Redefining DAOs: State of DAOs in Asia | Devcon SEA

[Music] everybody Welcome to Dev con my name is Dev um and I hope you guys are all uh feeling good today uh quick show of hands how many of you are arriving to Bangkok Devcon nice I see some hands cool welcome welcome um so I don't have the clicker yet uh is there a clicker around to move the slides uh but we'll keep going uh to the next slides but this is a panel on the state of dows in Asia um which is going to go into uh a number of different themes uh really capturing the state-of-the-art of where THS are uh and we really joined by a a beautiful panel of people uh who've been doing research in the space and have a lot of data to share with you we'll do a quick introduction uh it'll be very engaging ke to get some of your thoughts as well on where you think daa and then we'll go straight into the panel with the presentations and then we'll have a conversation um so first off who are we um so this panel represents um dowar Asia which is a non for-profit project aiming to explore uh and promote and catalyze diverse forms of dows and decentralized communities is globally uh this represents metav represents daa uh and represents Pagoda as well which is a another community formed in Asia looking at weaving decentralization with human layers of coordination and um yeah so I think this group really represents uh a lot of the state-of-the-art of research of what DS look like in Asia especially and why that might be different from what that looks like in other parts of the world which some of you may be from and how can we take this conversation forward towards really um yeah I think fulfilling some of the infinite Garden uh visions that ethereum Community has um so we have today presentations that will really touch on some of the reports uh that are on the screen you can see um you can scan this QR code to download the the the lovely reports um each of them are very in-depth case studies a lot of data I'll give you a few moments now to like pick up your phone and scan and there's a report coming out soon as well that we'll look at the the greater China region um but we already have a nice a nice collection of reports what you will hear uh today um on this panel as well um our motivation the motivation from the scholars that I have on the stage here today was really to expand the discourse um the discourse in da has evolved over time and we're at a state today where we really need to perhaps move forward in terms of our definitions of how do we even think of dows and why are they useful what what's the real value that comes from it and how can we you know find that value and grow from there and to engage local Partners right Dows are ultimately about human level coordination partner level coordination and so how can this research initiative as well catalyze a new community catalyze more Partnerships especially in Asia as this nent social technology starts to grow um and evolve so here comes the engaging part uh hope all of you had your coffees and teas and breakfast uh cuz we have questions for you um we have a a slido session here um you can scan this code and we'd love to hear from you uh what are the key words that come to your mind when you think of THS um this is uh yeah any key wordss anything that comes up uh when you think of dows um you can SL you can scan this and it will actually populate live for us all so we can actually get a live Cloud mapping um of what this room thinks about cool I see open source I see Community uh of course we have decentralization give a few moments uh decentralized organization yes governance more governance perhaps not enough governance voting coordination but governance seems to be the winners okay community community up in the lead now uh nice we all like community even though we all don't struggle to Define what it is and I think uh that'll be part of our probably the research as well so this is useful uh onchain treasury cool so I think we're seeing um quite a bit uh so this data is actually going to be used useful I think as part of of the research effort so thank you for sharing coffee okay maybe we can unpack that in the discussion guys what do you think um cool so we move to the next slide um I think we have a few minutes voting nice nice I think this that's a nice diverse Set uh thank you for sharing uh we'll move it next we' got another question come up to you okay quick room poll and I think you can probably see this already if you have the link popped up uh how significant do you believe those are so six if you think it's going to be the most transformative technology and one not at all significant um so we see we're seeing we're seeing a lot of neutrality that's that's beautiful neutrality is often lacking in this world uh five six okay still still strong on four so I think that's that's leaning towards the optimistic side that's that's nice balance um we'll give it a few more moments if you haven't voted please vote your vote counts really uh okay okay I think we're happy with that 40% uh feel feel feel good in the middle and finally um what problems do you think D can solve in Asia uh here's the tricky one uh you can take another moment to just reflect and think about uh what problems do you think th could solve in Asia so I guess the first question maybe is like what problems are do we have in Asia that require solving uh and then maybe think about where Dows could come in uh to help address this um we're living in Thailand there's a lot of climate uh issues here flooding record floods uh just recently in in Northern Thailand uh we have Burning Season that happens in the this whole region we have uh a lot of Charity and and you know social impact uh