canadian guy that lives in in amsterdam uh the the miami bitcoin conference like the the bitcoin conference that was like you know january every year in in miami um wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait i interviewed him for humans a bitcoin uh what's this guy's name amsterdam dev miami he's like a it's called it's the i feel like i should know him wait i'm not i'm not licking the dots the miami bitcoin conference it's the the mining the north american bitcoin conference the yeah the north btc miami founder i can tell you his name this guy he's like a mover and shaker um originally from bo levin is his name he's he's i think he married a dutch girl lives in amsterdam now this the name is familiar but i don't think i've had the chance to meet him so moe levin he's been doing events like almost 10 years now i think and anyway so that's where it started but but yeah and and so i i joined that world and was part of it for for two years and it was incredibly interesting experience it's really you know thanks to that that i got all these connections and learned from the inside out because they're very well you know bitcoin.com still is very well connected um so yeah i mean yeah do you think it shift it shaped your view of crypto or what crypto should be like the ethos or the philosophy behind watchers i learned a lot about ideology and i think that um i try to be very careful to say like what crypto should be i have what i want it to be i don't know if it should be because there's all these like second third and fourth order effects and the way it turns out is different i have someone you know i um i just still feel it's so early and i i'm i have a little bit less conviction in what i'm doing that's why i'm working on analytics app we're just tracking all these protocols and i can't tell you which one's going to to win out um you know i love the peer-to-peer payments i think i always will and i think anyone listening to this podcast would would agree with that like you know web3 payments uh in general i um you know i have i mean i'm definitely motivated by frustration of using the banking system just how limited is all the paperwork everything that takes and you know i don't think i need to convince other people listen that podcast either i mean i think those two things are there i think cutting out middlemen and faster cheaper i'm someone who you know especially working in the the columbian fruit business is just allergic to all this like paperwork and red tape it's just it's really soul-crushing for me so i had to fill out forms and call and send faxes and signs well that's that's verify your social security number four times and all this stuff to send a ten thousand dollar payment it's like that i just wanted to be boom boom boom and so i i like the innovation of finance and i think it's incredible and the d5 definitely opened things up to me too just to see all these different um financial protocols working together uh whereas in the traditional world you know they're kind of all siloed and working against each other so it's just so much faster the way it way it develops um but but yeah like i is that a does that give you a decent answer there or there's no i don't there's no good or bad answers it's just i think when we talk about retrovirus bitcoin.com bitcoin cash in general when we put those three things together we automatically think about peer-to-peer electronic cash and we think about you know decentralized payments and borderless beautiful world where anybody can send receive cryptocurrencies and have internet magic money and you're right it's so much more right with d5 we've this i mean so for for decentralized finance in general and with decentralized exchanges and all these innovations that are happening in bch is just part of it but it's not the whole cake i i or or is bch the whole cake and d5 just a distract so people would would argue that i i think it's everything right so we need everything we need one that is cheap we need cryptocurrencies that are cheap to send and we also need automatic market makers so we need i i want it all you know i i want the beautiful d5 world to succeed and it's already succeeding with volumes that we would never have imagined just two years ago and today they're surpassing coinbase and and all the centralized exchanges are like how do we stay relevant do we compete we can't okay okay next so it's really interesting what we're seeing um but the idea still the ideals the philosophy of cryptocurrencies i know you don't want to talk maybe too much about the ideology and oh yeah right it is it is early it is early you're right it's time let me tell you a story that kind of goes that tangible story so like the whole like visa is going to use usdc to settle payments i do understand if you look at a diagram of how like what happens when you pay with a credit card and how many different processors and things it does make sense uh logistically on the back end but then i was able to talk to some people that had invested in circle and they they they were speaking with the visa team they're like yeah this is very similar to 2017-2018 this is not like the ceo and like the top people and visas integrating usdc this is just like you know some random division of three people on like the kuala lumpur or some i'm just whatever city office kind of experimenting with it's not like ustc is an integral part of visa and that's where my peer-to-peer cache comes in i'm like listen you can use um there's plenty of apps for this but i think the easiest one is coinbase commerce right now any website can or person because you can create payment links excuse me can you use um coinbase commerce it's non-custodial you can accept bitcoin cash ethereum uh usdc litecoin bitcoin um right now without having any tech or coding experience like that to me is still the thing so i so you're coin based commerce versus bitpay like do you have experience with those guys yeah so bit bitpay is a little bit tricky i really like bitpay but they will they'll do the conversion because coinbase commerce is non-custodial like it's it's separate from coinbase so you just get the crypto you do what you want with it bitpay has the option where they'll also convert your crypto uh to us dollars or sometimes in euros and stuff at the exact rate but like you know um when i was in canada you know um you know a friend of mine she had a flower she yeah she had a flower company and