Bridging TradFi and DeFi through Ethereum and EVM: A Pathway to Innovation

hello perfect hey guys thank you so much for coming it's a pleasure to have you all I think you're going to have an interesting Workshop uh today we have uh several tracks I'm going to cover uh each and every one of them so you can get a sense on how it will evolve throughout the next few hours uh we have a I think a nice mix of uh people from traditional finance and defi so I think kind of adds the right flavor to the conversation uh and it's a pleasure to be here at Devon uh and explain how especially trfi is uh adopting and incorporating the core of the its teex tech evm technology ethereum technology uh so today uh the agenda is this one so we're going to start with a few opening remarks going to cover the landscape set a little bit of the tone uh real quick introduction but I think uh the interesting part will be the the panels so we're going to have a first uh panel with people from uh the industry uh both of the the tech part and the financial industry having a deep conversation on on how like Global projects are leveraging this type of Technologies and blockchain at its core then we're going to have uh some highlights some case studies uh and I'm going to Showcase some companies that are building and doing so kind of help to illustrate how the industry is moving forward uh and finally we have a last uh session uh that I think everybody here already heard about a lot of industry and Enterprise efforts more on the permission of side of Def fense right but there are a lot of opportunities and I think uh having like a global Rao as ethereum and public permissionless blockchains would be very powerful and how this industry is moving uh to to to permissionless Innovation and public ledgers uh all these three panels we're going to uh be covering for around like 30 minutes each uh and we have uh three panelists and one moderator and afterwards uh when you wrap up the third panel you're going to have some Q&A some highlights as well and and then say goodbye but thank you so much uh uh for coming here I think it will'll be quite interesting to get your inputs as well so please do engage uh even though we have a Q&A session if you feel like uh contributing raise your hand at some point I will be happy to welcome any kind of questions and inputs I think it's kind of like a broad discussion that we're having with everyone here today so uh starting with the opening remarks uh maybe a little bit of background on myself uh I was uh formerly the Trad fi side let's put it like that I I was working for the the Central Bank of Brazil for a lot of years I was the project manager the deputy head of the Brazilian Central Bank digital currency initiative which is called Drex and it's using uh evm technology uh to put together and to put on top of the whole banking industry and the whole Capital markets industry on these nextg rails this blockchain based rails uh currently I work for Valor Capital I'm leading Investments on blockchain emerging Technologies more broadly uh it's a venture Capital firm based in the US with a lot of coverage on Emerging Markets having invested in companies such as coinbase since 2014 cirle uh C we invested in thater labus flow and almost like 30 companies that are blockchain related out of 130 portfolio companies uh maybe half of them are fintech so I think it's nice to bring this kind of overlap between blockchain and and fintech uh but just to set the tone I think uh going to be spending a few minutes here uh this is actually what's happening and what has been happening for a long time in in the financial industry I think this movement from uh physical with payments with actual money uh with uh systems uh that are actual physical systems uh like such paper facts uh the traditional financial industry that sometimes still ongoing right and then we have this kind of next chapter uh where the industry is moving to digital and I think the current very expected next step and is the the movement to blockchain based rails right so I think an important thing to highlight here it's this like a new mindset not only like technology it's a new opportunity to leverage permissionless Innovation uh a a tool set and a smart contract layer to really like uh H add efficiency programmability composability everything that you see usually in defy so there's definitely an opportunity to reinvent the the financial industry here and one interesting part also when you you think about the settlement Pro process when you're like uh exchanging assets for payments or payments for payments or assets for assets so the settlement part uh when when you think about traditional Finance you have uh kind of like a two two two steps like different steps that are part so have the the messaging part the information and the actual settlement like going on uh in different dimensions but with uh uh smart contracts you have like everything all together right you have the the atomic settlement you have the information and the exchange of assets uh going in the in the the same moment which kind of unlocks a lot of opportunities as well but uh just also to highlight uh how big is this opportunity I think you can see this from different dimensions as well you can see uh both from the asset Dimension so when you think about organization of re assets it's a massive massive industry currently when you think about public blockchains and and real assets mainly stable coins which are very big by now but if you think about traditional Finance it's a multi trillion dollar industry right so you're going to see probably some Tailwinds that are coming from both infrastructure such as blockchain based cbdc initiatives and also regulatory Tailwinds kind of like pushing the market in this direction and help incorporate blockchain technology in the core of the financial industry but also there's an opportunity to optimize the financial Market infrastructure so the back end the wholesale settlement the instant uh payment settlement uh with uh new technology so think about a little bit of like a type of cloud migration that the banks are kind of like a going through still but uh we're going to have like a next lag when banks are actually incorporating at the core of this stch blockchain technology so uh going a little bit further and double clicking uh as I as I mentioned uh we just like in the very beginning of the journey you think about stable coins uh we have something a little bit over the hundred billion doll you think about real assets we much lower we I think we have a little bit around like 13 billion dollar tokenized but if you look across different tet classes here you see that there are like a much much bigger opportunity and that regulations coming together the banks the financial intitutions are getting uh more used to the technology and more open to adopt so it's just a matter of time that this uh multi- trillion dollar business will actually like move uh to this new tax stack and it's of course when you think about the global figures they are huge but even like I just to illustrate I'm highlighting here Brazil it's also many millions of dollars uh only in a specific country so this will be a massive shift for sure uh and uh the other dimension that we had in the other slide I think is this opportunity for Enterprises uh to to migrate to a blockchain based tax stack the same with Cloud there there will be plenty of opportunities for service service providers for uh technology providers to help the banks navigate in this new ecosystem uh so get ready for uh interesting Journey uh and a huge opportunity for many companies that are working and building in this industry uh and this is actually uh I think kind of like a recent Trend that you all all here have been seeing especially with the big fi right thinking about public blockchain raos as perfect distribution rails uh for tokenized real assets so we have black rock tokenizing money market funds UBS most recently uh other big fi as well in their Journey for a longer period uh and but I think one point that maybe uh is not too discussed is that central banks are actually pushing for this technology so these central banks for instance are incorporating in the core of the financial industry evm compatible infrastructure so if you look across all the banks building uh on top of blockchain rails H usually 90% of them are using evm compatible uh Technologies and if you look across all the cbdcs that are thinking about tokenization not only payments uh I would say that also uh more than 90% of the all the initiatives are evm compatible so this is how powerful uh ethereum evm is and and how much it is contributing to the industry uh and the traditional uh financing industry in this journey uh and uh this is a personal belief here I think um at the end of the day we going to have uh defi Pro protocols money lagos a lot of the Innovation that's coming from the permissionless uh part of the of the of the fence right public blockchains really help helping uh traditional Finance uh creating and innovate because if you if traditional Finance is implementing evm compatible rails evm compatible infrastructures it's very easy uh to Leverage The Open Source Innovation uh to Leverage The the tooling uh to leverage uh the money Legos and defi protocols and to incorporate in the core of of other tax tax so there's definitely like a lot of contribution but def there's definitely clear ambition from specific central banks to interoperate uh these rails of public blockchains and interior more broadly so I think this is a discussion that we're going to have here and go deeper on this and I think it a little bit of uh what this uh uh of this session is all about and finally uh just to wrap up uh this brief overview this is a little bit The Evolution so people usually don't know uh too much about uh how cement systems evolve but if you look back uh central banks and countries in general they have a system for wholesale settlement that's called rtgs realtime grow settlement system it has been implemented since 1980 so a lot of years ago and by now we have almost like 80% of all the countries with live rtgs systems but it's a legacy infrastructure most recently we have some central banks implementing instant payment rails uh we have a px in Brazil UPI in India Cod Mexico Fest in Singapore so many instant payment systems but we are in the middle of the journey we have uh by now a little bit over 30% of the central banks and couns implementing inant payment rails and we are in the beginning of the journey with a few countries uh like Brazil with tracks we have emble in Hong Kong we have a Singapore experimenting a lot with yubin and guardian you have a projects with the RBA the the the bank The Reserve Bank of Australia with South Korea so and in the Middle East as well so there are definitely like some countries focusing on putting together new rails which are evm compatible for broader tokenization of the economy so we're going to see these Trends colliding and public blockchains and open source in permissions Innovation contributing to this other part of the of of the the story and at the end of the day I think in the long run you'll be seeing these networks merging at at some point but it's it takes some uh time for this to be implemented on a global level you have this first few countries that Implement those rails but it's a matter of 10 15 years to have like a global global coverage and we're just like moving to this H Uh current phase of blockchain based settlement systems so I would like to invite the first few panelists here um going to have a first session on uh Trad fight going on fire so we're going to have Daniel Marquez uh moderating H Hart and Sophia and wi you as all participating and I'm going to ask uh uh Daniel to to introduce the panelists and introduce himself as well thank you so much thanks bro hello everyone my name is Dan Marquez I'm the co-founder of Kaki Ventures and Venture executive at AI where we're Revolution in capital markets using blockchain technology um we have an amazing panelist here today uh that have a wide birth of experiences and backgrounds um that we'll talk about the topic today which is trafi going on defi uh we have Sophia Lopez uh the founder and president of Kido uh we have Hart Montgomery the CTO of Linux Foundation decentralized trust and we have weo uh executive director at JP Morgan I think I give a brief intro but I'd love the for the panelists to introduce themselves a little bit more on their backgrounds and kind of what they bring to the conversation today so we'll start off with I guess wikii yeah thanks everyone um we to over here so um I'm from JP Morgan in a unit what we call uh kinexus digital payments I look at the business architecture for um what we are doing over there so essentially the use of blockchain for payments we do about $1 billion uh in daily value of transactions um I'll probably share more during the session itself and yeah thank you Sophia Lopez from one of the founders of cido we're just um celebrating seven years going into our eighth year now um and we're web3 platform we work Prim really focused on Enterprise so providing uh web three Technologies at scale performant highly regulated spaces we run all the open source protocols that Enterprise wants to use they're always adding new technologies and prior to cido I had um launched the IBM blockchain platform with actually with uh Steve was co-founder at cido with me so we brought two years of learnings from like the early days of uh Enterprise blockchain back to 2015 into what Enterprises really need a full stack of plug-and-play components and capabilities and that's what cido offers hi everybody uh I'm Hart I work for the Linux Foundation where I work as the CTR of Linux Foundation decentralized