issues in this region I'll go back I see oh yeah oh yeah okay so we're still waiting for sponsors I guess this is this is fair you need some time to but I think it'll be great okay we see infrastructure coordination yeah we'll so the some of the the problems that you bring up here we'll try to bring up in the discussion uh Point towards the end of the panel so we'd love to hear International funding language social goods Commons Community Bank transparency in governance so we're back to governance again reduce the size of government okay popular popular themes I see six more participants typing Asian domination okay we have we have some uh um Big goals here uh opportunity knowledge manager systems democratize energy okay okay maybe they should meet the Asian domination person uh governance again opportunity Community engagement nice okay that's quite a few problems already uh for us to solve cool we'll we'll bring up some of these things um towards the the discussion help prevent corruption all right uh thank you for that it's nice to get a sense of what thought are floating in this room and moving that from the invisible layer to on the screen um with that we'll move to our first Speaker Jen who is got a lovely report on the state of DS in Asia Jen over to you okay hello my name is Jen uh so the authors will try to summarize the report in 5 to 10 minutes so this is the Korean one okay before we start first things first it's a disclaimer that there are actually no doubts in the state of DS report in Korea so the Dows I interviewed were all like oh yeah DS are so cool but we're not a dow so I think that fun fact about da report says a lot already says a lot about Kore and Dows um but yeah so to give a bit of more context uh I think the Asian way of communication is context setting like context weaving so I'll be talking more about the context than the report itself but how I started uh the research is for me crypto is like if I bow down crypto it will be all about sovereignty that's what I felt uh but I don't think it's a big thing in Asia like and I always found those Hollywood movies like romanticizing someone who rage quits his usually his his own like community and then like become a lone wolf like survive alone in the Mars that kind of thing uh pretty random like I can assure you there's going to be no movies like that in Korean or Japanese or Taiwanese um yeah so I was like okay if crypto is going to penetrate Asia it's not going to be about sovereignty so what's going to what what is it going to be um so I had some uh op like options like oh is it going to be Harmony like collectivism and then I always wanted to do a meme driven research so I was looking for a meme on collectivism and this is what I found so I was like oh it's a very evil looking it looks worse than Mok itself and individualism is like the shiny shiny night like uh defeating collectivism so I was like oh okay it's a for me collectivism is just another operating system and there's probably a lot of misconception about it so cuz like if you ask me for me it's more like this it's like yeah cuz trustless cods been around for like a while now like smart contracts don't need to be on CH like protocols but they don't seem to have solved like single-handedly solve the coordination failure um yes and one thing that helped me understand this difference between OS was uh the rice fing and wheat farming so uh I mean and then if you're you're born into a climate right so you don't choose which crop you're going to grow and if you're born into a rice farming climate then uh it's probably like a lot of rain but rice still requires like three times more water than wheat so there needs to be a village level coordination for the irrigation and then it's much more labor intensive but then in return rise can support like 50% more people per capita so there's like a trade-off and on the other hand there's wheat farming that only requires rain so if you don't like your villagers you can rage quit and just be a lone raner um yes so yeah and last last context um I found that there's a preference over centralization for Koreans uh it's like it's been throughout our like thousands of history and also uh so this is another popular meme of the Korean War it's like 1950s back then we used to be the the biggest export was babies um because there were so many War orphans they are both probably were reference too um and yeah the graph is like GDP per capita and you can see South Korea is like near France and UK um and that began in 1990s I think so if we go back to 1960s and the World Bank says like the GMP was like 60 something dollars so I was like oh but it wasn't a typo it was literally like 60 something dollars um so it was like double digit growth every year and what led that growth was the centralized approach of the government and the conglomerates so it was very top down it was very much like a North Korean um econ economic growth model that's the statue of the North Korean leaders people bowing down so um I don't think we have a natural tendency to dislike centralization like can you guys see the slides actually just at the front it's okay oh okay just worried that we're blocking it yeah okay we're good okay so yes finally uh it's about the report okay so I found the three groups of uh Dows I mean of course it's not comprehensive um but yeah let's dive in so the first one was conglomerates those who led the Korean Economic Development and all of them wanted to Tinker with blockchain but there were regulation and nfts were less regulated and then there was like an nft bull cycle you can see that the release dates are like 2022 um so all the conglomerates like LG Hyundai like uh SK they had at least