Görli, Sepolia, Holešky | Afri Schoedon (March 2023)

everyone um and I spend a lot of time thinking about public testing infrastructure and today uh I want to give an update on public infrastructure and specifically what's what is being changed very recently and what's going to change the future potentially so um I don't know how deep I should go is 20 minutes but I want to touch um what what is success why do we have chestnuts and I want to quickly jump over the two existing testments currently let's see Polio I want to talk about dishes and where you're coming from and how we can mitigate it [Music] going forwards yeah I mean does anyone not know what a tester is foreign [Music] and um we are working in a very specific field to engineering where we work with centralized networks so we have software that is equally distributed around across the machines and this creates a network of software and protesters you know owner only need to test this singular instance of engineering on the sustainable node or machine but you also need to test how they work together right that's what we call a testament yeah um there are so many different types of test Nets thank you I will dive into rules using test Nets and what they are used for later but um in general there are two groups that uh use testness and that other application developers that want to get your questions into your network and and then there are the protocol developers that basically Builders right um in most cases they use their own Frameworks to simulate the network to create Shadow forms of existing networks or even you have your own I don't know if you ever smartphones application you probably just deploy it to like a local test environment today however I want to talk about public Justice and a big test message because a massive testable infrastructure that's required to coordinate with other people requiring to test their stick and maybe even integrate his first step this room has two customers currently they are Guardians who has not heard about the various uh Diwali is not only a partner but it's also it's interesting there's this tradition to name assumes as Northwest stations throughout the space as well offices but also close to the factory currency and people where regardless that was ideated in 2018 by a team that wanted to solve a very specific problem there were two different testnets before early very specifically the cover test of terrain features that we're running different Technologies so there was no way to test applications across these two networks which was Back in the Day in 2018 the issue but I am this is not what I want to talk to you about today but um this is basically just a background story of why Gurley was ideated and created and in the end we launched of 2019 today it's the rain soon testing it actually gave a talk with Defcon about post-notch test results last year and if you're a little bit dirty about business or industry of ethereum I gave complete follow me so where I also might like the background so I just references here and skip over that uh girl it was in a very unique position so initially we just wanted to um solve an issue that erased between Corbin and green beam can be somewhat uh addressing this but what's interesting about the girly launches that is completely coincided with the weekend development cycle um standard of the option that is today's thing that since the merge is basically running the consensus quite soon the before 2018 there was no such concept of having a standalone location or condensation in addition to the former execution they have shown on ethereum so there were a lot of ideas of having hybrid proof mistake you know and so on but what happened in 2018 is that there was actually gathering in Berlin Italian who proposed this concept today so when we ideated early as we tested we were not really aware that this new concept is going to arise and that this could actually create huge requirements on Teslas so actually we just do that oh we just launched this test net for application developers primarily oh and launches with the performance supply of what could possibly over on a 150 million it was the bonuses of the same office there was one team in 2018 that was very uh far ahead of time [Music] so they were smart enough to reach out to us and to ask for a huge education so they could it's their own Beacon training implementation upon Gurley and also but so um yeah built the entire weekend testing State on top of really this however created a hugely marked for buildings and as I said there were only 150 people earnings and most of them after years in case of testing the constraints are locked up in a difficult tracks there are some instances where we created deposit contracts so it would we literally could destroy the test if given after some testing but most of the electrical contracts didn't have the speeches so a lot of this initial supply of only 150 million uh buildings there are that deposits and at some point activates and also activating your validated so as I said there was no way to unlock this token so where the downloads spiral or Supply and um what was I going to say um there was no way to unlock this token but there's also no way to increase the supply easily so if you want to increase so Supply you wouldn't even though it's just a tester you would need to compensate because plans or teams and there was always a solution on switching client teams or some client developers and say cheers thank you so much development and testing and maintenance costs associated with serving a specific protocol AdWords that only targeted testless just let that there is actually no easy way or no sheet braid to increase the supply so this is this seemingly tiny problem of total supply of course that we had a public test Methodist having to use today it's the main assume test match but it's so hard to get this test Network because if you want to deploy something you need to solve it right and then after proof of stake they also compete with people upon forsake um the big staking pools that need a lot of ether to test their state employee software and all these professional stake as a confidence just validators or any data orchestration they are all on girly and they are fighting for 600 million years um and the goalies Supply us distributed at this point and what happened to us a couple of years ago some people on Twitter thought oh what about having an incentivized Testament and suddenly uh people with big banks on really working on Twitter besides or it's just paid people to buy up because so you see which created a massive problem because you want these testers to be pleased because if you want to test something before you deployed on the main energy you don't want to paste before because because so many things in the program right so it should be always free this is like kind of this [Music] foreign exchanges before I um address this I want to briefly take a look at the Sequoia tester um 2021 that was producing a group of work adjustment I was really happy that I could teach us in my mind my mind because that's what I like doing um and the idea was initially to have just actually launchers they wanted to have New Testament freshness in other