trust which incorporates a lot of hyperledger and the Ed of the postquantum cryptography Alliance um I've been at the LF doing open source for about three years before that I worked at Fujitsu where I did blockchain and cryptography research uh and before that I did a PhD at Stanford and cryptography so I have a background in Academia I guess awesome thank you so much guys I guess my first question is going to be for Wei could you please expand uh and explain uh conect which was just rebranded from Onyx uh and its role in global payments and assets terization yeah sure um so kis is really so maybe just a bit of a background as well I mean JP Morgan we are one of the largest uh US dollar correspondent banks in the world so essentially what we do is we help our clients uh move funds uh when you are doing so you know you could be banking with any of the local banks in your different countries if you're moving US Dollars uh there's a very high chance that ultimately it's flowing through uh JP Morgan So within JP Morgan itself what we were doing is we wanted to look at you know how can we better make use of new technology uh essentially blockchain technology and really the concept of shed Ledger technology so what we did was we built a blockchainbased payment systems uh we have been live since a couple of years back we were probably one of the earliest Banks to be live um like transacting with real value at scale um using blockchain so um we are built on quorum um yeah Sophia probably have a lot to say about that yeah yeah orad as well but yeah so uh we have be on quum so we are evm based um we allow our clients to transact in US Dollars Euros uh across major locations around the world so one of the typical use cases is a Treasurer um so he would have accounts in say bank accounts in Singapore in Hong Kong in London in New York so all of these are in different time zones so if you look at the more traditional way of doing treasury management you have this concept of follow the sun uh essentially everyone works within the daytime and then they hand it off to the next location uh in a way at Sunset you know and the next location continues on but with our platform so essentially will allow for real time uh 24x7 transactions so that completely changed the model of how treasurers think about payments because now you have instant access to liquidity anywhere around the world so that that was quite interesting uh another big thing that we did was uh programmability essentially allowing our clients to deploy certain set of logic within our platform itself um probably what you would usually think of as smart contracts the idea that clients can write certain set of logic or code deploy it within our system and then it just runs as and when it's needed so this ties in very much with the whole 24x7 kind of value proposition because usually we think of it as like um you know so on the system perspective we're able to go 24x7 but from operations perspective um parties are always still have to work so the idea around automation is that parties are now able to build those logic run it within the system and then it can just continuously run and yeah awesome thank you I think so from I guess the Enterprise side let's go maybe a little bit on the cbdc side um sopia you know Koo has worked on blockchain initiatives globally how does ethereum based Solutions support cbdcs like those in Brazil and Australia sure sure well just add that Wei was at Mas and I think you were part of the team that first even came up with the term cbdcs way back when so um yeah as Kido uh provides as Enterprise gate infrastructure we're actually working with over 15 central banks and different initiatives what's really interesting I think uh from an ethereum lens because we offer all the different protocol options that enterprises might want to use is really predominant focus on evm based solutions for example Dre that um Bruno was talking talking about chose besu a number of years ago so now you have the whole Drex ification of Brazil with hundreds of banks involved and they're all looking at evm and besu for what they're doing with asset tokenization you mentioned also uh Daniel Australia they also we've worked with them with a number of projects going back years like syndicated loans was the first project with the Australian banks and central banks um project Adam and then more recently there was a a whole ecosystem pilot 150 companies applied to participate we were the basis of an innovation platform using evbm and middleware such as Firefly from um Linux Foundation that heart heart one of the many code repos that sits uh under his his prview there and it was really great because they put out this call on on this Innovation platform and said hey retail wholesale cbdcs bring your ideas Concepts there were very large multinational players like um MasterCard who participated there were all of the bank participated with really interesting use cases but also some startups actually launched their businesses on the back of this pilot and then the way obviously when you're dealing with the future of money central banks are very thoughtful about how they're doing their poc's and Pilots so it's really great reports coming out of some of these the analysis of the use case a lot of times they might even have workflows like Swift swift Phase 2 has a lot of details for each of the use cases they examine so I think ethereum we're seeing predominantly working with central banks in the Middle East of different parts of Asia like you know Hong Kong hkma has done a number of um pilots and work there other Southeast Asian central banks um even European were involved with the ECB uh digital Euro trials with some exchanges and csds and it's cross border obviously with that you know Europe um trigger mechanism different payments so there's a lot of innovation happening on ethereum and there's um a couple reasons why I think people really like the programmability they want to do atomic settlement on chain um and there have been some tradeoffs when people were you know maybe looking to go into production in a highly regulated space they might have had to do a trade-off where there was like a notary or trusted party but now with an announcement last week in a new open source code-based Paladin you can actually get programmable privacy in a decentralized ethereum network so that's very exciting for composable finance institutional defi awesome thank you I guess for you Hart um could you introduce us a little bit more about the Linux Foundation decentralized trust and could you provide its overview particularly in the context of evm compatible environments absolutely so who's here is familiar with Linux I hope a lot of people who knows the Linux foundation and how the Linux Foundation Works some people okay great so the Linux Foundation is designed to be a neutral home for open-source code the Linux Foundation solves the problem that if you have multiple people or companies or entities that want to come together and develop in the open then they can do that in the Linux Foundation even if they don't fully trust one another so it's it's a sort of concept of decentralized development so I I usually find that blockchain people you know pick this up and and the need for it relatively quickly um so we have over a thousand projects in the Linux Foundation at this point uh we keep getting tons and tons of code you probably know of them like the colonel uh maybe you know kubernetes if you do any kind of cloud development or deployments you know a lot of the world's Telecom stack runs on LF projects um more fun and interesting things like uh the academy software Foundation which does all of the uh movie software editing it goes in Hollywood um so you know we all probably use you know dozens of projects in in things we do every day and and don't even know it um but we do have a number of projects in the blockchain space and particularly in the ethereum space and uh we recently you know put together an umbrella called the Linux Foundation decentralized trust where we host you know all of our projects in decentralized technology space um and this is you know just for sort of administration when at the LF we get a lot of projects we like to group them together um so we have a number number of projects here uh that are ethereum or ethereum based um many of you may be familiar with Basu which obviously sits in the Linux Foundation um others we have tools like uh Firefly Sophia mentioned and cacti which are are very frequently used in in various ethereum applications U maybe some of you have used web 3j to set up an ethereum deployment um so we have lots of interesting ethereum projects in the Linux Foundation um and in our goal is to be that home for open neutral governance awesome thank you and I guess back to you Sophia privacy is a critical concern in evm environments with the Paladin solution recently made open source at um the Linux Foundation decentralized trust how could Kido leverage this to address privacy challenges and enhance confidentiality in the projects thanks I'm going to change the answer a little bit to just how can everyone Leverage purch because it's open source open governance open development I'm going to add on tag on to heart's a description I actually heard the Jim zenin speak who leads the Linux foundation and he said 80% of all the open source code used in production by Enterprises sits under the Linux foundation so you know it's like a clean licensing model and it's going to be an open Community there's no cost to participate so any developer here can just contribute to it you know join the discard pull the code down Etc so in terms of privacy at one thing I wanted to start with is just privacy can mean different things and like um maybe like you know etherum mainnet setting and you know front running or what people are trying to do there in an Enterprise setting it's really over the years it's the needs have been around confidentiality so if I give Wei a million dollars Hart shouldn't be able to see any of these details and then anonymity he shouldn't even know that there was a transaction between us and then history masking where no one can sort of reverse and engineer the data the patterns to know that you know their transaction Providence or any of the details of the entities Etc so then uh there's been various techniques you know Tes is which part of the Quorum codebase and we'd work very closely with the Quorum team it was the first evm production codebase and a lot of Enterprises went into production on that but there were um you know some things that tesra couldn't do like around private token transfers um so this new codebase um takes is like really the next generation of Tess and then add zero knowledge proofs and then also adds um uh sort of a trusted issuer model as well so there's different patterns of deployment depending on if you want to be like fully decentralized or if you know you could be really a network like a swift who's moving into be still being a trusted party but now bridging between digital assets cbdcs and then that business relationship or network might you know H want to have someone in that in that role so it's very very flexible we did announce last week and um weeking Hart were both there we were as cido running project guardian wholesale Network which had a number of banks involved like City Standard Chartered HSBC and asset managers like Schroeder some of the Southeast Asian Banks as well and it's a very exciting project that that used the programmable privacy um because they what they really wanted to do was this the really the first instantiation of institutional defi where you have true composability and composable finance at the Smart contract level across tokenized cash the bonds in repos and then funds in asset and wealth management but then layering you know being able to do that with the Privacy which has eluded people or there's been compromises that weren't acceptable to some of these ecosystem projects we work with like for example you know Drex in Brazil this is an example of one Central Bank we've worked with others as well they say hey if our nodes are down we still want transaction finality and we don't want to be playing the special trusted issuer role so um I encourage everyone who's technical to take a look at Paladin or you know come talk to us afterwards but um there'll be a lot of We did an inperson workshop last week and different workshops coming to you and webinars and things to just kick start um more involvement we've had great input from Partners like like Wei JPM and others over the last six months just in terms of um forming the community and bringing it Forward great thank you and uh I'll send this over to you wikii so so if you have briefly mentioned that you're actually part were part of the monetary authority of Singapore uh I'm curious from your previous experience there how do you see cbdcs evolving and what role would evm Solutions play as part of those core stacks for these digital currencies got so um yeah maybe just quick history so I used to be at the mer authority of Singapore um I was there for about 6 years uh leading cbdc projects so we probably one of the earlier central banks to be working on cbdc uh back in 2016 started working with Kido um and lots of different partners back then um so I was also working on Project DBA at the B Innovation Hub that was on multic cbdc I do feel that um you know ultimately when we talk about blockchain why why is it so interesting for us um because from a public ethereum perspective the value is probably much clearer so why are Enterprises interested in blockchain uh a large part of it is really in terms of how governance actually works so if you think about multic cbdcs for example or generally any multicurrency platform