Crypto points: Identity, incentives and you - Marko Jurina | Jumper.exchange

hello um hi everyone uh I hope you're all somewhat rested in the last day was a good conference I'm not really tired um so welcome to my talk the point of no return so the topic is basically going to revolve around um loyalty systems incentivization um Point systems that we all uh love oh second um so a bit of an introduction so we're going to talk about points and loyalty systems in general uh how they work in web 2 um how we can make a transition to web 3 um some common pitfalls that we're seeing with the current incentivization designs and then maybe suggestions at what effective um strategy might be in web 3 um so to start off like users are feeling milked farmed um there's a lot of of uh expectation of a future profit without any immediate tangible rewards for the user and so it it creates this little storm of users feeling they're milked uh protocols don't like it they don't want to launch it but then a protocol the compe competitive protocol launches it has a good user acquisition so they feel forced into it so there's a lot of like shortsightedness and not uh long-term thinking in how uh how these protocols should should be designed or or how these incentivization mechanisms should be designed um and so the purpose of this call is to maybe navigate and speak about how to actually design it so they work effectively in web 3 in the same manner that they work effectively in uh web two so a few initial presumptions uh before the talk is uh loyalty systems work uh and they work really well um in web two at least um but web 3 as I said has a short sightedness problem so it's uh very much oriented towards uh maybe a tge or something and there's no longer term planning in what the point system or loyalty system will be after the TG um so there's kind of a goal optimization problem in a way and what I see happening down the line is probably a proliferation of loyalty as a service or Point as a service systems that actually spend a lot of time figuring the game theory mechanics behind it and offer like module plug-and playay systems that other protocols can plug into and maybe adapt to their uh their specific protocols so first off these numbers um are here to show U not just the effectiveness of loyalty pass loyalty systems in web 2 but the psyche of customers in general so um you know 84% of consumers are more likely uh to stick with the brand that offers a loyalty program um the most successful loyalty programs uh boost 15 to 25% uh annual revenue for uh companies um 65% of companies's Revenue usually comes from the repeat business of EX existing customers uh it's order of a magnitude more expensive to get a new customer uh rather than keep uh an upsell to uh an existing one um 77% of consumers say that they remained loyal to a spe specific brand for uh you know 10 years or or uh more for that matter and so uh um the way they organize it to make it work to make it effective um and the ability that it opens up if it's effective is first of all as a brand you have the ability to develop a different type of relationship with the customer that kind of transcends the transactional aspect of it so a lot of people when they're buying an Apple iPhone or Apple products it's not just the product it's the status that comes with it or it can be you know the the higher you go in the in the luxury scale it's even more extreme to that you cannot buy a specific Ferrari if you don't already have a few of them and stuff like that and it's a very effective method of um creating a very Dynamic relationship between the brand and the customer but in order for a brand to be able to do it it needs to be very data driven so um what that means is you have to really understand who your customers are uh how you cater to them the value proposition defers by each customer it's not uh you know AO system for everyone it's a tiered point system for specific users and they're getting specific benefits based on their behavior um and stuff like that and so the the the Crux of the issue that's kind of replicable in web 2 and web 3 is this uh dynamic between business economic side of what you're giving as value versus you know how much it cost you basically and how much can you lower it in a way that the customer is still happy so in order to do that there needs to be a very clear segmentation and understanding of user Behavior what they do how they do it and this is something that we still haven't really figured out how to translate into web 3 like most protocols unless they're a large team with a lot of people on data side they don't really know who their users are they don't know um you know what makes specific type of user tick um how to cater to a specific user and this is a prerequisite to actually start figuring out okay we have to give something but the value we're giving cannot be more than it's needed for a specific objective so the the value proposition has to always follow strictly what the objective uh in the end is if you give more value you're basically losing a ton of money um as a as a company with no potential upside on uh on the consumer side right and so um to kind of explain it in more practical terms we're going to use two protocols protocol A and B they're both designing loyalty systems and protocol a has a nordstar volume and so volume is easily incentivized in short term very difficult to do it on long term uh in some like scalable manner unless you have unlimited resources and so what protocol a would end up doing they would use you know whatever the protocol is but maybe hopping on narratives on Twitter and using treasury to give out rewards um you know partnering with protocols or projects that have a twoe attention span just for this kind of immediate short-term spikes but what ends up happening is that when you um you know when the Music Stops when you stop the incentives it's done most of the users and volume is a they're basically falling of a cliff uh versus a protocol B where uh a benchmark or an or Star might be habit creation and so in order to have that as a Nord star you have to understand okay what are the the habits or the the actions that are most beneficial to us what type of user is doing it at what frequency they're doing it and how you