one subsidiary uh B an nft but it was mostly uh like CU they already had like um membership perk kind of um Community not really a community group so they just decided to add an nft on top so there's like a Hyundai Mobility uh L very cute nft that uh sold out instantly but we all know what happens to a NFD community that does not have a community um but to be fair like uh how many companies NFD companies survived um CU I think they all uh liked the community partner so that was the one uh one sector and the second one are fan clubtails so one day I ran into a spread Google spreadsheet ran by Army the BTS uh fan clubs and it was really similar to what I was working on with bankl style so I was like oh wait it's all Dow it always has been so um another context is that Koreans love to sing and if you guys haven't noticed already we produced some good like competition shows um like culinary War black and white I don't know if you guys watched it if you like cooking I recommend it uh but anyways this produce 101 was really a popular uh show and just like startups trying to find pmf uh entertainment companies also need to find like which artist the fans or the market wants and what's the better way than to just ask directly to the fans to vote on their favorite Idol so this was like really huge popular in Korea there were they started with oneone people like literally and then you know at the end there was a um girl group that uh was produced out of them so literally the community members were the producers um but then it turned out the voting was manipulated and the producer of the show actually ended up like getting a jail sentence so it was a huge huge Scandal um and this is where Onre voting comes in so I'm pretty sure that the world's most vibrant Dow governance is this uh girl K-pop girl group named Trip s uh they do their voting on Chen uh you can find the Dune dashboard uh by hashed um yeah and the community is growing the so the uh the photo cards that the fans collect they are ERC 721 and then if you hold that you get the governance token um yeah but there are of of course like limitations uh they are not seen as Financial assets uh deliberately the team really carefully uh designs it not to look like a Financial assets because if they do uh guess guess what would happen um the the details would be for another talk so I can skip that part but yes if you if you're curious we can come back in the Q&A session and the last ones are the um the more recent iterations of the decentralized communities so this is thethan this is a Kang which is a traditional dance of cre uh looks weird but if you actually do it it's more enjoyable um yeah so uh last context the pyramid is crumbling down meaning there is no more double digit growth and if there is like if the econom is growing your optimal path is to just follow the centralized I don't know uh to get into a big centralized entity and then just climb up the ladder but if that thing doesn't exist like what's your optimal solution people are I think kind of not sure at this point because uh it's it was a popular meme like a couple of years ago that two biggest bluffing for wage workers is first to oh I'm going to quit my job and then second is I'm going to start YouTube so I think they're getting getting somewhere like oh maybe create our economy I don't think this pyramid is going to last but we're still a bit unsure so I guess this is where the decentralized organizations come in um again lots of text we can uh I'll just uh try to be brief the first one is stakeholder Dow laab um you can see it says Share value growth grow together it doesn't sound much like a LLC kind of uh slogan right so the name of the company was W do Labs it means labs for everyone and then the founder wanted to uh reward Equity to the contributors who were not employees and then it was it wasn't possible in the existing legal framework so that was when the question started like oh okay so traditional uh organizations can do it what what are options we have uh so they're still iterating actively uh the second one like uh they want to promote more zero waste lifestyle they are the network of cafes they want to share the reusable cups because if you if customers don't don't bring their own cups um yeah you want to share it then freaky Fox crew they also have their own like create uh Community currency to incentivize what uh like regenerative activities they want to incentivize and then have a market uh woman space camp they aim to be a POA Village they also have uh Community currency and then there's wind flow out I guess if you speak speak Mandarin uh you can you speak Chinese you understand what it means like a Eastern Vibe like autonomous beings like being one Oneness like Ness um yeah and then one interesting common factor I found among those decentralized communities is that they all have or want to have their own Community currency um and the best movie that helped me understand cryptoeconomics and Community currency is actually John Wick uh because they have their own like whole assassin economy like uh I IOU kind of then trust in relationship means more than monetary uh transaction or values um yeah and closing thoughts but more like uh more questions I didn't realize I wrote so much when I was creating this slide uh I'll just use the F uh read the first one so I feel like there's no imate uh need or want for Korean decentralized organizations to like go on chain right now because I think it's again it's like a different kind of os right we want to build more trust and then expand that trust Network because like currently at least it's under the dumbers number so you don't you don't really need the trustless scalable technology