if you have currency issued by individual parties so cbdc is probably the easiest to explain you have Sing dollar issued by Mas you have um you know Australian dollars issued by the Reserve Bank of Australia so how do they actually issue on a common platform now in a more traditional infrastructure you have to have a single stack essentially there's a single platform and you always have this question who owns and operate the platform Now blockchain is really interesting for us because it kinds of provide a technical solution to this governance problem the ability for us to actually run it as a multiparty shed Ledger that to me is the most interesting part of it so um there a lot of other projects that we are continuing to pursue one of it is just generally within the banks now we are also starting to see very much like what you know within the public ethereum where you see value the idea that anyone could be developing applications applications can very similarly interact with each other we are seeing the same within Enterprise um blockchain itself so the idea that you know from a JP moan perspective we provide payment services or we are working with part to provide payment services we could have another bank doing security settlement how could we actually deploy that on a common platform um the various different applications being able to interact with each other that allow us to do really cool things like DVP is really just a start but what if I am trying to buy a security in US dollars but I don't have US dollars I only have Euros could I do essentially what is like a DVP VP uh exchange my Euros for US Dollars and then using that US dollars to buy those Securities all in a single Atomic transaction so I think that is actually getting a lot of interest from an Enterprise perspective because we see that this is going to allow for much more seamless transaction processing and also help to reduce settlement risk as well okay thank you heart privacy is a significant uh concern in the evm environments uh particularly for institutional use through the work that you're doing at the Linux Foundation decentralized trust could you discuss the specific challenges related to maintaining privacy in high throughput environments and ensuring composability while preserving data confidentiality absolutely Enterprises and really everyone when they want a blockchain system they want it all right they want privacy they want sec security they want scalability they want decentralization um many of you have probably heard of the blockchain trialo which says you can't have all of these at once um but we do see a push where people say hey if you can give me this privacy model and you can give me this level of performance I can run this in a decentralized way on on a blockchain and I think that's really exciting so we've seen a lot of advancements uh in in things like ZK proving systems which are really getting us closer and closer if any of you are out there working on that that's fantastic I'm really excited about all the work going on there um but really it comes down to for for businesses and finance um really defining the Privacy model and a lot of businesses and and Enterprises don't really know what they want in terms of privacy they say they want privacy um but you have to get them to Define it uh and once you get them to Define it then you can start applying you know cryptographic techniques um and you know I think zkp techniques are are going to eventually sort of be the dominant U technique people use for privacy in the future great thank you uh Wiki JP Morgan has been involved in projects like project guardian and uh Global layer one how do you see blockchain specifically evm unlocking innovative business models and ing efficiency in financial services you mentioned it a little bit at the end of your answer but maybe you can expand on that yeah so um back back to this idea you know where talk about a much more integrated Financial ecosystem now um if we were to have that we we need to essentially have a blockchain platform that all the banks are able to deploy their applications on now of course in a very Ideal World you would say that's public ethereum why don't Banks just use public ethereum um we do continue to face some of these governance considerations because from A bank's perspective um you know anytime we are trying to use any technology just even as a very simple example if we were to try to use cloud services um from a regulator perspective you'll ask us around questions around like Outsourcing um who are you Outsourcing to who is actually who's going to uh enforce the SLA what is the kind of recovery time that they are uh guaranteeing you so those are some of the questions and then there's also all the other questions relating to technology risk management SLA is so of course from a public ethereum perspective most of you will probably think like oh those questions are probably not so relevant but from an Enterprise blockchain perspective those questions are very relevant to us because we can only use the platform if we are able to answer those questions um so in the absence of being able to answer those questions using public ethereum for example um what we are trying to do is essentially Banks coming together to say hey why don't we operate a private instance of you know something like a ethereum that we can then all use and we can then all deploy our applications on so from our perspective the idea is really a a blockchain that is operated by financial institutions for financial institutions um definitely is not going to be as open as public ethereum but we do think that there's a midle ground where essentially you know with a right set of rule books with a right set of onboarding criteria it can still be open and accessible to all banks who are able to fulfill the minimum criteria so that to us is probably the best that we can push in terms of having an open and accessible blockchain Network so um just to name the project that's actually what the banks are working on uh called Global layer one essentially trying to build and operate a blockchain network that we are able to use awesome thank you and sopia cloud has been contributing to initiatives like the um like project guardian to leverage D5 principles to for for crossboard transactions and securities can you expand on that yeah and I maybe I'll do an advertisement for the next panel because I might we might be transitioning to them I think Bruno had a good slide where he showed there's new Financial networks that are being built and you know global global layer one or this Guardian wholesale Network there are examples of those um and there's you know brand new types of networks there's people like Swift who've done we ran over 38 banks that they connected cross border with asset and cash Network over you know four different use cases um for FX and trade finance and DVP so there's a lot of interesting work happening on the network side or you see payment processors like MasterCard was also on on Bruno slide then you also see you know Banks like JP Morgan and others looking at asset tokenization and and they just want to be able to launch their assets at all these different types of new networks and really get liquidity you get the global uniqueness with ethereum obviously with the the asset types and you can get this composability even across networks so what's interesting in the next panel we'll talk about more is there's these new unified Ledger approaches like the bank of international settlements is is leading and there's one in production called emage and this region of the world that's been very exciting there's private initiatives like paror JP which JP Morgan Wei mentioned who are also trying to do like sort of unified Ledger for for FX and then you have many other variants so I do think composability across these networks because there's different reasons and motivations for different geographies or um different groups to come together but you still need that open interoperable composability across all of those so I think it is a very exciting time uh for ethereum and you know you have all the way from the m0o M1 you know like future of money is changing and the countries who do that well and faster they're going to have a competitive Advantage versus the ones who uh stay behind so I think it's going to be a very dynamic space in the next you know five years awesome um I think just to wrap it up I want to like shift a little bit towards the future so Hart you mentioned that you also guys also are working on uh uh Quantum proof cryptography and future proofing the evm uh with the advancements in Quantum Computing there's a growing focus on developing Quantum resistent cryptographic methods from your perspective how would you see Quantum proof cryptography shaping the future of evm based platforms and what steps can the industry take to ensure in long-term ensure long-term security yeah this is a great question um we don't know when quantum computers are going to be able to do things like Factor RSA 2048 um I don't think there are any Quantum physicists in the room maybe someone will be here and but um you know so so I'm not a physicist so I don't know either um but the immediate thing to do is uh if if you're storing data on a blockchain in an encrypted form you need to think think about taking action soon has anyone heard of this Harvest now decrypt later problem that that goes in some people that's great so the basic idea is it's on the internet and especially on a blockchain if you're sending you know encrypted data across the internet or or storing it on a blockchain someone is recording that and it's it's around forever right um particularly on a blockchain right you know this isn't a super common uh public ethereum application because you know space is expensive but particularly in more Enterprise or Finance settings people are willing to post encrypted uh information on blockchains and in this case well you know if you have data on a blockchain right and someone comes along 10 years later with a quantum computer and that data is encrypted with you know a Quantum insecure crypto system which if you put it on the blockchain today you know you're probably using some step that's Quantum insecure uh then they can decrypt that data right and if you needed that data to be secure for say 10 years or longer you have a problem right so the most immediate thing to do for Quantum Security is to assess if you're posting any encrypted data on chain or sending it across the internet in any kind of you know way that uses public key cryptography uh and if you are think about how long you need that data to be secure when you think a quantum computer might be around and and adjust your uh your crypto systems to something postquantum accordingly from the evm you know the evm itself doesn't use any encrypted data right you know the big thing is is digital signatures um so there's already you know a relatively flexible signature protocol uh in in the evm specs so that's great um but we will need to to transition to postquantum signatures and that will be a little bit frustrating because the uh the key and the signature sizes can be substantially larger something like 8 to 10 times um so we're going to have to think about that with respect to you know available space on a blockchain thank you so much I think that wraps up our panel uh let hand it off to Bruno to introduce the next panel thank you guys so much thanks and we'll be around if you have any [Applause] questions amazing thank you guys was an excellent first panel uh for the next one I'm going to highlight some case studies some some companies that are already building these nection rails that are blockchain based and evm compatible so I'm going to call Susanna uh from uh which the the lead of blockchain strategy for world food food program at the United Nations to moderate the panel uh also abinav from parture which one one of the companies that was mentioned during the the first panel also ital Borat which uh the the lead uh product lead at bis the banking for international settlement in Hong Kong has been uh spearheading many projects there with a lot of banks and central banks and Bruno mon as well from interbank a Brazilian bank that's been working around Solutions blockchain base Solutions on top of trxx the Brazilian cbdc okay so hello everyone um I will start by presenting myself very fast uh and say a few words that I think are relevant uh as Bruno said I work at wfp e uh working as blockchain lead uh I will not talk about that but if you want to see uh more about the work that we do like disbursing money for vulnerable population tracked by blockchain uh there is a panel there's a session on Friday and that I you speak and I hope you'll be there um but I want to talk a bit about the work that I was doing before this work um I joined a wfp 3 years ago and before I was working for 14 years on brazilan Development Bank uh in there we created um in 2017 we were exploring um we were launching a token to track um the disbursements of uh the bank uh in that time um it was not the people in the bank was not comfortable uh on using uh public ethereum we are in 2017 right um and then we decided to create as a Development Bank we also decided to create a a Brazilian Network and what what I want to show you is that at that time Enterprise blockchain was really really strong and there was a a kind of a huge discussion in the community which uh platform should we use uh and there was a huge lob for using no etheral ones uh but at that time we would already think we we are already thinking that it would make sense to us to be in open source to be like in a public permissionless network because we would imagine that uh there these things that we are discussing today are relevant