she started to accept it but it was really difficult because but the user over 100 had to do kyc and things like that it's it's because they try to work with the banking system obviously doesn't want that but coin this commerce is non-custodial which is um whereas bitpay is not you have to like a lot of kyc and they'll convert and send your bank account which is helpful but long story short is anyone can use coinbase converse whereas bitpay it can only be used using certain countries and there's limits on what you can do i'm not that's not an incredible um service for the the right people yeah it's it's when people are asking me how they can use cryptocurrencies and just their normal day-to-day ventures it's it's tempting to recommend well i usually recommend indeed bidpay but they have changed indeed and especially with the new mld5 in europe like you're right there's more kycml even on there even on your counterparty so not just you emitting the invoice but now the person who's fulfilling the invoice they also have to kyc whereas in the past they didn't have to and yeah like if i'm buying for 200 i don't want to kyc you know it's like yeah you don't have to you don't have to kyc when you go out to a restaurant in paris i know i know i think it's not full kyc though it's like but they want your co they want your details whereas in the past they didn't take anything and now it's like at least your email like you know they want something and they used to be more lean but now it's more like we know they want to trace a bit more yeah and i get that that's that's pressure on bitpay and i still think bitpay is incredible and what they're trying to do and like just there's so many jobs in crypto that are very well first off like no one talks about the blockchain dabs but like that's obviously beyond the top of this conversation i know i don't think either one of us understands exactly what they're doing you know technically but like like those jobs are really really hard you're going to miss some parties being like in a you know bitcoin or ethereum developer but also like the people that have to a lot of these companies that have to deal with the banking system like bitpay that's some hard work and it's always changing and like the rules change and they're ambiguous i mean the exchanges as well not easy um like plot it like basically yeah all the custodians basically anything that's an on-ramp off-ramp anything as crypto to crypto it's fine it lives on its own bubble like uni swap right all that world is just like we're so far ahead we're like rainbows ahead from all of you guys and then the others that are still trying to onboard the fiat world and make that connection and that are stuck between weird regulations and users that are a bit lost and they want to get into crypto but they want something user-friendly but it's like all these things you have to do to sort of hold people's hands and cater to regulators yeah difficult weird weird in-between place to be yeah for sure and it it's it's definitely working in bitcoin.com and talking to people especially like eric voorhees when he talks about how much like mental space it takes for the compliance and regulation part um yeah it's gonna be a battle i think maybe some people that have you know just like i did when i came in 2017 and people are like oh like it's going to take over everything like this is it this time is different but then you realize wow this would be a long hard fight and there's people that do not want crypto to succeed i still am under that impression and they're going to fight pretty hard oh that's an interesting uh point of view do you still think that we're in the they're gonna wake up and fight us or do you think we've already passed the fight and they're gonna just let us roll oh yeah i think the fight's still going for sure like i think um and there's maybe a lot of indirect warfare where you like say hey we love crypto like i think like you know regulars we love it but then secretly they don't really let you get into your bank account or you know all that type of stuff like i think it's i think it's really yeah yeah it's like that hsbc bank uh for example and the uk is not letting people withdraw so and hsbc who is infamous for all their money laundering of cartels and like those guys are the freaking worst like also like there were these uh hong kong activists uh that fled to the uk recently and shocking their hsbc bank accounts in hong kong were frozen but it has nothing to do with anything it's just like yeah so that bank they i don't know i haven't i haven't you know went down that rabbit hole of investigating like who's behind that bank and who's pulling the strings because there's obviously an agenda here like someone is like making those calls and deciding to close that bank account deciding to block crypto users in the uk and more i wonder who is that yeah like that stuff's going to continue you know it's just part of the fight for a feature of finance it's it's going to be a fight and that's okay just accept it right there's it's not like oh like we've won because people you know i talk to people once you start to get defy and and and just you know cryptocurrency in general like wow these banks are so archaic with their 80s software and the way they run and it's like yeah you know what their biggest weapon is not their technology because they would lose you know that's like a like a little pistol against like uh you know like ar-15 you know i mean it's just there's there's no their weaponry they don't have it but what they do their weapon is like the compliance and regulation they control and their relationship with you know the relationship with governance and so forth and regulators that and that's that's a strong weapon it's a very strong weapon and like i think that's the thing that people underestimate once they see like the visa or like mastercard blah blah blah because like the whole idea was to replace me as a mastercard you know so when they're like oh visa is going to use ustc isn't that maybe it's positive yeah i don't know like that might be our goal but i don't know if it's everyone's goal um and also i find uh i'm making a huge generalization here um and maybe it's you know maybe it's a privileged thing but i think like in asia they're especially more pragmatic not that you don't find them in u.s and europe but they're like hey we're trying to make money and we fought on this as a vehicle