uh yes uh I think that would that would be it for Korea and I'll pass the mic to Ivon hello I'm Ivon and I'm a active participant and contributor in the Civ te community and also web three Dow communities in Taiwan so I co-author the state state of dows in taian report and I'm going to share a little bit into the report later so um to begin with the report I want to share an overview of the Dows in Taiwan so for the current Dows in Taiwan that are more more active there are several different DS like FB D Dow zero volume D put and Sho do so this different dlls um they have different projects for faap do they focus on art collection and also action mechanism and Implement implementation on social goods and for dzero it's a subgroup of gozero which is the largest Civ community in Taiwan and it focus more on public goods for volum Dow it focus more on art collection and generative art and it is also currently holding a exhibition called dialogue and it it is now exhibiting in s so if anyone is in Korea you can try to um take a look over it and bua hosts the largest crypto and blockchain event in Taiwan every year on December which is Tye blockchain week and sha is a subgroup of bua it connects student builders in among different uh Taiwanese blockchain student clubs so this is a overview um some photos from different events from the taian style organizations so on the front um on the top we can see tab blockchain week and the exhibition that I just mentioned and also um a student hackathon held by shal and on the bottom we can see fabd Gatherings and also there's a cowork held together by Dow zero and bu so actually D in Taiwan we have a quite strong Community which I think most of people here also mentioned Community is a very um important keyword for you if you think of DS so many thousands taian work together and we'll also cover it later so and another picture here is a gathering in a museum that um volum da works with in the tab Fine Arts Museum and this is also a digital art initiative and project and taking the idea from zero Justice article we also try to um distinguish different process of participants in Lal Community here so we try to um Define different identify different participants here into external observers Casal contributors committed contributors and also core teams and we interview several participant in Lal communities and try to see what's their suggestions and their experience when participating in the Dow systems in Taiwan we found that actually for the core teams and committed contributors they often face some difficulties among balancing efficiency and opening up participation because it sometimes takes time for people to do more decentralized um voting mechanisms or when they try to do decisions but it also opens more possibilities to be more transparent and for casual contributors and external observers we found that the scale of thousand Taiwan are usually not that big because people sometimes face intention problems when they join the community sometimes there's not enough onboarding mechanisms or um motivation for them to stay longer and sometimes there are just so many things for them to to try to understand what we can do or what I can do in the community so if we want to tackle is we also find some potential Solutions based on um people's overview and interpretation of their understanding of DS in Taiwan so because um many Dows May face some problems of relying on only a few members for decision so people um give suggestions about establish a more timely rotation mechanisms to tackle this and for some inheritance of experience maybe we can use effective Knowledge Management System and I I also find it very interesed to compare the different um running mechanisms in how people government their doubts differently in different um different countries in different cities by like reading all the report this time and here are some characteristics in tiny Styles so I think one most important keyword for me if I would use one word to describe do in Taiwan is community because we really have a strong community and a Tha relationship among many members in different DS and also people use unique perspectives and try to develop International correction to um discover and try to tackle with some charity and social Innovation issue so I'll try to cover uh go through very quick on some projects that I find very interesting among T Styles so this one is buy faap out and it called project percentage so people who buy these nfts their money will go collectively into a public founding founding pool and then for people later if they saw some interesting projects people in the art Bank people in charge of the founding pool can use this found to um found fundraising that kind of projects so for example I mentioned the dialogue exhibition earlier and this exhibition was held by volume D and it rotates among toil Ty Bay SW and also Beijing and for this event actually fabal and volum together they initiate a project called Taiwan hyper awesome guide book so it tries to use hypers Sears into um this project so if you donate $10 to this exhibition using hypers you can get one hyers and FB Do's project percentage fing pool will also donate 10 USD so um the amount of donation in the end of the program is over 10 uh 1,000 USD by individuals so fapa also donate one over 1,000 USD so in a total it's like 2,000 USD and it also helped the exhibition to grow larger and cover some expenses together so I think thousand Taiwan they work quite closely with each other and they try to initiate some um unique mechanisms to solve some issues together and mentioning about um Community although this is not very related directly related to DS in Taiwan but we