so we would imagine that we want to be compatible uh with uh the things that are we are discussing today and all the development that uh the community is doing and maybe in the future we would maybe even be in eum again so I'm very happy that we made this decision uh the same decision was actually made uh by the Brazilian Central Bank as well uh so both networks are now uh created uh on Bessel um that's also Linux Foundation uh and that's yeah I feel like very connected with this panel because of this uh having said that I stopped talking and I start asking uh so ital uh Bruno uh and Abby uh please like two sentence of to introduce yourself my name is ital Batu I work at the bis uh B is the bank uh for international settlements it's the bank for the central banks people call like that um I came from the web three space um and um uh I joined recently a year and a half ago uh the bis and I'm Enthusiast uh on blockchain and decentralized identity yeah okay uh my name is Bruno monise I'm a blockchain engineer at inter inter is one of the most uh Innovative banks in the Brazil and we work with a a big super app that have like shop e-commerce and non-financial apps it's a lot of stuffs we launched the social media in the the the same app so uh we strongly believe in the vitalic pathway you know the financial and non-financial apps so we we're trying to build the stuffs and we are also working with uh some International initiatives on cbdcs and on the DRS you know someone here heard about DRX and know what is the Drax so you'll definitely need to to know more about this stuff if you're looking to to build onchain stuffs you definitely need to to meet the Brazilian cbdc project uh we are doing a incredible framework for for build onchain stuffs here yeah hi good afternoon I'm abav I lead the Client Solutions and pre-sales for part year I think previous panel actually talked about part year a lot I think what we do is fundamentally we provide a shared Ledger infrastructure for banks to be able to do realtime payments and settlement and it can be for any type of payment it can be for a commercial payment it can be for FX payment or for a security settlement so I think that's what we do uh from a background perspective I'm not technologist like web3 I've been always working with the traditional Banks I've been a kind of a payment enthusiast uh work with those to figure out how we can transform their payment Journey for the banks and that's from where I came from and then I decided to join part year because I see that we can do actually disrupt the payments business amazing thank you so much you start with ital uh so Italo can you explain uh first of all uh what bis Innovation Hub is uh what projects you are working there uh or you are being involved with in the past uh and how it is advancing the infrastructure of payments okay so like I said the bis is the bank for the Central Bank it is an institution that was created by the central banks um after the world war and um it is um maintained by more than 63 um uh central banks around the world um and a few years ago five years ago to be more exact um uh they decided to launch this um um initiative The Innovation Hub um so they launched um six and six uh um uh centers around the world um uh I'm working in the one in Hong Kong um and U basically what it does is to experiment um um new technologies um and deliver that as a public good for the the central banks all the projects are we try to keep them uh in the experimental uh phase so they are usually pcc's and prototypes um and but you see if you read the reports and it's more than 40 Projects so far um I mean between all the the centers um you see a lot of uh Concepts from the the the defi space web 3 um blockchain um DT Technologies right um you see a lot of that but always from the perspective um adding the the regulations um uh Stronger governance in everything so um it's interesting to to take a look um and a lot of them focusing on cbdcs um and that's what I do also in the Hong Kong Center so there are projects like Dynamo Ambridge um um uh Genesis um safe uh aperta all of them using uh new technologies for the central banks thanks okay um so ABI uh please uh can you uh provide an overview about uh the company P Mission and how it emerged from project ubin uh it's good idea to explain the project as well of course uh and it would be nice if you could comment how it relates with uh the B yeah uh so so I I think Italo mentioned about the fact is that from a central bank perspective they do lot of projects and I think for right reason for industry to move and that's where kind of part year was formed part year Genesis is Project Oben uh this is a central bank of Singapore initiative it started way back in 2016 uh where they want to kind of see assess the blockchain technology on how it can solve the inefficiencies with the crossb payment space and they did variety of use cases around that whether it's for FX payment Securities and everything else and this whole project Journey went for around 5 years and when it was done with over 20 plus financial institution uh everybody liked the idea but somebody has to commercialize it being a central bank they can't commercialize it and that's where theask which is a sovereign wealth fund of Singapore JP Morgan and DBS decided to commercialize it and in 2021 October is that's where the partyer was formed or born right uh now we are we are business live I think it is no more in the POC or experimentation stage uh we have Pro we went live last year November and till date we have processed more than 1 billion worth value of transaction it is still a small scale but I think being a blockchain infrastructure it is still a good to start with I think so and we we are processing uh real um transactions right and I think fundamentally from our perspective what we want to provide is a better infrastructure to the banks right typically if you see right now the whole money movement happens is every Bank have their own Silo Ledger and the money moves very sequentially across different blockchain across different ledgers and that is where the the the issue lies in terms of cost and speed that is what we are trying to solve with bringing a shared Ledger infrastructure second key paino what we are trying to solve is right now when the money movement happens it it is it is happening in a very discret first the information moves and then the value moves how we can have a unified messaging and settlement infrastructure which will helps to avoid all the reconciliation which needs to be done across different financial institutions um and and finally is that the current Banks infrastructure being so Legacy this is only so much you can do with that you can't innovate much and I think Wiki talked about some new instruments whether it is FX swaps in FX swaps repos I think those instruments you need to build you need to kind of use a better infrastructure and this is where kind of parer comes in and brings all those Technologies U element to it uh I think three four things I want to just call it out broadly is what is something which I see my clients specifically are very interested is about four things one is digital um second is what they call about programmable uh third they talk about multi asset and fourth they talk about shared leisured and I'll just spend a minute about each of them what does it mean so when we say digital right I think we talked about multiple digital assets are coming in right now right whether it's tokenized bonds tokenized money market funds everything is there but there is a need for a digital cash you know you need digital cash to be able to settle instantly and automic those those digital assets and this is where kind of partyer kind of brings in the whole angle of tokenizing cash on chain using the commercial bank money you know and and if you see right now most of the wholesale institution the wholesale banking works on Commercial Bank money so that's what is a digital is second programmability I think Vicki talked about that is something which is very very exciting because we see new use cases coming around that specifically for corporates on how they can manage their cash concentration structures which is move which is basically moving more on a realtime base versus endof day movement uh that second third is multi-asset I think this is where the global liquidity pool comes into play because now with this the the market players have an option to choose which asset they want to use to settle their P payment obligation and not dependent on the financial Market infrastructure operating hours or the settlement Cycles so this is where it becomes a single pool of liquidity and finally the shared leiser I think we want to be on a shared layered infrastructure which helps to kind of settle instantly thank you okay um so coming now to Bruno uh in talking about collaboration a um I like you you talk about uh the DRS uh so I wanted to uh that you explain uh that interbank um you are involved with the Brazilian Central Bank that uh directs but also with the Hong Kong monetary Authority right um in in the project called Ensemble right so yeah please explain the project uh in also um explain how do you think these collaborations shape the future of cbdc uh especially regarding crossboard interoperability and real time settlements okay uh first I'm going to explain a little bit about the the Drax the Brazilian cbdc and then uh how how the this system connect to the assemble and the all those things first the Brazilian cvdc is the ethereum private Network so we have like 16 participants and every institution need to run a node so it's a decentralized uh one it's not a I know when when I say decentralized Network in ethereum cbdc everyone I got the attention of the everyone here uh but okay uh so we have the smart settlement layer and looks like ethereum uh and then we need to build the protocols and the core assets the wholesale uh currency the retail currency and all those stuffs and we are building in smart contracts and for now we are doing we are dealing with the private solution because uh ethereum is so transparent and we need private for the users to you know uh the the bank system uh need to protect the users against uh you know if I have your bank account I don't know uh all transactions that you have done so H we need to to do those things on chain and for now Drex is dealing with those uh those challenges and the assemble project it's uh Innovative initiative to to test uh infrastructure for the financial Market and I imagine that we have we are going to have different cbdcs and for now we have the the opportunity to reshape the the the paths to the business workflows and for the the technology because for for now we have a lot of Standards but uh in a in the national uh in the National infrastructure we already have a lot of different systems and a lot of uh Payment Systems it's it's confused and when you go like to internet ational environment it's more complex than that okay we have standards but we don't have like digital native standards and now we having the the opportunity to to shape those things and with uh with the hkma and the assemble project we are we are going to to test the trade Finance business cycle you know the trade Finance is like when you you are buying or selling a commodity and the seller H when I sell some commodity I I want the money right now you know the I already made a ship so you're going to receive by 3 to nine months and but you you're are buying you only one to to pay when the you know the the commodity uh got delivered to to your your country so the trade Finance is like a is when a a bank is going to to pay the the seller to receive the to to send the the commodity and then he he's just financing the the whole system and providing liquidity so we have a chance to increase the liquidity and also to use eot and a lot of connections to make the system work better you know because uh you you don't need to pay all the the the commodity when you're when you're in the first day we can just track the ship and when the ship advance I can pay and you know do those things all on chain and using this tour machine to run all the cycle and assemble is more about it it's a proof of concept uh project so we're not doing with a we we are trying to create something that is going to beat the the production but dealing with uh with more academic research yes thank you uh so coming back to you Italo um can you explain a bit more like what are the insights that have emerged from the projects to facilitate crossborder payments um using multic cbdc platforms and how it is reshaping crossborder uh payments yeah um usually in crossborder the way things uh money moves right you need institutions that have um um bank accounts with each other around the world so if you want to transact uh between countries um uh there is always um a correspondent bank we call uh which has this accounts in both countries of course they do a lot of services also like checking uh the reason for that transaction and all the documents that are surrounding that like invoices and uh what is the the type of transaction to avoid uh money laundering and and uh terrorist actions right uh so sometimes we forget that um um and and usually if you live in a country um um where the the the cury has liquidity with other pairs that you want to transact it's easy because um uh it's more instant you have more options of correspondent banks that will deal with these transactions um uh but if you are in a country a small country and you want to do the same it will be a nightmare you you you spend a lot of time uh you can have platforms like partial that help that but I mean I I imagine you have a lot of uh currencies but there will be countries where you you are not there right and