to make money which is fine just like pure capitalism but there's not as much ideology and that's why you also find tend to find that people in asia from my anecdotal experience tend to do a little bit better at like already in the markets because they're in it for the money where sometimes um they have less of a tune of what's going on in in the us and europe and whether it's ideology or whatever but like um you know that's i'm not part of the east like in the sense that i haven't been to asia uh you know i'd like to go one day but i realize that's a huge force of money out there and a network out there so yeah those are my my thoughts there what is your so then you're saying you're not part of the east would you could you then share some of your insight about like being like more like in latin america having worked with venezuela a lot in the past like do you think that there's more is ideology than more prevalent or more important in that part of the world versus capitalist asia i i don't want to speak super foreign but yeah but i feel like yeah like with like venezuelan stuff it's it's um it's hard but you know i did learn that like they in my ex experience like they couldn't handle the volatility of something like bitcoin cash and they needed like maybe a stable coin built on bitcoin cash or ethereum could work um and that was just my experience so i could be wrong there um strong opinions weekly held um i think that uh i think so i think the banks and like columbia example they're they're have even more control than they do in in the u.s so it's it's pretty hard to get around them but but maybe there's just ways to do it um and i'm hoping for it but i i do understand that they're very well one thing i can speak with confidence is like these south american governments are so slow to move so slow to move they're very afraid of change it's you know south america is based on tradition and history they're not really thinking as much about progress it's a lot about tradition right and they they really uh revere the past and there's some good things that come out of that but not so much about like progress and change and you know i would always laugh when people come to south america and this is not indictment of the people but just the way it's set up and like oh south america is like the future it's like the next big thing in central america and i like it's like i don't see it you know i i i have friends that have been to asia that that were live in south america like met you know this is the future it's asia and i tend to agree with that with akavi i've never been to asia but i i think so to implement a technology like d5 there it's going to be um it's going to be a challenge but it's i do see like the small stories which i saw with like hosea epch and then some you know some devs in argentina and people that are using dye and stable coins during interest like it's starting to happen um maybe i'm a bit cynical after having gone through everything in just a slow bear market but so i'm like cautiously optimistic that because when you see what you can do for savings and bypassing all these middlemen that's still that's still really important and and i i do hope it gets there but i mean some of the same problems that when i started bitcoin.com existed today and that it's still really complex to use whether it's metamask or a crypto wallet it's still not that easy um getting people to accept crypto still doesn't happen so um yeah there's some some challenges that exist today that are going to take a little bit more time to solve interesting yeah you mentioned uh you know a good product which is like user and also for merchants to accept this is definitely these are are difficult topics and we we still bring them up and we still try to onboard merchants and we still hope for like better better products what would be like right now obviously you're gonna talk about uni whales but like what would be like your current setup right now if you're like you as a user like what's your go to exchange what's your go-to like how do you store your coins like what would be like you know your startup kit like what would you tell people where to go how to do it but what is the goal just to learn not like for yeah for a beginner if you're a beginner right now but also maybe your favorite products that you use you know like what what do you like to see in a product or i i feel like we need to share more because we we we sort of have opinions about all these different products but it's like what do you do you know like what what do you use actually and what do you like to to have as features you know when you've been one of one challenges when you've been crypto for a long time it's hard to have the perspective of a beginner and i would just consider myself an advanced beginner because i've been in this for four years but to um all the things that you take for granted that you know eleanor that they don't know i would say actually uni whales is definitely not for beginners is more for you know intermediate to advanced uh people um i think well one place to start is like how money got free and there's also a good book called infinite machine by camila russo one's on bitcoin ones on ethereum i think reading the history and getting the feel for the culture first is an interesting way to start i um so that's always kind of been my preference so i would read one of those books and just start on the abstract of like why did this whole thing start and then maybe dive into some of the projects like that's that's one and then maybe you know join these these projects telegram and discords and um yeah and get whatever whatever's a little bit for you whether that's ten dollars or a thousand dollars depending on your income level just get a little bit and start playing around with it i think that's um i think that's worth it you know there's there's definitely websites that you can buy a t-shirt you know buy something with crypto go through that checkup process like those things are are um quite uh quite beneficial to do just have the experience basically just get out there and play and just learn the history then get some experience using it yeah you i always recommend people i'm kind of a nerd i always start i start some of my classes actually putting the cypherpunk manifesto into people's face and i'm like you know since 1993 they've been saying this and it's quite old and these are kind of the values that are behind