use that to basically bake it into the incentive program so you push the user into very desired outcome and when you do it in that manner what ends up happening is you didn't really push users to do things they they do just for the incentivization so you've figured out what the behavior is what they're already doing and you've proceeded with that so that there's the expectation of a future profit of a reward through a loyalty program is minimized because the user is already doing something they they are doing you're just pushing them to do it more at your protocol versus a competitor um and so what it leads to is uh a more long-term type of strategy where when the Habit is created it's created and a lot of times when it's created it's very difficult to remove it again even though some new shiny protocol might come but this is going to be baked in into your uh you know muscle reflex and so one of the Notions that we try to design at a jumper is what do we want the user to do and for me it's you know user wants to bridge or swap I want him to do control T and start typing jumper exchange it has to be the first thought that uh that they do and so here uh this is just a little small example in March we've noticed that we were not happy with the ratio of same chain swaps versus cross cross chain swaps so we did basically we gave a little bit more prominence in our loyalty system to same chain swaps followed with an educational campaign of uh same chain swap competitiveness uh that a lot of users maybe didn't know or you know they've used one inch or Unis swap or whatever uh it might be and in two months we've managed to go from 22% ratio to 40% uh ratio with no monetary incent incentives um and then on top of that what ended up happening as well is we grew our market share in s chain swaps from 11% to 26% and so it's a small growth but that small growth is about $60 million of new volume per week um so this is kind of the example of the more longer term um habit creation uh uh in in in the Loyalty system and so this is uh you know we all know these protocols we're all collecting their points uh the problematic part is they all have kind of a finite end and that's the tge um there's really no sense for any of these protocols or they're not showing what do these loyalty systems means post DG like are they included in governance are they going to be used in any way shape or form or they're just kind of you know short-term incentivizing volume that the TG is more successful and then after that everybody hops to uh to to other protocols the only one maybe here that it's still willing to see is blast um it's still ongoing so we'll see how uh how that ends up and so the the pitfalls in in the design uh first of all shortsightedness said it three times that leads usually to inorganic uh growth that you get a cliff when uh when it stops fail implementations which basically entails that you've made wrong presumptions because they were not databased they were mostly hunches and then it didn't really work out how you wanted it to work out and one that's interesting maybe a bit Hot Topic because of it's It's not following the cyper funk Narrative of transparency but like opening up the book is actually counterproductive meaning if you really show how points are ACR for what XY Z you're basically opening the system for gaming or to be gamed so actually keeping it more vague um helps with you know for it not being gamed and subsequently getting more organic type of uh type of usage and so to kind of conclude with uh on a positive note how it should be built in a way uh is well first focus on organic engagement not short-term Spurs of volume or users or whatever um data and this is something I think is crucial to web 3 not just in sense of the Loyalty path but in general we're really falling behind in terms of understanding the users uh at least at a level that maybe like web two companies do and that really hurdles the the you know the data uh the the the decision- making process and uh kind of building out uh these systems um and there a few points like create deeper meaning so the deeper meaning is relatable to the protocol uh how to kind of transcend this oh there's going to be value in the end so for example how we do it is posting on Twitter uh and we do it well and it's good it works uh someone has to like figure out their own uh way to do it uh offer a variety of rewards have you know different actions that you're rewarding that cater to different types of customers um that youve kind of segmented in in different clusters um structure non-monetary rewards around the customer values so one of the things we're doing is um for our community were organizing different IRL events so in Dubai we had a skydiving Event in Austin we had a bull riding event and it kind of Fe fits into the the slogan of the company which is make the jump and you make the jump then you chains kind of exploring the unknown you have to be brave to do it and so these IRL events are this kind of non-monetary way um of having that feeling and building that relationship with them that again transcends the transactional aspect of oh I'm using it I'm potentially getting uh reward in the end and uh most important thing I think make it a game we all know in this industry people have uh gamified things a bit of panomics is always I guess welcome but uh making it fun and interactive for the users is probably the most important aspect um as well so to kind of conclude we need to provide common goods that private part participants without the coordination of protol they cannot get to um and the future that we need to build this with is designing it sustainably data driven and very user oriented so one of the things I I really believe is point systems are here to stay so web2 showed us in decades that like they work we are just super early to figure out how they work in web 3 and how we can actually use them sustainably and so for me this is you know moving into governance it's giving more ability uh once the TG of a token happens that you can actually use points to have a more fair Democratic process it's not just token weighted but now they're getting some points that can spend just you know um there's a lot of development that can be done because it is another ability to give