have a study group called wey for all and it was coordinated among lawyers um people focus on education government public um public rules and many different topics are discussed in this book club and I'm also started to participate um when I was a high school student so actually vitalik joined us several times before and he wrote on the end of my childhood article that he when he joined this book club he think that he tried to ReDiscover the inner high school student and this picture is actually um Audrey and glenwell trying to explain their poity book so talking about poity um also want to show a little bit into the polarity book here so this is a indefinite diversity in infinite combinations which is a picture from the poity book and I want to add a little bit on the sh way which is the mandering word here just above Audrey's head actually should we in English means digital but you can also interpret it in mandering as um many people many people work together to um fight or to solve together public good issues and use technology to tackle new problems and I think this graph um can um can conclude that what people do in Taiwan and what thousand Taiwan are strive for and this is also a graph by Moda the ministry of digital Affairs in Taiwan it tries to um conclude the LI limit possibilities among the Democracy Network in Taiwan so it identifies different roles and their potential potential applications inside the Tes community so here comes the last part of my sharing today so this is not the D study that we are doing this time this was a dow study a more thoroughly Dow Study last year but we did it in mandering so if you um cannot remembering maybe you need you can use some technology to help you and this is a d study that we covered last year quite thoroughly that have topics amount our regulations and koala model law and also laal um description in Taiwan so I think it will be helpful for you to learn more about the situation more thoroughly in among thean Society thank you thank you Ian that was really informative next we'll move to Joe from Singapore yeah all right uh yeah hi everyone um so my name is Joseph I'm an engineer turn expiring social scientist born and raised in Singapore uh yeah so two years ago what's happening in Singapore everyone's talking about Dows but what are Dows really back then well DS were about nfts DS were about raising funds selling Arts raising funds for community and doing something with that but two years later today um Dows are defi uh local Dows are dead so all the communities which we had two years ago uh kind of all faded Into Obscurity um so the purpose of this report really was to understand why aren't there any more DS left in Singapore so who talks about DS in Singapore today well definitely not the web Community most of it either comes from Academia or it comes from either like uh delegates participating in global DS or Deens I guess um but yeah there's still a ton of open questions about Dallas in Singapore um on the left side uh we just have a sample of like some local web the communities in Singapore and the question really was why do these web the communities not call themselves DS why don't they identify as a d on the right um it's just a sample of some uh communities in Singapore I'm involved in nothing to do with web 3 but I was always curious like why don't these local communities care about web 3 Technologies so really what we're trying to do is uh expand the Dow discourse um and how I went about going doing that uh was to go beyond uh the web the community in Singapore so uh the report involved lots of interviews um and we interviewed uh a lot of people in web 3 but also tried to find people outside of web 3 so on the right were some phrases we use to recruit participants in our studies uh we use phrases like techn pessimistic Community Builders or communities closer to social movements than def5 protocols uh so yeah this was designed to try to find people who might be interested in Dows but they don't really identify as DS uh so this this was kind of the research methodology um first chapter was about understanding DS in Singapore this was just like death research second chapter was uh interviews with 12 Local web 3 Builders uh about the evolution and critique of dows and finally it had four interviews with local community organizers um about making DS relevant in Singapore so yeah why don't local communities identify uh as a dow uh I'll say really the the core uh argument I'm making um is what I call the commodification of community uh I think over the past two years we've seen a lot of uh efforts in the name of community uh but what we realize is that many ds kind of of because they join for the money they join for the promise of progressive decentralization but they're not really working towards a collective goal another reason is the limited applicability of Technology um so we've had experiments with uh you know quadratic voting uh trying to engage a 65y old man and explaining uh what cryptoeconomics is like these kind of Concepts they're still really theoretical and Abstract at this moment and it's we need to improve the the ux to make DS relevant uh and finally like local communities or especially the web the ones they trying to shed or or get rid of the cultural baggage of DS um Dows have a lot of financialized narratives uh which yeah communities are trying to move away from so why are local DS uh important to DS in general well real world impact materializes locally and currently all Ds uh they tend to when we think of DS we tend to think of Def we tend to think of global in nature but without local DS what's actually happening is what localities become defined by the globalities so like