all of this and but i do insist on the whole even if it's a newbie even if it's and i just send them like just one year worth of bch i'm always like okay so now we're going to save your private keys and i insist uh would would that be part for you of like the 101 would that be something that people need to do and be aware of i'd say so i would okay the like the libertarian stuff like that which i find to be very important but i don't know if that really resonates at least in the u.s because it's been the word has been warped and to uh what it's not really meant to mean like and anyway i would i personally would steer clear of like the anarchy stuff and just go into like how it works and just intermediate and no middlemen and try to be a little bit more neutral because i think i don't know that that's just my style but you have like a maybe you have a much more persuasive style and you're able to get that across and so coming from everybody that joins my class turns out that crypto and our kids someday when they leave now i'm just awesome please continue um but yeah like i mean so you work with cindy wang who helped uh when we had the bitcoin news show she would give us updates from china which were just so different i should pull up my telegram with cindy but like your updates were like yeah they're like and this is not a indicative of of cindy's you know this is just what was happening but they're like you know some crypto exchange had people like users couldn't get their funds and they're protesting and they then the wechat got shut down and people are threatening jumping off the building if they don't get their money back and that's just like whoa this is just so different right so i think someone in in the in china again haven't been there i've said it like four times on the podcast you know it might be way different than you explain to someone in holland or or the united states and their background um so i think that's um and then people that may feel marginalized by the system they might really um i think people and kind of the lower income back in the u.s have to pay all these bank fees and western you know they might be a lot more receptive to yeah what about those today that are yeah and those today that not only the fees and everything you know uh you're you're we're seeing negative interest rates in the banking system is that really happening in europe are you really losing money i don't know yeah so july ubs negative interest rate they announced the beginning of the year that's insane in july it's going to start yeah at least when i remember from the pr it was like we're rolling out this summer negative interest rates so if you have thousand dollars in there like you know october you have like no it's more it's only they're they're putting negative interest rates on accounts that are holding at least two hundred and fifty thousand okay so not the smaller ones okay not the smaller one so they're starting with those that can afford it kinda and that you know would wouldn't probably notice or they would but they'll be like ah too much hass i don't know i don't know what they're expecting from these users to like either not budge and be like fine or i'm wondering if all like once this gets more out which i'm guessing will and then people realize wait i can move all that money into crypto and get positive interest rates and significant interest rates and not you know what i mean it's like but it it takes a more with risk right like there's there's definitely some risks there there's some risk there's some risk but one's negative one's positive i mean yeah yeah true true i think there's risk but once you're one you're actually paying banks to speculate with your money and you're you're still paying them not to do that you're you're you're losing money basically with by keeping it with them i don't know yeah well that's one thing i've seen now it's like selling out of crypt excuse me selling out of crypto and the dollars it's like it's just so unappetizing with like 20 of us dollars haven't been printed in the last 14 months you know i could be offering that but a ton of us dollars were printed last year insane pandemic so insane yeah i think that's why that's something that we need to all go back to as well or yeah just learn the fundamentals of of money what is money what you know what is fiat today what is the u.s dollar how it's pegged to a whole bunch of countries i've been teaching classes for lebanon and it's just their economy is linked to the us dollar and it's horrible right now like people can't withdraw their us dollars from their bank accounts completely massive yeah massive devaluation it's venezuela but like worse and like now and it's like i can't i mean i feel like venezuela had hyperinflation around 4 000 so i think we're not there but it's we've reached at least plus 400 400 percent hyperinflation on goods and so in a year so uh it already started before october 2019 and then it's just been going down every time i'm making a class i need to adjust the i need to adjust the slide on the interest rate because it's worse and worse and worse so you need more and more uh lebanese lyra to be able to to to to be able to get some dollars and it's a country that has very poor governance poor government their central bank is extremely corrupted it's just doesn't look good just really really doesn't look good and so massive capital flight uh sorry capital control so they don't want people to you know move their money around and yeah people are just are stuck people are stuck right now and i'm not sure i think people still some people might still hope that the banks will have to pay back and give money back to people but i don't know how that's going to happen they've been trying to the central bank's been trying to attract you know investors to bring capital back to lebanon that's not happening no one wants to put money there because for a long time they had massive return on investment for their investors right so that's how lebanon kind of worked as like the bank of the middle east they kind of did that for a while everybody's yeah no one's spending their money right now in their uh uh syria that had a lot of money parked in lebanon due to international sanctions they have i think more than 40 billion uh blocked right now wow so you know bashar is like uh can i have my money back it's not happening and so it's like it's insane right now what's happening in lebanon