with the cbdc in the cross border um what happens is uh we don't know yet how it will behave right but if you have a tokenized version of the the cbdc and then comes a difference from the the the money from the banks I don't want to spend much time but the the the the cbdc is considered a legal tender like like uh cash like Bank notes uh different from the money that is in in your balance in your account account in the bank that is uh we call M1 um and uh this is something good that the banks do because you can have more mu1 in the market and it brings liquidity but at the same time if you want to achieve the the settlement the the settlement finality we call in a transaction you need to wait for the end of the day in one country when the rtgs of that uh country that jurisdictions um updates the balance of each one of these commercial Banks and and this is something that uh even if you see the the the money transacting um in a Swift uh uh transaction for example um uh they wait for this time to to guarantee the settlement right and if you go to higher values you need to to be careful with that and then you you need more Trust on the system that you are using um and with the cbdcs what will happen is um it doesn't matter if it's in a single Ledger uh or if it it it will be multiple ledgers using mechanisms to like um for example htlc to lock some some amount here and and uh Implement um um an atomic settlement in all the the networks um what really matter is that you will have atomicity and uh probably it will be um not instantaneous but uh I mean in a in seconds compared to what happens today we have a few servic that do that um um if you go to wise and partial you can access services that will be instant uh but you are relying and trusting in their bank accounts with the banks that they are using so it doesn't mean that it's um um it's a bit different from the cbdc um conceptually uh and it affects at the end uh all the the ecosystem yeah thank you so I want to go to evm now um a bit more technical I want to uh part your uh um I understand how Paro is utilizing evm based infrastructure to unlock innovation in multicurrency Cross payments particularly in areas like liquidity management and real time settlements yeah uh thank you I think before I just want to kind of finish his your thoughts what you said about I think clearly cbdc come as the most safest settlement asset and I think this is where I don't think so this more of a technology problem it is more about how Central Bank sees it in terms of their access policies you know we still have a challenge of anybody in offshore institution be able to hold a domestic cbdc of other so I think I think we need to solve that as well but clearly what I see is the commercial bank money and central bank money they have to be there and that's where the entire monetary framework is working on and there are specific use cases where the need for a central bank money as well so so so I think so that's why you going call it out uh but I think in terms of some of the uh use cases uh I want to talk about but before I take a step back on we are dealing with with banks you know and in the last panel there was a discussion around when banks are so particular about the kycs and regulations and compliance so so the way what we have done is we first of all Focus some time to build a base infrastructure that helps to kind of tick off these boxes you know uh we use uh Korum I think um in the last panel Vicki also talked about Corum I think that helps to kind of been designed to support a more of a private permission Network so which works for us and it also gives an ability for us to run partition networks for each of the big Banks who provide liquidity to their known participants so that kind of takes a box from from a governance standpoint um second key thing was privacy I think we spoke a lot about the Privacy so I'll not go deep dive into that we discuss about that uh the third key thing is settlement finality you know uh from A bank's perspective it was very key to see how do we get a determin istic finality and not a probability finality right so that is where uh that is where we are using uh the the protocol uh consensus protocol which is ibft that helps to give us a deterministic finality um on our side and finally is access and governance you know and that is where um using ethereum evm technology helps to kind of do that with Korum um that has been kind of designed to support a permission mode capability so I think this is where we kind of send up a good amount of time at least a year or so to build the platform as well as the rule book and then we start building the products around that so the first one was the uh crossborder payment um I think the way we have done is we use the smart contracts to automate the entire orchestration of the crossb payment workflow uh and that what we have done with embedded prevalidation and pre-screening you know and what does it mean from A bank's perspective it it gives them a certainty because it go through the entire prevalidation and pre-screening first before the settlement happens which becomes very immutable in state so so this is what we have done the entire orchestration around that and we also kind of done a build a capability called multi- settlement Bank coner which helps to kind of change series of payments which are very earlier sequential basically we're going to chain it and make it very SLE atomically nature so so this is kind of a use case we have done from a crossborder payment use case um second was on the FX payments versus payment I think this is where uh the banks were very keen to work with us this is uh if you see right now there is no instruments which kind of support a PVP Arrangement yes CLS which is there but they are not actually true PVP um they have their own still their own settlement Cycles but this is where it gets more excited uh for emerging market currencies where you can settle on a PVP basis um and that helps to kind of unlock your collateral to be do deploy in a better way so I think this is some of the ones which we have done and I can go go on and on but yeah yeah thank you amazing um so coming to tokenization uh to you Bruno um so tokenization has been called the revolution for banks uh and you love DX uh that's amazing project so with DX uh focus on tokenized assets uh like public bonds and real estate how does interbank plans to integrate tokenized assets into its services and and what benefits could this brings for retail retail customers and institutional investors yes great um because the we have like two two problems with the democratization of the finance and the first one I think is the tooling uh you you don't the users don't have the tool to know uh manage their their funds or have access to different products and the tokenization uh can um can you know that by tokenization we can create new products and make the ones that already exist even cheaper to to the the client and having a settlement layer a smart settlement layer where we can create of official deposits and official digital products like uh credit like uh the the ID of your car or maybe the the property rights of your own house and those things on on a chain that the central bank and the whole system integrate with you you're going to create a lot of products but like like defi imagine we can bring defi to reward assets using uh the uh the official cbdc but the second phase is like okay now we have the tools we can bring a lot of things from defi but the tool is just so weird to use and in Defi and the public blockchains we are having this issue uh the experience is so fragmented and it's hard to use uh crypto product products it's getting easier yes uh you know it's getting even better we have a lot of products that integrate with uh different chains and different products and in the the financial landscape we also have th those problems we have a lot of products but the tooling is difficult and this is where inter comes and we we have a a important super app and we saw the the powerful the power of integrate non-financial apps to financial apps and how to to Really create value to the the clients because for for now you can use your bank account to access investment not only in a free way but in a easy way because you have a intellig artificial intelligence agent that can understand your expenses and understand what what you can do and what you can't do and how can I achieve my goals uh if I want to buy a new new house how can I do those things and this is not a it it's something that digital tokenization can uh improve but the user experience is something that we can do with blockchain and without blockchain but with blockchain is better amazing um so yeah continuing on tokenization uh to you it now we want to know about a bit more about B s how B is collaborating with the Hong Kong monetary Authority uh on the initiatives like project and Sample um and um and how it will enable interbank settlement on of toiz assets okay so um the Hong Kong Center is independent from hkma we are in the same building in Hong Kong a beautiful building um so we we cross um uh with with the the team from the hkma all all the time um so there is this this proximity um all the the projects that we have there um of course they they are aligned they know what we are executing we discuss with them um but in the project assemble the participation of the bis is very minimal we are only part of the um uh architecture community that they build um just adding it's similar to draxx they have multiple projects as well um it's not only the the the the international trade um and um um yeah they explore the tokenization of bonds and um also in the crossborder scenario um with green bones specifically they try that um but yeah many other uh types of of um uh settlements with uh not only payments but uh with reward assets uh in the middle yeah amazing I mean I still have lots of questions but I don't have time so we need to finish now and come back to you br thank you thank [Applause] you hello perfect thank you everyone for the a great panel as well shifting years here I think we talked a lot about cbdcs Fin institutions permission rails and how this more regulated environment is evolving right but uh for last last panel going to invite some protocols some uh solutions that are building on top of public blockchains so we're going to uh double click on this trans uh transition kind of understand uh if there's a path uh from permission to permissionless so I'm going to invite uh the the panels the panelists here that will cover this topic so uh Kenan will be the moderator uh please feel free uh also Thiago from tansi will be joining us uh during the discussions luuka kiv from yeah perfect from open zaping also be here and uh Shima from uh plume Network so please feel free and and if you guys can uh start the panel with a round of introductions and and then move to the juicy part thank you so much guys have fun thank you so much Bruno it's always uh about saving the best for the last I know energy levels might be a bit low so it's our job to deliver not just content but a bit of spice in it uh first and foremost we'll start we'll get the standard stuff out of the way of introductions uh I'll go first and then I'll ask the panelists to give a one minute introduction of themselves um and also ask them a very interesting question so be besides introducing yourself tell us what is the first cryptocurrency token that you bought for yourself okay so you can think about that recall the memory uh I'll go first um so my name is chenan I lead seon Capital we are one of the few Asian financial institutions that have set up a dedicated digital asset investing arm so we can invest not just in equity stuff but we can actually directly invest in digital assets invest more than 50 early stage companies globally and we also have a fun of funds mandate uh the reason why I'm moderating this panel other than having multiple friendly faces here um It's really because this divide between permissionless and permission is something that's really important right as we think about how do we scale how do we get institutions on board so I'm super excited um to get folks to come on board um and maybe the the the CL clarification for that it's what's the first token that you bought for I mean not not for gas right I think that would be interesting for me it was uh actually XC Infinity uh this was in early 2020s so game five was actually what brought me uh into into web tree over to you go hi guys uh Jim thank you so my name isago I'm one of the co-founders of tansy network um and I'm currently heading tansy Foundation uh so tansi is a decentralized uh protocol for fast tracking the launching of fully decentralized uh networks uh this is very generic I know but actually what we do uh our product is pretty much like a fully decentralized layer one uh you can think of teni uh as um a Ras provider but the the fundamental very fundamental difference between what we do and Ras traditional Ras provide is uh we offer uh fully uh a fully decentralized Miss L way right so fens is a protocol uh that leverages restake assets to ensure the security for this decentralized network so oh by the way the token right so funny enough the first token I ever bought was not Bitcoin uh and was funny also to hear from you that was not B uh I bought Solana so I used to do uh I used to work in a hedge fund before I did that 10 years in my life um and uh I started to to my career in crypto actually working with some research in this hedge fund right and uh that was pretty much in the defi summer and um I I needed to make the the defi course right uh and back then the the gas fees are were pretty pretty um expensive so and Solana was starting to to get some traction uh and I saw another ecosystem