the our local whatever is happening in our local gets defined by by the global so it's kind of like a a a modern day colonialism of sorts um yeah and but yeah maybe you might ask a question like why local da and not just a local community why do we need doubt what's the point of all of this uh I I wouldn't say I have the answer um but I think this is an open question for everyone to to figure out together the whole Community um I made an attempt at a preliminary definition um it's local DS being about uh encoding possibilities of organizational activities and using this to ACR Collective power which will allow uh local DS or local communities to interface uh better with larger institutions and Global Systems so earlier on in a sideo someone mentioned inter AAL funding this is a very good example for how local communities can tap on International sources of money or or power things like that um to improve their goals um yeah and that would just be a finding better ways to digitally organize beyond our existing tools today so yeah the opportunity really is to uh make local DS relevant uh in the report I talk about a nonprofit foundation in palita care uh nothing to do with web 3 but they're using some uh terminology we we use in D um besides that we also have uh the Institute of policy studies um some applications of uh citizen participatory budgeting and citizen design uh so these are conversations which aren related to D but which I think have a lot of value and in connecting because it's it's simply about activating communities which fundamentally is what uh DS are about so yeah with end off with yeah how might we make local DS relevant uh and I guess we can move on to the panel talk now cool thank you Joel thank you Jen thank you Ivon so uh conscious of time I think we sort of reaching the last eight minutes um I think we also have a QR code that people can scan and submit questions so I think I'll will'll give people the time to do that please scan and submit questions uh but maybe I'll sort of open uh a quick question for the panel um so maybe there were a lot of interesting themes and given time I think maybe I'll root it in a two-part question where do you see the where do you think the future of dows in Asia particularly should go and going off to your point Joe of the local Dows what are some of the maybe local problems that you see are important and what are maybe some of the yeah like ways that local communities can use th in an effective way um so having now laid up the landscape today where do you see this going and perhaps this could be you could answer this for your own country or sub regionally as well for Asia um maybe I'll I'll start with yon and I'll move move this way so I think a quick thought into this is what I expect D to do more in lonis landscape will be resource distribution because as what I um talk a little bit earlier about the exhibition in the hyper donation I think for people in this area because most of the um many social charities in Taiwan or organizations that focus more on um social issues they often Focus they often found themselves struggling with like fundraising and having more money to carry out what they really care about and I think web three Technologies and D mechanisms can really help to help them to like better discover resources and distribute them to those who really need thanks ion so research distrib J um I guess it wouldn't be as voluntary like I don't imagine creating companies be like oh D are so cool and we need to go on chain um cuz I think if you don't want to scale you can use the traditional way of coordination that we are so good at um but I think it will be more like a forest because if we want to go Global like Global fun raising or like Global coordination that it's much better to go online and then go on chain um cuz we do have problem of uh declining population uh we maxed at 2020 I think and then we're like we're disappearing from the face of the Earth uh so we are forced so now the academics are feeling it like there aren't enough students in the PHD uh and then like five years the it will be the companies that they that's feeling the burn right so the organization will be forced to coordinate online and tap into Global resource so I guess Global coordination yeah back to coordination Joe yeah sure um so I think that okay so even though I introduced this distinction uh between uh local and Global DS um in the report uh one of our interviewers actually mentioned that uh local or Global doesn't matter what DS are about is it's about open openness um and it's it's about collaboration so um I feel like the to me the future of Dallas is kind of like somewhere in between I I I think we don't have enough research yet to conclude that uh DS don't work for communities of less than dbas number less than 150 but personally I think that's that's the view I'm more moving towards so if you look around in think of the communities you are participating in um most of them are going to be less than 150 or they're going to be really really big uh we don't have the the much of the in between so where I think it might help is in like kind of like social movements or like philosophy based kind of movement so in my mind I'm thinking of like the forest School philosophy or even like the postgrowth uh social movements so these are like kind of ways of thinking which they are local activations you have local communities meeting up to discuss uh about about these social issues and figure out how do we I don't know lead a postgrowth life uh as an example but uh there's actually a whole Global movement around that as well which a lot of local communities are disconnected from the global conversations so I