and yeah i'm just i'm i'm on a tangent every time i talk about lebanon it just gets so emotional but it's just uh i yeah we're definitely lucky in in in netherlands or in other countries where we can just have access to normal financial mainstream instruments i think really yeah well your experience with lebanon a lot of people in like the us they don't get that what's going on in venezuela or lebanon they're like oh you just use paypal and so i think it's really awesome that you are educating people there in lebanon that's that's super important work and i i can imagine how receptive they are to your to the message and the information you're providing them yeah i love it it's my favorite job i i love being encrypted but i must say i have a massive soft spot for for lebanon for having uh studied there in 2014 and then for knowing people there that are just so smart they're so smart so literate their state deserves so much better that's how i feel i feel like it's such a shame to just sacrifice whole population all their savings like if you had left all your savings in your bank account you lost 90 percent value wow in the last year i mean last year yeah and you start to pay you know everything just i mean whatever ah that went on [Music] i'll continue doing this i'll continue doing classes i'll continue uh teaching people and making sure because you've kind of had these initiatives with venezuela right like you were also yeah what was that about what were you doing at the time with so one is i just helped like retweet and you know along with bitcoin.com with jose and ebch and then i also helped them you get the bitcoin cash house experiment off the ground whereas just like a small education center where people could learn about crypto um and yeah you know i kind of coordinated all that while i was at bitcoin.com but yeah that stuff is so important it's pretty heavy stuff to work on and i think the awareness of what's going on and getting people to care about that i think is like venezuela is really it's weird it benefits really popular in in like aid for venezuela i think when i was at bitcoin.com because it was so new but when a country's been suffering for a long time it's like a little bit harder because things haven't changed like syria has been in it well like venezuela got progressively worse over the last couple years um all i'm trying to say is i think that's some really important stuff but it's a little bit harder to get people to care than i'd like and then you just have to find a way to get around that but i i think um that's maybe the piece that's not really being talked about right now it's all about d5 and finance marching coins and all this stuff and it's something that's really cool like i mean being able to you know get a loan on ave and then maybe withdraw and put a mortgage on a house is really innovative innovative stuff um having said that it would be cool to get a little bit more press around this this type of stuff which is um doesn't seem to get that much press relative to the rest of everything that's going on i think when you open like any press right now about crypto is the price has gone up it's wonderful it's like it's always or it's so these are either the positive press which is oh my god greed yay and then otherwise you have all the horrible news angles like oh someone got hacked bad using too much energy um what nfts are stupid things like that you'll see what do you think about that what do you think about nfcs oh i do have some i have some hash masks um so i think the hash mask uh but i need to well i don't even want to talk about like they're uh calm there's i think 16 384 um but but long story short is i'm not an expert in nfts but we've it's become pretty popular it's it's like simultaneously two things one it's a big fad but two there's so many things you can do with nft which is erc721 token and i think with like music and art and cash flows um because like everything in life is an nft right it's a like your house is different from your neighbor's house so if you look at it that way i think i think this first wave of just like random artists and celebrities pointing out that's going to be a fad but then there's gonna be a second wave more collaborative like art music real estate all these things that can be integrated with nfts i think that's going to be cool um maybe somewhere deal with the first types of tokens on ethereum most of them didn't have any value maybe still they're not quite there yet but eventually there's really cool erc20 tokens but nft is what's your erc 721 i think it's going to go through that same uh transformation there's quite a bit of stuff that can be can be done there and it's even seen like artists that have changed their life because they've been struggling for so long and then they they they launch an nft and all of a sudden they have some money which is always welcome for a starving artist i mean there's some cool cool things going on with that but it's still very early and um you know the same same challenges as crypto a lot of noise but some signals will come through and some new cool use cases are definitely on the way yeah so for those that don't know and i'm not expecting anyone unless you want to know nfts are non-fungible tokens and it's basically it's a different type of token where you can sort of wrap a bit of metadata around a token that's why matt's been saying erc yeah so these words like before crypto i didn't know what fungible meant but fungible means like just one dollar can be changed for another dollar you know two things that are exactly the same it's all these tokens one bch or one bitcoin ethereum is fungible because you could trade it for each other right but these are unique so it just means it's unique you can't trade it so if um if eleanor mints or you know creates five different pieces of artwork that are all nfts you know eleanor's created five nfts because they're all five different pieces of art so you couldn't trade one for the other because they're not identical yeah yeah it would be like a little bit it would be that that token plus metadata which would be like usually a gpec a jpeg file like a picture which are sometimes stored on centralized servers or ipfs anywhere they're not really yeah or i could change the pictures right i'm the centralized artist so i could sell you a piece of art i could sell you like that poster make a picture of that poster post it online sell it you know