tests they would be good the merge was probably one of the most dedicated software upgrades eyewitness so they may just wanted to have an additional test set and um there was this yeah I hope you feel better so girly was very beautiful story that has a lot of applications deployed to it already um it had also a huge validates I think a couple of hundred thousands and um instead of launching another group of sectors the community said but but wait we also need a more stable test for application developers and more stable in this case um means yes prone to I don't know finality issues uh downtime whatever you come up with if you want to test your application you don't want to stall uh you always want to show be sure that your transactions can confirmed because otherwise your entire development life cycle is super annoying so there was this idea to actually make this proof of work uh just not to improve an authority [Music] a bit and also what's good about it because we were seeing uh the issues of early English regardless of the supply of Tesla tokens um created a Napoleon way that um it allows us to have a near infinite Supply so just let's just briefly have a look at the difference so girly was enlarged as a complete proof of authority Network absolutely this is a fairly permission consensus and this has a sole purpose for giving you the stability guarantee or this network we just run you don't have to care about liners validators or whatnot but we'll just see the building seconds and you as a tester you just deploy application right interestingly by emerging it was brought a decent shameful stay and proof of state by nature is somewhat permissionless as long as it affects through tokens and but as I said we have the supply issues versus viscosity of tokens um and now interesting if you look at the Sequoia that was proof of work which is proof of work by nature is commission yes [Music] and since we use some modified people change the permission so technically remove this network it has new infinite Supply it's more like this modified contract and this should be the network applications that use going forward because it basically addresses forward delicious that's at least four applications foreign so this comes back to the point I initially mentioned there were different Target audiences that required testing or this complex testing environment um obviously the core development clients that Implement and serum protocol organ um they need a more complex environment to test this thing specifically to catching Educators and also making sure that the support only works also in reality applications [Music] um and yes recently uh added to this makes the we have actually the status multiplying complex systems in production of and these groups have different requirements towards adjustment obviously you cannot as your skating setup on a position because you don't have access to consensus that's a player point of the work permission um whereas you have the application development you don't care about consensus as long as it validates your transactions so having a proper stake or the permissionless network mainly caters political engineers and the speakers having a more stable uh permission Network application Developers there is in addition for stakers because there's a supply issue or like especially testing larger setups validators and production is such a big topic that there are also parallel initiatives to have a camera test net my office working on it recommendation so what's happening going forward foreign [Music] at least two or three testers and that created a huge effort in both in the application layer but also all the infrastructure that requires the simultaneous they all depend on a fairly stable uh stick and all of them was the announcement of the duplication of green tea for example or Ramstein they started all moving to running and I don't know who's to blame but in a decentralized community um there is no one who's centrally communicating no don't just go to use separia but um this is what should have happened in uh last year um so what's happening now is that all these all these applications they migrated suspect you know I don't know if you've ever used students well they are all of you know and now we are telling them okay because it's just a security so we shut it down they are kind of annoyed to put in my ID about the situation where you actually don't know how long this infrastructure is available for you right and the problem here is that these systems is no matter this is some kind of context today that it takes his teams actually a couple of months complete we conduct such a migration from one system to another so there are the stage to say whatever just give us testing Service as an infinite runtime and um this is their point of view the only other uh Engineers test map that if we decide to reset it every month you shouldn't care about it right so there are like kind of two ends of the spectrum and um I had this idea to arrange a meeting in the middle and make a proposal and they call it the predictable the serial attachment life cycle so we always have one permission and one commission does a big adjustment in parallel it was predicted or predictable or like scheduled launch date and the Fairly predictable life cycle of [Music] four years of Lifetime plus additionally adding maybe one year of application orders or long-term support if necessary and then if you always have to launch a new replacement testing and focus so that everyone knows this Chestnut is this exact lifespan for this expected lifespan and um if I have to choose to mine right now or next year or two years I always know which tester to use and just fill out excellent infrastructure to prepare and this is how it looks like [Music] one slide specifically is a test necessary we are here in the middle you can see that we are going through the space where Roblox denied already with me is almost there I think it's like it will be shut down next Quantum which I'm not mistaken it's no longer receiving product updates so most of the applications are no longer on Rainbow um God is already duplicated so it has specificated uh notice but it's not you know it's um potentially not surviving the year sent what predictable is still testified life cycle could look like I have specified this young magicians for what this could look like is you're just taking starting a simple here counting four years in the future or five years in the future and Define the end date and then looking at girly that is going to be shut down this year we need to come up with a replacement test cut in this case [Music] we picked up a proposal by the track Community last year that wants to launch of which test match um there was some back and forth with the name and uh proposal to just abbreviated to open and this is the next tester to be launched from ethereum to replace good evening okay um this is actually a slide for my depth control it's basically use a too long General lesson version of my talk if you have to pick a test net right now you have to you can run your validators from early you cannot run them on zip folio if you want to deploy an application please go to sympholia because really is a very uh