think the future of Dallas really it's about uh finding a way to better coordinate the interface between the local and Global or like to create like a new like mesle level kind of community uh that can allow like maybe communities in in Taiwan Singapore Korea to like work together instead so I I think yeah that to me is like the promise of th interesting um we have about a couple minutes left if there any questions I don't see any on the screen yet so I guess no one sent any but if you like to raise your hand we can also do human level coordination without the QR code there will be uh and uh yeah feel free to to raise your hand I'm sure there are there are some questions that are bubbling um but I think it's it's really interesting I mean Jen you brought up in the presentation about the the wheat versus rice and how environment you know defines our coordination and defines what we need from Community um and sort of hearing from you Joe as well just talking about the you know the the local the lack of local Dows and this heavy Global almost like colonization and it was interesting also hearing on the different ways that the ecosystems have grown right I think from Jen there was a lot of conglomerate there was a lot of big like K-pop big culture in Taiwan we had maybe maybe a bit more like a lot of heavy local well maybe you know Singapore there were lack of local DS but here we have maybe an abundance of local DS uh I wonder how you could see this sort of cross-pollination take place where perhaps there's examples like where conglomerates are able to do things that with the scale and resources that local communities can't uh I was wondering like how you can see cross-pollination between either like your three countries or other parts that can help us yeah like each help sort of address the strengths weaknesses of each other and in a true fashion kind of have a bit of a uh for the lack of a better word and I and I use this very heavily like a Pan Asian you know uh level of of coordination uh yeah any any thoughts on that on sort of cross-pollination I think there are some questions on the QR code okay oh okay um do we know how to get the questions up yeah okay um we do have a couple of questions right over there uh feel free to continue scanning the QR code if you have a few more questions you can also vote um the questions you most resonate with uh or you can go to your devcom passport and look for this uh session and then SC uh scroll up and then you'll find it at the bottom so you can ask questions but maybe we can start off with the first question yeah looks like we have a bonus 10 minutes we we realized uh so okay first question what happens if the girl groups I'm assuming we're talking about K-pop uh girl groups are perceived as the financial assets this was the trip S I think yeah yeah actually I I uh actually there's a better person to answer this question in the audience but I'll I'll take since I have the mic I'll answer uh so there was one group that tried actually for a very famous uh uh Idol in Korea and then they did have Financial value and what happens I mean I guess it happens all around d right it it's not it's not a governance token anymore it's a financial token so like inside the fan clubs the people who are in incentivized by monetary gain like there's sudden like a rush inside and then there are probably a lot of disagreements between the two right and guess who wins uh if the the two parties fight so yes uh yeah I mean you can see the similar graph for the uh that nft to yeah uh I I can take the next question uh on the Burma uh yeah I think this is a really really good question uh I think it's important to talk about um yeah like there's definitely uh a lot of maybe the most core use case for Dow might actually be be found here uh which we haven't discovered yet like how like um uh you know data money like I mean uh Bitcoin is most used in the the most useful use case of Bitcoin is in countries with hyperinflation so maybe the most useful use case of DS is in is in such countries so yeah uh reach out to to us uh dstar Asia and we can discuss like working together to do like a state of Dallas in Myanmar that would be awesome yeah definitely uh next question internal politics are a factor in decision- making in communities do you think proposals should have the space within D to influence the community's vote if not how can we reduce the number of I'm assuming that's bad actors um in the question uh any any any take us for that so it's internal internal politics do you think proposers should have space within those to influence I think proposers already have lots of space um there are some studies showing that yeah like we shouldn't even be we've been distracted talking about onchain voting when most of the soft power is actually in who gets the right to create the proposal or who's who gets the right to get the attention on the proposal uh they made so yeah I it's it's important um which is why the conversation should go beyond just like onchain voting stuff yeah yeah and I think I want to add something for for the T situation so I think for most of the Dos in Taiwan um most of them like work in Discord and they um some of them have a regular once a week meeting so people can feel to join if they want to discuss something and they will be like people moderating and if you want to give a suggestion or a proposal you can always like post it and people will be happy to discuss with you if that's reasonable yeah one thing I was surprised when I hearing about Taiwanese Styles is that they like don't vote as often as a way of making like coming to a agreement cuz there's always like a thick context and always like just weaving of