that could be an nft in itself but what's interesting is the ownership right you're the ownership yeah it's like you can prove that you own it so there's like you know there can't be fakes if you you can prove that you earn a certain one you can see that the history of it so that that i mean that's what blockchain does right so that's that's the cool part about it for sure immutability of the ownership but it doesn't it doesn't automatically convert to the real world so it doesn't mean that i have to send you now this poster it's not tenshable it doesn't mean that you have rights over this piece of art it means that the token yeah it depends on your rules but for sure like i think with all this type of stuff in erc 20 tokens as well like they're still like the real world uh laws and regulations so you still have to comply with them even if you own it on a blockchain like if you make an nft of your house in amsterdam and you sell it to me um if i can't get the house do you get i'm not sure you get the house i don't think i get the house no yeah exactly so what i'm gonna say i have this nft you know this because your house is a non-fungible token so i mean there's yeah there's definitely some complexities there especially when you include the physical world if it's a digital image and stored on ipfs there might be ways to make it a little bit um easier and harder to but yeah it's still very early i think that's that's the central theme there but so you have some hash masks i think that's interesting because did you did you buy them like recently or were you like i bought them right after they launched and they were only around like uh point four eight something something like that and okay uh so why did you buy white hash mass and oddly i thought it was popular and other people were gonna like it was basically they said it was a collective of artists around the world but i think it was all computer generated but there's the 16 000 mask and they have different features and the more rare ones are worth more money they have like some features it's i can see that it's from uh a company or and from switzerland yeah a collective out of zug uh they have um they like did this thing where now you can um mint uh portraits of it and then the hash mask owner gets the proceeds they have a name change token which is another cool thing where if you have enough name change okay you can name or rename a mask and so that was a thing so um there's a couple wrinkles to it and then there's gonna be no more name change tokens after 10 years so all the names will after a certain amount of time will be set in stone it's still very new and experimental but i found it kind of interesting did you name yours can i actually search it right now oh man i i can't i'll tell you all i'm not gonna i'll tell you what i'm not gonna tell you just because if you know if i told you the name of the hash mask you could find my ethereum address this is one of the issues with nfts if you should if anyone has an nfgn openc they may not know this you can look up their address and see their wallet in their collection well but you've is it like one ethereum address per nft or is it do you have all your nfts yeah multiple on you have multiple i have it all on under one address but the issue is that if you name it there's only one name so like let's say you have matt there could be matt that's it there's a company name that once but you could have m a space tt um but but yeah like i mean i would show some some photos of the hash mask i think it's a cool project will it hold long-term value who knows you know we will display it here no yeah post prod but like that's another thing with uni whales like a lot of doxing when people change their twitter profile because they want to flex with these expensive nfts they've purchased like the the punks like you can you can uh reverse look up you know their addresses and stuff some people have docs their address not not their personal address just their ethereum address because of this so it's a whole nother whole other thing yeah it's interesting because i i was recently teaching whatever the crypto 101 and someone so so i'm very inspired by our one and only roger vera obviously but i like to end all my classes by sending a little bit of crypto to people and then so everybody's putting their addresses in the zoom whatever i do the airdrop and the next day someone's like wait the address i sent you yesterday it's not the same in my wallet today they were they and it's an hd wallet so i had to explain that i used edge so they were like yeah but so what's happening here and i was like well it's actually so you have one set of keys but then you have multiple addresses and every time you will receive funds actually it will the wallet automatically will generate a new address for you so that no one from the class could like trace for example if you were like an attendee in the class you could theoretically fault you know track all the addresses that people are giving but they would only see the one euro worth of bcs i'm sending that they wouldn't see the rest of the activity of the wallet so i'm surprised that with nfts that yeah but you should just move your your nft i guess but then you could still trace it and you could still yeah you can just you can always like once you if you own it you've named it it can be traced anywhere unless you sell it but but still then i mean there's yeah the nfts are a bit of an issue there but there might be ways around it but but more importantly i would check out the hash mask and i have zero advice for i mean any of this not investment advice i for nfts i think the people that i do see they do say like just collect things you like and think are cool as a barometer doesn't mean it's going to have value but i mean there's really cool things that can be done i think that you'll see a lot of use cases that haven't thought of yet that would be pretty innovative but most of it's going to be you know a lot of fluff and type stuff by every celebrity creating their own nft and i think it's interesting that we're seeing like really big celebrities like really mainstream celebrities that are minting nfts a random person on the i'm thinking of like jeffree star like i don't know if you know him like youtube youtube uh makeup superstar and i was just like wait what and he was like he had nfts and i was like oh my god we've yeah we've reached it this is it this is the mainstream