which was very very interesting and a lot of different applications was were emerging there and was very cheap so my course would be way cheaper there so of course of course nowadays we have a bunch of solutions that try to to mitigate the the r the the cost fluctuations right that's actually one of the core features that t enable as well in our decentralized networks uh but yeah that was the the very first one and then I bought some tokens in the in the Solana ecosystem very cool you should be very happy in the pasture FS all right about to you yeah thanks uh so yeah my name is Luca IID our EX system development efforts at open Zeppelin we buil developer libraries and tooling maybe some of you have already imported open Zeppelin contracts I think to date I was just checking we've passed 7.5 trillion in total value transferred uh from people that use open zein contracts which is a statement of of course the scale of ethereum and what has happened but obviously the trust that people put into our libraries uh we've built a lot of devel developer tooling uh and we also do security audits uh in the space we recently audited uniswap V4 which has some interesting properties for for trafi um and yeah I think I mean yeah it was definitely epher my first token but that's not memorable I think the first one that I really remember was Dogecoin so yeah that's awesome um hi everyone this is Shuki uh I'm I'm the chief strategy officer at plim Network so uh prior to joining the team here I was the CMO and the founding team member of polyhedra uh so Pedra is basically my first crypto project and I bought um Bitcoin as my first crypto currency and also the second one is salana because we were talking to salana Foundation for the zy bridge integration and I try to figure out what happened why it was like so hard to integrate but yeah it was the second currency uh so about plume we are the r Focus uh blockchain and we combine R assets on chain with the D5 strategies and it's easier for uh the retail users and the global investor to access to more uh I say you know investment pro products uh from try world yeah got it so none of us bought Eve so I think that's the end of the panel no I'm kidding all right so so so let's let's let's get to the the meat of this right and I think before we get into the Technologies and products which I'm which I'm sure you guys have much to share let's start off with something a bit more meta a bit more philosophical we have permission lists chains tvls that have grown to a $3 trillion market cap and then we have the rise of these permission chains that are happening we just heard from the likes of Drax from layer one network and all directionally where do you think we're hided are we HED towards the you know one taking over the other are we heading towards both coexisting side by side relatively same size kind of where will we be so that's a good question uh I think we I mean in maybe I'm biased to to answer that uh considering that we are doing a lot of work in the app chain space at teni so uh I think we are leading to to this uh multi-chain world that we always uh kind of uh uh dream and spoke of but in a very in a way more integrated way right so today uh we are very sophisticated in aggregation layers there are uh pumping the bridging and in general massaging protocols I think that's uh strong stronger than ever um and also I think that's very important to mention the that we probably going to see a way more institutionalized uh crypto Market going forward right which uh might change U fundamentally many many things um but uh probably is going to be giving more uh making the market a little bit more rational right uh I think we finally going to have models investment models uh and me being ex ex straty guy I I pretty like it but uh yeah these are two of the the main the main Visions I have from the the next short term yeah so uh for plume side we've been seeing a lot of uh uh interesting institutional moves because we got a lot of we're actually talking to a lot of people in the United States in Singapore in Hong Kong and we noticed that a lot of uh I'll say institutional Partners think of us as the distribution channels and and also you know some for some permission blockchain like with the fully kyc one they're using us as one of the distribution Channel using our tool called Sky link it's basically passing the yields back to the blockchain users uh with the uh with with the more uh interrup way using the bridge using the interrup ability uh relayer Network um so I've been seeing a lot of uh Trends here and I think for for us we are uh quite prepared for the trends here and we have different tools like including like Skylink we also have the data Highway uh actually can on board different autoi assets uh with the uh Oracle uh from offing to onch um so yeah yeah I think from what what we see is uh yeah definitely permissionless environments are are getting more traction um I think we see defi catering to trfi I think Unis is a great example of that we're now building a hooks Library so soon you'll be able to use open Zeppelin hooks uh for for V4 to have let's say a kyc check before someone does a trade um and I think we also see you know I think kedo has Paladin we see chain link with their privacy manager that they just recently launched which in is part of their Swift integration so I think we're we're seeing you know um projects cater to stratify B on these permission Network so obviously yeah maybe governments will need to have uh more more control and they won't go there um bit I think we're definitely very bullish on permiss permissionless networks I think we're seeing more uh also people like modifying the rollup Stacks I think unit chain is an example of that um so you know eventually you could imagine trafi going there I think for now they're very focused on like more simple use cases that's what we're seeing at least uh you know launching stable coins RW so it's it's not you know defi is still like innovating and at the Forefront but you know we're more and more catering towards uh trfi and I guess yeah eventually I think bringing more people that are in permission networks over to permission list yeah very cool so it sounds like both exist side by side and there's already twos that being built to connect uh connect them both so maybe let's unpack that one layer deeper right it's like an onion we try to get deeper and deeper each time let's really focus on privacy which is sort of what what the core topic that was spil out I always find that privacy has a bit of this um irony or contradiction on one hand of course you want your transactions to be private right especially when it comes towards real world applications you don't want the whole world to know how much you have what you're doing and so there's already a bunch of privacy Solutions but on the other hand you know when it's talk about getting to the real world the government doesn't really want it to be private right it wants it to be private until let's say something bad happens then it sort of wants you to make it un private so that they can see who it is so I would love to hear kind of from a product from a technology standpoint because each of you are solving this in very different ways very different value propositions how do you think about this privacy issue especially in sort of a real world context where you want to be private on one hand but then someone might knock on your door and say oops you know can you not make it private let's make it public to me so uh I can start first uh so from you know uh for such a long time I've been talking to lot of the banks uh and a lot of Institutions about the ZK Solutions uh when I work at you know polyhedra and I think you know for plume it's going to be the same but it's going to be more flexible so how we fixing this like uh privacy preserving issue that we're facing for most of the you know institutional Partners or you know required by Mas hkma or other Banks uh in the in the world is actually using the zero knowledge proof uh technology I think it's uh it's actually the future because it can be uh it can be selectively privacy preserving so it can uh encrypt the message that you don't want to get revealed to the public but you can also selectively you know open the key for the key um I'll say manager of the message for example like M ask if they want to check on the message every time on the transactions we can pass them the uh encryption key to them so they have the key they can open the message they can check out what's happening there but also for the banks itself they can also check on the you know uh transactions uh to most of the res so sorry let me just interrupt you right there who gets to decide who gets the key is it plume or is it the project I will say the project cuz you know it's a we're permissionless uh chain and we provide the tools for everyone so we don't interfere you know their development but they get to choose like I want uh like they get they get to choose the owners of the keys when they they're doing this like privacy preserving selection uh and also on the other other side for plume because we're permissionless right but we definitely don't want like dirty money to come in and we don't want but at the on the other hand we don't want people to do like kyc all the time and you know like for the Privacy issue uh a part of that we actually build this like uh money laundry firewall uh it's a chain level firewall so for everyone for every every single cryptocurrency come into plume we make sure that it match with the AML standard uh globally and also we uh have the we have a pair with the Privacy preserving key uh that can be selectively disclosed to the key Partners in the in our blockchain ecosystem yeah no I totally agree with the ZK part I think that's definitely uh part of the like most the most um ad Advan and the thing that comes close to what uh the institutions want to see and I'm a big fan by the way of what you guys are building in that space um we are tensy we can cover a large number of use cases right and um most of them are more um um D gen use cases def use cases but of course we have also the uh the institutions as well uh I'm also from Brazil and many many panelists and speakers here today are from Brazil brail and we are seeing a lot as you guys already know in the institutional space in Brazil and that's a very very recurring Demand right so uh when it comes to tany what we are looking for is pretty much like incorporating The Cutting Edge uh ZK solutions to to pretty much solve exactly what you're explaining right now um and yeah could I agree more yeah I I think what at least we're seeing is that I mean there's a lot of people that um yeah obviously there's the cipher Punk values of privacy and um you know there's a fine line with that with governments wanting to know what's going on and you know people have to maybe pay their taxes or or whatever um sorry maybe yeah maybe uh but but yeah I think there's there's a tension there right between privacy compliance um and yeah I mean I I I I think that uh there's there's it's going to depend on like where where people are uh you know based uh you know if if the protocols uh entity is in the US right they're going to have uh pressure and a tendency towards one side if they're outside uh that might change so yeah I think we're we're seeing a bit of everything um there's still people trying to push for full privacy you know full full Cipher Punk values and I I think you know that might stand in some places and uh yeah yeah I I I think we're we're we're trying to at least add to the library uh right now like the you know simple things simple extensions to the rc20 that will make it easier for institutions to to deploy and be a little bit more make make it a little bit more compliant and easier to to stay compliant but yeah I think there's still like attention there and the full privacy rollups like Aztec are still not going to you know still not launching anytime soon so I think yeah we'll see what happens when when they they go live and you can actually have like you know full full privacy but yeah um yeah yeah I think it's fascinating to see how this uh evolves especially as as we start to get to skill okay so we checked off the Privacy box let's talk about the interoperability segment and and once again this is any another one of these paradoxes or oxymorons right you have chains that are incentivizing encouraging folks to build on my chain right I give you grants I give you support all of that and at the same so so the idea of doing that is to get people to build on your chain but on the same at the same time there are so many other chains out there that you need to sort of be interoperable with and we all know right startups developers that's just finite resources finite time so really curious to hear how you guys as Leaders of your respective infrastructure companies are thinking about this right how do you it's it's like on one hand you want people to come in to build in your your your backyard but at the same time you want to make sure that they keep looking out at other people's backyards and maintain sort of relevance which the grass might always look green on the other side so yeah I'm curious about how yall think about this whole idea of you know really creating captive apps while figuring out interoperability yeah I can kick it off so uh interoperability is definitely one of the key uh aspects for tany right so and just a step back uh talk a little bit more about our solution Tex stack in general so we tackle interoperability uh several ways and also like we are only viable because of interoperability right so so for start um teni as I said the purpose of of of our uh network is Notch other networks right um and we do that uh by with a partn