short remaining uh lifetime left hand um also good luck getting a Visa receive antibody data is of course but there are an assistance like a mistaker maybe you can just use data sport to get a deposit also you don't have materials is scheduled to read test early because it's already announced in long-term support um coordination happens on GitHub if you working with a team that would require a Genesis allocation of tokens again this is any datas or whatever your idea is for launching a more advanced adjustments adjustments is showing the conversation on GitHub slash these clients especially and um we are actually having a related button how can we meet on a launch day September 15 which is also like is a merch today um it's a decentralized infrastructure conference please take a look at it as a protocol.burden we plan to have a small side event that is addressing the test net launch if you are into testers like I am um if not take a look at the website because they're also other interesting protocol and infrastructure topics there's lots of open course participation so if you want to talk about these topics um feel free we'll offer extension and now I'm accepting questions [Music] so while he's missing the supply is such a big topic um so why is the supply yeah so if you don't plan your test match it will be remaining to assumed testing then you probably don't expect it to be used that much um so uh it's a complete failure on our ends to what we're creating against us right so you have only one chance to create a supply during its lifetime or you create a mechanism as we have one in Sequoia where you can use a trick to increase Supply or inflate support right but for girl which was launched on four years ago there is no easy way even though it sounds such a trivial problem and there's no easy Supply so the supply is an issue at this point when a developer who wants to employ an application has no access to Tesla tokens easily because that's a place into this field of speculation where some investors sort of poses might be the next I don't know big thing after ethereum because they reacted on social media platform and they basically pay people to write what to train sources so different normal developer wants to uh have to open the Fosters empty or it's it's down because it's very limited or whatnot that's just it wasn't a really big problem for the last two years and that's the reason s why do you need to why do you need to deprecate and that's not to make me once instead of this um the question was why do I need to depreciate instead of upgrade but yeah like why do you need to shut them down and make new ones instead of just kidding forward and make changes accordingly enough to this sites uh yeah so there are two hours if you don't duplicate it or discourage people to use it then just pain we are having right now that we just grow and the other question was basically why we're not upgraded was because fire teams don't want to maintain a protocol upgrade specifically for a testified case only person named the dining room certification and code might be cheap but execution and testing and the maintenance in long term will be very expensive because always a specifically system so they kind of things always say we just throw it away or start over and I mean that's okay this is how is your working group structure Dimension that you had took with big projects like this one how do you know what should be the next test that like how do you have consensus here with this distance thank you for the question uh you would like to answer because it's a mix of telegram Discord from um it is we just really think about it I mean most of it starts with discussions uh it starts from just setting up specifications and proposal is going to call everyone records in most cases so in this case I learned through all my product support and press proposed to whatever predictable slap cycle to duplicate into launching replacement tester and then it goes on you know and you have difficult discussions about what image then there is a telegram group of micro layer tools that coordinate on which Tesco to use and it is what do you call it a group it's more or less a very December hi so uh you mentioned that there is a lot of stabilization on the my question is what's the current price so it's depending on the exchange but I think there are depending on the courtesy right I could easily put it to zero no it's not so easy but um thanks um you mentioned that with two test Nets one for one Commissioners for permission then one would be more for the protocol testing available for the app layer um so isn't it better than to launch more frequently so there's more overlap like right now your md1 test and I can start in the other more or less at the same time um I would say if the life cycle is four years but you're only interested in every second one of these test Nets because you're an app developer then maybe having a two-year overlap within everyone's age you know which one to go for me predictively launching one every year because every second year you've got a new uh you know Apple assessment and they're overlapping so you never have this oh there's one ending do we still test now or lay off four months and wait for the next one yeah that's an interesting question and there are a lot of nuances to this answer but it breaks down to the price to the containing of the interest rate so first of all you cannot easily duplicate a special information um you can make it well I don't know but um I think in practice you are right because I believe they will run you know what and I proposed here just for the sake of giving people but um for the sake of a proposal I would you always have to a balance the interest of different stakeholders and plant developer or even someone like informal runs even maximum infrastructure they will and um I would say yeah it's I mean yeah I was in finance the this infrastructure basically just if you want your developers to run use your services today okay just answer the question yeah as I lay around if you say oh and through right so I'm just saying uh you know I I don't support this is funny because [Music] it's the point of assessment is to test an application so for developers want to know if the test net runs well and have developers want to know if they're apparent well why separated into two things and I'll keep it on the same thing because this is the closest we can get to the real world there are different different expectations the client developer one suggest that it looks exactly as main as was exactly no difference like not a single buyer coach of different because this thing is huge difference where they always want to have something that looks exactly the same on purpose accidentally it's just not very likely but it happened in the past and that's why we have this animation tests that have much better stability but obviously it does not present you from uh deploying applications but yeah that's why we should have all those options if there are plans in the audience they would always tell you they actually don't want applications so as you see there are a lot of different interests important forces all right I guess that's this thank you in mind [Music]