moment when everybody is just doing stuff with crypto um or when i saw uh grimes uh minting nfts as well so yeah that was bad but that was big but then i actually went to the platform i was interested i was like okay i'm going to research this i want to see you couldn't sterically pay for the nfts you had to like pre-load an ethereum wallet or you know pay in fiat and i was like oh yeah so it's like we're still in the beginnings i think you're right it's just like the future use case are not yet there people are testing and it's fun and like matt said just buy stuff that you actually like like if you if you do want to invest in nfts just imagine you buying that piece of art if you would buy that piece of art if it was not an nft like do you really like it do you like the artist does it have meaning for you like don't automatically buy something because it might have value in the future because it just that's a massive not it's obviously gameplay as liquid as these these tokens and um yeah for sure there's a book called the 12 million dollar stuff shark that talks about how absurd the art market is and how people value things there and the hype and market around it kind of an interesting interesting read i think yeah i mean i'm not some stuff some nfts are art some others are just very conceptual like jack dorsey's first tweet uh you know it's there's everything and anything really in the market right now and i think uh we'll see we'll see what uh the future holds for the nft for crypto in general maybe we'll see uh more innovations as well in our blockchains we'll see you know proof of stake coming to ethereum native tokens on bch like there's more things happening on all these as as i like to say it's an ongoing social experiment so we haven't seen it all and these blockchains keep evolving and hopefully the tech moves along by native tokens on bch you mean slp or no awesome no i mean minor validated tokens you need to follow the minor discussions um they're discussing so uh basically we haven't had minor validated tokens on bch we have non minor validated uh tokens on tch called slp so they use the simple literal protocol for those out there so it's tokens on bch but it creates a lot of problems in the in the wallet because the wallet might so it's basically bch plus metadata so we're talking about nfts are before it's a bit different but it's the same it's a bit of bch wrapped with some metadata around it which can create a token they're called slps but the problem is that if the wallet that you're storing these slps in sends the bch it might burn your slp so you might lose your tokens basically if the wallet nut doesn't make sure that the right wrapped bch attached that token stays attached and we and we haven't had non-native tokens even though it's been discussed since uh the tokyo bitcoin cash conference in 2018. i'm not sure right now yet yeah 29 2018 took a bit too cubicle cash conference where uh andrew from bitcoin unlimited was mentioning this uh on a panel that we could have at some point and it could enable tokens and uh models like maker on bch so where we i know i know so bs rook actually proposed this as well like two years ago or like when he proposed the mitra which was uh but that wasn't implemented and it's just it's doing a comeback so the conversation is is is going let's see we also have like right now smart bch but it's a side chain uh so it's it's doing stuff it's new as well uh they also got funded through flip starters or uh crowdfunding platform for those who don't know i'm sorry cool so yeah so there's stuff happening but it's it's still you know i think a lot of people look down on d5 maybe in the vch space they're like no we don't need all this stuff we just need peer-to-peer electronic cash now yeah the conversation is maybe like wait actually wait actually we can maybe maybe there's some elements that can be implemented yeah yeah maybe we don't want the ifp that for show is a big no like we're not going that road but we could still make the protocol where we yeah where we could innovate more things basically let's see let's see you see h is still still growing still going yeah i think i want to ask you right now uh i think i don't know so for those who don't know this is a bit of a special part of the podcast where i ask our guests basically to bring us an object where we can remember them by and it can be anything it can be any object that is important to them that is something that they like uh matt what did you bring to the show and tell today okay so finish off here this is my kindle kenny um you named it yeah yeah uh so i never shared that publicly before but yeah kenny um and anyway i uh yeah i've read hundreds of hundreds hundreds of picks on this thing a lot of books and and so i love reading it's just something i do every night to fall asleep for oh since i don't know last 12 13 years and i don't think i've had this kindle since i think i've had a kindle for the last maybe uh 10 11 years and because i've been on the road a lot or living in south america or canada and not in the us so the books were not as ubiquitous and even though i do like paper books still and so yeah that's been a part of me just you know research like if i got into crypto i mentioned i would read the history i like if you know in food i like reading like the historical like learn the history of industry first but i also like biography um philosophy all you know uh popular psychology obliged biology uh all sorts of random stuff uh salt a world history i'm just thinking of some of the top books i like uh you know the war of arts and motivational stuff anyway i love reading and i think it's great and it's definitely been something that i wish i did when i didn't start i was like 24 25 i wish i would have started when i was like in my teens but i was just so i associated with school and i was just so repulsed by school but uh you know just wasn't for me i should say i was repelled by it but yeah that's my kindle kenny um a paperwhite it's probably the first paperwork edition it's um it's lasted for a long time and uh that's what i got amazing thank you so much is it like some so it's something that you you've had on you right now like all the time you said you followed me to it is that i remember times where i would go to like speaking of bureaucratic stuff i'd have to go to some like bank or someplace to wait or wait in some line i was like oh my gosh i didn't bring