partnership recently announced with symbiotic uh and uh and when I say networks maybe you guys are are more familiar to the concept AVS so AVS uh was a a term created by Iger and symbiotic uses Network so just to make a parallel here uh so uh the the operational system for reaking that we use in our in our solution is powered by by symbiotic and that's uh first interoperability layer uh okay once we have the the um the operational system we have to attract liquidity right and another uh another protocol that we interoperate with is Renzo because these are the guys who are routing the liquidity through the the operational system in order to secure the chains that not only tensi chain but also the chains that tensi is putting together and launching right um and that's in our tax stack but then of course if you're going to launch many many app chains many uh networks um would be amazing like if if we could make these guys interpretate right so for doing that we are integrating now with ag polygon Ag and cyle network these are two of the uh leaders in this uh in this uh shared shared liquidity uh aspect sorry so that's another aspect of interoperability uh and last but not least uh when you deploy your network with Deni we also have in our base layer um um Native interoperability layer on which you can Bridge assets you can exchange messages uh and that's all like without necessarily using any Bridge so we just use our text stack and our kind of layer zero so to say uh and we provide this interoperability out of the box as well and of course we are integrated with the main uh Bridges and gmps in the market such as axler Wormhole um you know several of them so I think definitely as I was saying in the beginning right so that's definitely one of the the directions that we we are going so multi-chain multi whatever ABS multi Network space um and of course the interoperability is a key part so we definitely need to solve that not only uh for the developer uh not right so improving the developer experience but also uh for the user we it's not trivial to to reach assets so that's that's uh the main challenge I would say in that in that sense yeah I will be the next uh so from uh from you know the train level I will say evm compatibility is the first thing for interrup uh for interrup ability because you know there are uh I would say there are a lot of D5 protocols they're pivoting to you know rw5 RW plus D5 protocols uh into our space and to be the evm compatible chain makes it easier for the protocols uh to move or to transfer from or to be multi-chain basically uh on plume and so that's going to be the first thing and the second thing will be the inter interrup ability between the offchain uh data and the onchain data because we are the R Focus chain and we have a lot of um surprisingly we have a lot of traditional Builders or projects that actually want to deploy on plume so like they're asking for help because they don't understand blockchain but what they can do here is using our tools like we have the data uh highway to provide the Oracle solution and we partner with other third party uh protocol Oracle provider for example like chain link to help them to get on board but with all of those like traditional Builders or traditional project projects Brands IPS they can actually on board on plume with data Highway easily because we have the uh interrup ability from you know uh to to provide for them from offchain to onchain and a third thing is uh the thing that we're building on chain the interruptable the interruptable uh arway yields so which we can take in the assets from other chains like the you know for example like uh ethereum of course and uh some other like uh big layer one and layer twos we can take the assets from their chain and then deploy into our arway staking pool so their users stay their users stay on their chains but at the same time they can get the r yields passed back from plume to their chains so that's also uh kind of like the yield liquidity pool that we're building for other chains too yeah yeah I think inter up I mean if you're going to talk or you've been on like crypto Twitter over the past few weeks you've seen it I think the a big topic um please be loud about it whether that's complaining or building towards it like I I think for the sake of ethereum you know we've skilled we it's amazing we have all this block space but it's it's quite messy if you've used a DEX or even just a wallet it's it's not a good user experience and I think as we merge with trafi we want to make sure that we we are the better user experience so I mean yeah we have been uh working on a standard we actually tried to introduce uh cross chain into the open Zeppelin contracts Library um more than a year ago we had to deprecate it it was very hard to keep up with all the rollups um we've actually just published a new standard um 7786 if you want to take a look at it uh I know there's a lot of other standards out there we're trying to gather uh there are a lot of people meeting this week and hopefully we can you know agree to a Way Forward uh when it comes to VM to evm um yeah messaging obviously there's a lot of like interrup providers like chain link Wormhole Axel lar zero uh and some others but uh I think it's important that we get to a standard and I think in the previous panel someone mentioned that like yeah the the tooling and the user experience is not great I think yeah we it's because we have all these different providers and so um yeah I think it it it's definitely a big Focus for us uh you'll be able to yeah see see the proposal we made eventually that this will come into the library uh obviously we're trying to make it so that you know it's a standard it's vendor agnostic and an open Zeppelin uh hopefully can act as that you know neutral place that that uh people can go to but at the same time obviously you know there's interesting things that chain link provides uh with maybe uh Swift integration right so we've tried to make it as um let's say modular as possible so that you can use if you want to still use Axel you still want to use chain link or any other Bridge provider you can but really make it easy to just have interrup in in yeah in in etherium and I think yeah it's big big problem we want to solve especially as new people come in because you you end up losing people to other other E Systems so yeah and actually we've we also worked hard to to um make it not only evm to evm uh focused right so uh we're we're we've aligned it to the chain agnostics uh Improvement proposals which basically tried to look at non v m as well and as we've actually started expanding open zein contracts outside of solidity we've tried to align our our interrupt standard with that so that should also help I guess with with trfi and maybe some permission chains that are not evm uh but yeah I think that's big big Focus uh yeah very cool so we're almost at time so maybe in the last one minute or two minutes what I would love is for each of the panelists to share how you can support the builders the developers the founders in this room um to really whether it's on permission or permissionless chains I know you guys have already shared a bit but maybe just in 30 seconds to one minute share you know how each of your infrastructure your your blockchains can really support the audience here I can start yeah so the our Holy Grail is pretty much that we don't need to provide any support right because it should be as smooth as possible in a way that uh no support is needed actually all the frame work that I described uh is codeless right so when you deploy your network with tensi it's pretty much like installing a software in your computer so you just go next next next you give give some parameters and that's it right so at the end of the process which take about 10 minutes you deploy your own chain and this chain has already connectivity to wallets block explorers indexers RPC and points all of that all the interoperability that we just described um and then but but you leverage uh resti assets and like re re re liquidity as the the means of security for a chain right so um we have we are very very focused in our documentation so uh the idea is that if this very simple process that we establish is not enough then you have a very robust documentation because um you know if any of you guys here is working in a in a web tree protocol uh as much we talk a lot about interoperability we talk a lot about how uh things should be um you know periz and everything but the very first step of integrating is always let's create a telegram group right so and that's our our idea is pretty much to you know that this telegram group is not necessary anymore so that's uh how we see that but of course like we are super happy to connect to the community always that's just like a a a mantra we have in the product side um and yeah we have different ways to to to interact we are always open to to chat and and telegram uh this Discord whatever is the method WhatsApp it's very used in Brazil signal you guys choose it uh and yeah happy to connect if anyone want to chat before after this yeah I mean uh something we've actually just made public there's a new repo uh if you go to GitHub called open Zeppelin Community contracts uh so you know we're actually starting to make it easier for people to contribute to open zein contracts obviously the vanilla repo is you know where it it gets heavily audited and you know that's production ready code but uh obviously we want to make it easier for people to start building um extensions to the library that maybe cater more towards trafi so you know you can contribute there if you're a developer or see what's what's going on uh and if not yeah we also have you know a booth we have a lot of our team here uh at Devcon so you know feel free to come up to us uh we're really trying to focus on interop we're also doing some stuff around the ERC 4337 and adding that to the library that if you have some cool ideas around like compliance and privacy we're always happy to hear we're trying to we yeah we I don't think we have a clear path forward to how what we add to the library um so yeah we're still in a I guess a research phase there but um yeah if you have any ideas there I wouldd love to talk to you uh yep for plume we have uh different tools first of all it's going to be our tokenization engine for all of the traditional or the crypto users to tokenize their assets easily on PL by clicking a few buttons and you're going to tokenize the assets it's very easy and also we have the modular services that pair with the requirements of each uh protocols for example some of them I need you know support from the compliance side from the kyc side from the legal side we all have uh the supports from there for them and we also have uh the grant program so we're giving out F uh grants uh and if you're the Ari Builder come talk to me and we have over 180 uh ecosystem project building on plume already and they're live on taset uh and we're going to launch them in that very soon it's going to be in a month and also for the user growth uh because I was the CMO at polyhedra I did the largest campaign at okx cryptopedia campaign it was uh with over 100 million participations so you can trust me on user growth campaign and I'm going to lead the u m campaign uh for plume and we're going to have a lot of interesting showcases and um you know like use cases uh for the artway five scenarios so yeah come talk to me if you want to be on plume okay forgot to mention we have grants too so free money so grab these guys all right please join me with a warm Round of Applause to thank our panelist today and thank you so much for your attention back to you Bruno well we almost uh wrapping up here but still have a Q&A session uh I'm going to invite Camila Roha that uh going to lead the this last panel but Camilo is going to also introduce herself and talk a little bit about uh what she's working on uh but Camila feel free and then I'm going to invite the the moderators and the panelists to stay here so if the the public has any questions we're happy to take thank you Bruno for the opportunity and everybody for being around what a journey right so far for those of you who don't know me just yet my name is CA I am the founder and president of wait a second she how are you you doing it so far let me give it to the master because maybe it only replies to Bruno while he tries his best my name is CA I am the founder and president of plexus Institute an Institute focused in democratizing access to the benefits of emerging technology I'm here to do a very quick intro on something something we would love to collaborate on with you guys and also make um an invitation so tomorrow 6:00 p.m. we're going to be in the blue meeting room this is an open space you just if you're here in presence you're going to see it there's no way around it and we are going to be discussing this open call to collab this open call to collab yes we're almost there just when we need it on a very interesting project plexus Institute signed a partnership agreement with a city hall the city hall has one app it's a web two app that has around 1.5 million already people already on board it and they're using this app to have access to public services and to public goods and they inquired us how do we take the next step how do we bring more benefits to the population based on emerging technology what is the role that blockchain blockchain opsource technology could bring to us upon this question what we replied to them that the best thing that this type of Technology could bring is the community so what did we agree on and we can move to the next step doing a partnership where we could invite the community to tip on what type of Technology should be built what type of use cases should be built and they have a very particular interest in this spect which is community currencies Brazil has over 170 Community Banks and Community currencies that don't operate under the same rules as the traditional Banks but rather through legislation that is done on a community and Municipal level so it's an opportunity to experiment with other ways of lending money of paying social benefits and rewarding the population on the next slide where are we right now so we conducted the first assessment on what this technology or the evolution of this web to to web three more connected to the individuals with popular governance could look like and now we are on phase two we landed here with an open Q&A if you would like to scan this qer code we are asking you for feedback what should a wallet provide for in the best ethos of our community how should the individuals privacy be protected what are the best governing rules of a community currency what is the backing that is needed and what type of Economics should this initiative be focused and aimed at after we are done a Iz in this responses they are going to become a public collaborative study the municipality has agreed to host a popup City and do a regulatory sandbox so we can all explore with this opportunity feeling safe in a very nice environment so if this topic is of interest to you please meet me and other fellow people 6 p.