conversations so yeah I guess there already is like a soft soft Social Capital part already so yes cool next question I love this question simple crisp to the point what is the point of dows uh I'm hearing words like openness and inclusivity yeah um I think we we've already addressed that I think in different ways but uh perhaps we want to uh be a sharer yeah uh I can take this uh yeah I agree what's the point of DS which is why nobody in Singapore has says that we are DS so I agree with this question uh I'm going to combine this with the third question below here which is why do you want to make non-financial DS uh relevant um so the reason we want to make non-financial DS relevant is because if we want web 3 as a whole to have real world impact we need to go beyond defi or go beyond Financial narratives like if you look at how like I don't know Defcon itself is organized as a whole Defcon isn't really a d Defcon is a community that involves lots of volunteers involveed lots of people to organize because so the and money was involved but it wasn't the the core use case like we are moving money to communicate something um and so yeah the even if we want in the Asian context we words like trust this idea of trust or trustless is very foreign um yeah and I'm sure you you have more to say about trust and trustless as well yeah I mean we also had this conversation in Dow Asia Summit right um and then we were talking like oh maybe it's more like a bridge to access Global funding rather than the building block of like our communities um yeah but one thing I was thinking about and actually this was the question I wanted to answer for Korea Korean DS was the level of sovereignty like for example we don't have lone wolves like individual sovereignty but it will be more like a country level sovereignty maybe that's what I felt when I was uh thinking about Taiwanese Styles like a nation state level we do want sovereignty um due to intricate geopolitical situations and stuff right and for Japanese style what I felt was like oh they have this cuz Japan has like strong Rich culture of like local local Municipal uh Regional Community so that level of sovereignty exists they they have the great Global IP they make nfts and then raise Global funding and then use it to be the Sovereign Municipal community so it will make sense in like different levels of sovereignty I think we we've got um if there's nothing to add to that we've got um yeah onboarding flow best practices into groups um I think I can take this so actually I also like participate in the Civic TCH community in town which is G zero and although it's more of a web to maybe group and because I also do some research into how to unboard more people into the community that has like over 200 projects inside and I think it's really relevant for people to come into like um although it's for a web two group but because um goo often held hackathons and offline Gatherings we found that actually people can on board more and engage more with the societ with the community when they are in those events in person and I think also one thing that web three communities can focus on is how to um make all the information not just transparent but also readable and efficient for people to make maybe take a 5 to 10 minutes and they can understand what I can do in this St and what's this D is doing because we often find that there are just so many things happening in DS and people cannot really find what they want and in a result they just go away and maybe they'll never turn back or they'll turn back in a later time so with I I think that people should um gather the information and more make it more readable and understandable to New Commerce will be a very good way to um welcome them to the community emphasizing that sort of human level of of contact and coordination um a couple more questions there you guys if you want to if you see anything you want to take I'm I'm sure the how to establish my D probably there's probably many resources I think like around here in Defcon as well uh towards that yeah um Financial we see legal recognition uh we see yeah how to be legally recognized to transact to limit P potential personal liability is very legal question yeah um so like last week I think Abu Dhabi has a new like law about recognizing DS um yeah in Asia I feel it's still a new conversation um globally as well this conversation is still evolving like what's the point of how if you're going to create uh incorporate in a legal jurisdiction like what's the point of a doubt then because you're it's just a wrapper around your community so yeah we're still figuring out but it might involve more like collaboration between different legal jurisdictions and one little thing to add so actually the QR code that I shared just earlier about the Tai St research not in this report but the one we did last year we covered quite thoroughly about the legal um legal positions doubts that might happen and what other International organizations or different governments work with this in the report so if you are interested maybe you can take a look cool and I think with that it's time uh please join me in thanking our three panelists Ivon Jen and Joel for that wonderful [Music] sharing and they'll be around I'm sure please come find them ask your questions for those who want to learn more about D those who want to fund more research into Dows uh I'm sure come come find these guys and enjoy the rest of your day thank you thank you all right thank you so much again to our panelist it was such an insightful discussion about different uh Dows across Asia and we'd like to invite you back here at around 1:30 in the meantime please enjoy your lunch have a good day