my kindle this is a huge mistake and because i always say oh i'm probably not gonna have to wait and then real world hits and i do so i have it always with me i don't think i ever travel without it um what are you what are you reading at the at the moment well marine right now let me pull it up um i'm rereading the 33 strategies of war by robert greene which i like and then i started the worldly uh philosophers um about the great economic thinkers so that's a pretty cool one um so i'm in those two right now and then um i want like a really like easy easy to read just um well it doesn't sound easy but i'm reading blood gun money about the history of uh firearms and the the illegal to illegal firearms trade in in north america to the rest of the world but yeah those are the three things i'm into right now um and um actually ironically i haven't been reading as much as i as i usually do um but yeah yeah but yeah those we go uh those are the those are the things that i'm i'm reading right now amazing oh thank you so much i think that we have a tendency in crypto to be just online so much uh and and we just need outlets and also to feed our brain with not just krypto stuff but also like appreciate art and literature and and just read and learn and and yeah thank you for sharing your your object with us i think it's really it's a it makes it's an object as well i think that um shows that you want to continue learning basically and you know yeah i'd say so not in like a snobby way but just you know i'm curious amateur that loves to read and i'll continue to do that um but yeah i mean eleanor i um i do have to get back on the grind this was such a welcome break in my in my day um i do hope i provided value to your listeners or entering conversation i appreciate your questions i'm so excited to hear what you have going on in lebanon i think that's awesome so i feel like that would have been the answer i would take eleanor's crypto 101 class um like uh so i'm i'm gonna like show your class on your on your podcast and it's probably the sponsor um by eleanor blanc man it's been an honor go back to the grind i'm so happy i had you on board for today and yeah all the best all the best and for everybody else just keep an eye on on uni wells and on matt aaron he's you're awesome you're awesome thank you so much thank you so much and i hope to be back soon and also one last thing i should say you should make 100 episodes at least 50 of this podcast i think too many people start podcasting they do like like i've done 10 episodes and i haven't gotten like a lot of downloads yet like like um like you have a talent for it but do a hundred and you're just like it's just gonna click oh my god no i i don't know i challenge people to do that like the long-term stuff do 100 episodes yeah 100 all right 100 blog posts i hired 100 100 guests yeah let's see you in a hundred episodes i'll invite you back for the 100th one oh my god okay there you go i will definitely come back i mean i think that like i have i really admire people that do something for a long time and i can't pretend to be a master at this but like a buddy of mine he's in the best shape of any of my friends i know he works out once every five days and then he goes running once every six days and he tells people that they're like oh you go five times a week he's like no i go once every five days so today is tuesday that means his next workout will be sunday and he never misses maybe if he's sick or something maybe it'll be like you know a 50 workout but he's done this for the last 10 years and he's incredible shape and he goes running once every six days so if today was tuesday his next day to run is monday but like the consistency or the person that swims two times a week for 20 years like i think that's underrated as opposed to like hey and like i'm gonna it doesn't be sports it could be anything but just doing something consistently over a long amount of time and we we overestimate the frequency and underestimate the longevity and consistency i just think that's super important i don't say that as a as advice but just something i try to think about and try to aspire to in my own definitely i do admire discipline a lot as well it's diff i find it difficult to implement discipline in my own life but just having a challenge like this and not only 100 episodes i need to live up to 231 from the humans of bitcoin so that i know that and uh there's so many interesting people and i look forward to interviewing more crazy people out there that are in this industry and um yeah thank you so much for for coming today and sharing your experience matt see you in a hundred episodes okay i'll see you in her last thing can you get what's that guy's name you know the guy that he's a big bitcoin cash guy uh is it james he left um james kramer no not james kramer who could also be interesting but he's the guy who in wales who who left a ton of bitcoin in a landfill and he's trying to get it out you know what i'm talking about um i don't know i i'm not i'm not sure i find his name but it's like it was a big story like this hundreds of millions of dollars i know the me i know i know like let's go like shovel and and try to find that that what is it a bitcoin miner or like a computer somewhere in atlanta yeah he was mining it early like on gpu what's his name um but yes i'm i'm open to crazy i could never get him to do an interview so maybe you can get him on there we talked and he told me the whole story but james howls housley on twitter okay um but he's still tweeting he hasn't maybe it's a bit painful maybe it's just like some people just some stories are just better untold and they're better for you know the myths you don't really want to come a podcast and explain like how painful it's been because the last five or six years yeah searching a landfill it's a bit like you know here's a new shovel good luck it's it's kind of uh difficult but yeah i'm i'm open to guess i yeah i i this is one way for me to learn obviously and it's a way for me to to show other people what what are the people in crypto right it's just a wonderful window to not go through the price angle or the greed angle but more from the stories and and learning who's behind all these all this industry so one last word one last final word you want to say and share about about this industry to our audience um it's going to be a wild ride yeah that's right all right men see you very soon [Music] you