m at the blue meeting room without further Ado let's continue to our Q&A session I would like to invite the moderators to take place uh here again with me maybe give them a round of applause just so they you know you're incited of coming back here please moderators take your seats yes we have the first Courageous one this woman is actually from the municipality that I we signed a partnership agreement with yes let's have Bruno back we still have one chair who's the missing moderator yes amazing so let's start with you the audience does anybody have an interesting question to pose to this amazing group of people come on it's been almost two hours if you are here you really like us can I start with her well my question is actually on the board behind you um it's a philosophical question just given that we're quite a few years on from the Panama papers and the end of um Swiss banking secrecy and so I'm curious what your thoughts on are on the future of privacy in banking especially given how the entire push of blockchain has been about transparency thank you yeah yeah I will say for from the banking level cuz I'm not a banker but you know from my experience talking to all of the Banks I think permission blockchain or permission messaging layer is the must because you have to keep uh you know like the information save within the uh banking system but how it can break the boundary like between the permission blockchain and the uh public blockchain for example plume permissionless blockchain how we can pass the yields or you know accept the assets from them is that basically the interruptibility tool so I say you know the Privacy should be strict and that's how uh all of the banks can protect users privacy and also can match with you know the requirements of uh SEC uh Mas uh hkma but I think on top of that or you know like to pair with that we have a lot of Solutions in the blockchain space like for example like Bridge you know messaging layer relayer Network we have a lot of solutions that can actually bring the good asset to the blockchain or you know actually get the information uh out from the blockchain uh and also I think like again like DK proof can be a very good solution because it can be uh selectively uh disclosed uh for on any kind of information that you want to you know select and provide for the Mas or any kind of regulators yeah so happy to add on so I I think even before we go into the technology just very much just from a regulatory perspective or even just just from a very general perspective I think the the view is that some information has to be kept private and confidential so for example in a lot of countries you have like banking secrecy act that looks at you know the the preserving the the confidentiality of this information and even before that just um gdpr for example uh around privacy uh um of personal identifiable information so I think from that perspective privacy is Paramount there is no you can't even debate that yeah so so yeah just just from that perspective I think um you know you you you can't have any that there just really isn't anywh else around privacy um having said that so from a technology perspective there are really different means of dealing with this need for privacy um especially when it comes to personally identifiable information uh the general approach is don't even think about storing it on blockchain because like what heart was mentioning earlier the whole idea around store now decrypt later you could have it encrypted today you have no idea what will happen to it 5 years 10 years from now so um the general approach is pii we wouldn't even think about storing on blockchain um the next level is really what sort of information do we need private to keep private or confidential again some of these things was mentioned earlier in terms of like maybe certain information are Market sensitive if they are Market sensitive they might be sensitive for a couple of years so from that perspective do you you you probably need to keep it secure for that number of years while on the other hand pii they are pretty much confidential forever which is why you wouldn't want to S them on blockchains yeah oh perfect now just to complement a a small detail I think uh when you have like a regulator a central bank a regulatory Authority or any kind of financial regulator uh sometimes there are uh issues that are Beyond uh its mandate so as we mentioned so we have gdpr Bank privacy act so a lot of those are are legal Frameworks so they're like regulatory Frameworks so even the financial regulator cannot move them so it has to build and solve for these problems or for these Frameworks that are already there as well my uh uh would be that I think like the future is complex and I think it will be Platforms in different levels of privacy so I think there will be applications from different levels but yeah I think like in general terms like the solutions that that we will contract for banks uh or for similar things in the future in general there will be privacy yeah awesome so we also have a second question on the screen but I also wanted to give the opportunity for the people who are in here anyone else it's a quick question uh Wiki would you ever consider you know moving the GP Morgan chain as a rollup on optimism and joining the super chain or any other like rollup sa have you have you gotten offers I it will be back to what I mentioned earlier you know the the question that we always have is from a governance perspective are we able to rely on the underlying technology itself um so I I mean we are definitely looking at row UPS because we see there's a lot of usefulness uh partly from just a scalability perspective as well uh but of course when you think about l2s rolling up to l1's then there's always a question of the governance structure of the L1 itself so um I mean you you mentioned one of the networks but if we could be thinking about any other of the public blockchains we still have the same governance questions that we had so um actually I just had this discussion with like couple of tech folks uh I think last we or the week before so you know if we are not able to rely on the governance of deploying directly on L1 um the same would still apply we wouldn't be able to rely on you know rolling up to that particular L1 itself so that that's just a high level view around what we are able to and what we are not able to based on like current regulatory or current um interpretation of regulations and the governance of these public uh blockchains so maybe to the second question that we have on the panel what's the biggest potential risk of cbdc for institutional Banks how would using a cbdc and blockchainbased platform change the transaction fees the traditional transaction fees for banks okay I I will start with that so um broadly I would say that we generally view uh cbdcs and Commercial Bank money as complimentary uh ABI over there he can probably share a lot more From partal perspective but I I'll just share from my own perspective of having seen it from both sides so on the Central Bank side I started working on MTI cbdc projects um very quickly we realize that we wouldn't from a policy perspective central banks doesn't want to widen assess so if they're not widening assets they always need Commercial Bank to act as an intermediary from say a k kyc AML controls perspective and because of that eventually The Ledger become a two tier Ledger you have cbdcs you have Commercial Bank money now if you look from the other perspective which is from Bottoms Up partal perspective we started with a commercial bank money essentially um like US dollar that are true um JP Morgan as a settlement bank but again very soon you'll realize that from that perspective um you know they they're just you always end up with the need for multiple settlement Banks so example is let's say for example Sing dollar you have DBS as a settlement bank for Sing dollars but what if one of those client is not using DBS Bank by using another of the local banks like U for example so then the question is if you have multi settlement Banks how do you enable settlement across the settlement Banks uh cbdcs again become a very natural solution to that so we have seen it from both sides the eventure uh um Landing point is really a two-tier kind of architecture on a common blockchain itself where you have both cbdcs and Commercial Bank money uh one of the biggest blockchain project out there by central banks today Project Gora I think there's like uh seven central banks and I think over 40 financial institutions this is actually the specific use case that they are exploring uh having both cbdcs and Commercial Bank money on a common platform and how we are able to use that to improve crossb payments so broadly speaking uh I would say that they are complimentary we don't see a lot of competitive elements to it we don't think that we think that you'll definitely make payments a lot more simless but I don't think you'll significantly disrupt uh how payments is being done today yeah just to complement that when you talk about cbdcs there are like different versions of cbdc initiatives and there are different dimensions as well so weq is mentioning the do International Dimension so crossb cbdc uh rails right multi cbdc Arrangements but also there are countries uh such as the ones we mentioned in Brazil that are deploying a infrastructure blockchain based infrastructure that's thinking actually Beyond payments because a lot of those couns already have payment rails instant payment rails already have data with open finance and open banking so they were like thinking what would be like the next chap so like creating an an an infrastructure an ecosystem that can leverage emerging Technologies such as blockchain and label broad to ganization of economy so we're talking in specific situations specific C initiatives more about rwa doation of Securities of financial assets of the capital markets uh not only like the payment side of course the payment lag being like a deposit toiz deposit or cbdc for the wholeale side is very important for the DVP but but uh the asset part I think uh it's the one that's being pushed and it's the actual goal in specific CC initiatives mostly on the domestic level unfortunately we are running out of time so I would kindly ask no maybe the two of you to say a few last words prior to us giving the word back to Bruno oh oh sure so a little bit comments on that so I think uh cbdc is a a great way for uh Coss cross border payment and also on top of that uh we were talking to you know some of the project like from uh project sample they are actually figuring out how how they can pass the yields back to the cbdc holders so so I think you know like partnering with maybe some blockchain Partners can make it more flexible uh you know globally yeah just a little bit comments on that yeah yeah my fin my final comments are related to financial inclusion so we still have 1.4 billion people that are financially excluded and as if you look at the last 10 years years technology was a main driver that helped them help a lot of people not this 1.5 but not 1.4 but other people to be Financial included so I truly believe that this this new technology are unlocking uh new possibilities to financial include people uh either cbdcs uh uh paks uh in Brazil or other other ones so I think it's good and on the other ones once more the invitation to join us tomorrow 6: p.m.

for we're talking about the community currency that brings the possibility that builds upon what you think it should be the best Avenue to bring goods for a population that it's awesome Bruno now handing back to you uh in the name of everybody I think we thank you for the opportunity to be here please your final words oh perfect now just I want to take everyone for spending the last two hours after five panels like of an intense debate with us and we are pretty open to have like some discussions after the panel and I think I had an awesome time also want to to thank all the panelists uh many of them that flew uh to to Bangkok to be here today and presenting to you so and thank you for the th foundation and Dev con team Skyler uh Nathan and all all the gang uh for yeah having letting us have some fun for with you guys for the the best two hours was incredible thank you so much you guys have a nice one and I hope you enjoy Devcon [Applause] you guys want to take a picture