uh kind of reputation um or importance to specific actors uh within within the protocol um and yeah thank you for listening to my incentive talk open to questions if there's any yeah um so data four well we have like the growth for example of number of users so we've implemented uh our loyalty system uh August 15th last year um and since then we've had 500,000 unique new users and out of these uh about 350,000 are actually actively participating in the Loyalty program where they um participate in the campaigns and stuff like that so those we would attribute to the growth of the um like success of the Loyalty system right thanks for for the speech uh I have a question regarding like how uh you're trying to avoid farmers in your protocol like or just coming to jumper exchange just to farm points like many different accounts um and like in the for the future a drop yeah so um it's really difficult to do it at this level so one of the things that we have implemented is you cannot grow more than one level a month so there's a a big aspect to time to it so while we cannot 100% stop Farmers we can make it uh that it's actually like really time intensive to do it um and that's that's kind of it once we actually get into clustering you can notice that there's a lot of like you know clustered players um but uh for once you know if there's no governance and and stuff like that it doesn't really make that much difference now uh in a way to do like you know kyc sibles and stuff like that so it's mostly like trying to organize a system that is just like more difficult difficult or more expensive or more time prohibiting for you to grow 100 wallets for example okay uh and uh also like um what if I will generate just like a greater script and generate I don't know like 1,000 different wallets and uh for every every of this wallet I will get uh the first level and I can do like the same in next months and all this stuff it will be the same like there could be many different uh like Farmers like this yeah but if we do like cluster checks um we're it's on us to remove you right so it's not it's the protocol is not designed a way that it's super inviting to to Farmers there's a lot easier things to farm um and also there's no you know there's no token there nobody ever talked about the token so it's it's just a this like a Twitter hype in a way um but yeah it no no sense in like developing super elaborate and expensive methods to to stop people from from doing it because they don't know what's at the end of that Road right um and then if we notice that there's like skewness of rewards for example to specific subset of clusters of wallets we're going to remove them because we want the actual community members to do it and then the second part as well is that there's an offchain aspect to it as well it's not just onchain so you being active in Discord helping and support translating content for us uh running uh different language social media accounts organizing IRL events for us coming to an IRL event for us these are all things that also give you a lot of actual like backend uh value in a way where you still have points like everyone else but we actually know that you're a real person we know that you're active in the community and that gives a lot of value that you can't kind of replicate with just you know creating clusters of wallets and doing a lot of volume okay yeah thank you it makes sense what's the next real life event where someone can jump uh uh so the next one is going to be etcc uh but we don't know yet what it will be the idea is we try to find something that's like you know uh local to the place we're at the problem is Brussels is the most boring city in Europe so uh it's a bit of a struggle to find something authentic uh there yeah okay yeah okay we we'll find it done hey um you guys introduced the profile pick thing recently um sorry you guys introduced the profile picture thing right um do you guys have any plan for it or is just for for fun so um first this enters this kind of non-monetary relationship building with uh with the user so the idea behind it is okay like we we really like pepas like really like pepas and we wanted to just do something with that for the community so we created a um basically a collection where up to a million users can have a unique Pepe and so the longer term idea is that as we partner with more chains more protocols we make more exclusive layers that play into the vanity side of things because you're not going to be able to sell the layers so the idea is at one point like now it's a visual representation basically if your uh you know pass level and the pdas you have collected within but uh the more specific or the more uh exclusive the campaigns will be um the more exclusive the layers will be as well so if someone wants to use it as a pfp it can also be a recognition in a way and then down the line you know it's it's still an nft it can be used in in in a variety of ways in in any system of like governance voting and and stuff like that yeah okay um one more question do I have one more okay go for it so I mean I asked on Discord like do you guys do you guys have any protocol fee they said no um because I noticed that the any bridge is really cheap at your platform so I love it so I'm curious like what is your main source of income yeah so uh on the UI front we're not taking any fees so anything everything every fee that it's paid it's the underlying Dex Dex aggregator or the bridge um jumper doesn't like at this moment make revenue from the actual front end yeah okay cool thank you pleasure done thank you it's a pleasure oh what a just a massive Round of Applause for Marco guys it was amazing when I was hearing about jumper exchange and please check it out guys jumper. exchange I was thinking about that movie with Samuel Jackson and he's flying all over the world but I heard someone ask my question which is when's the next event so if you guys want to attend make sure did you do you share your Twitter handle uh I actually didn't oh cool we'll get tell everybody your Twitter before you go off Zordon z o r D4 n so check out Zord another round of applause super easy to type super easy to type all right amazing thank you Marco brother take care and another big round of applause for Marco guys