Kickstarting impact funding with hypercerts | Devcon SEA

[Music] hi welcome everyone I'm excited to introduce uh today bitb us AKA Ken who will give a workshop on how to Kickstart impact funding with hypers certs and I'm excited that you guys are here to learn what we have built and how to use it and um just to share a little bit of from the history of hypers certs it it started really as a research project at protoc collapse where we were interested in how do we really build better funding mechanisms for all the amazing things that people in the world do but are not rewarded and recognized for appropriately and out of that research we started the hypet project and right at the beginning we were like actually we just like need to build it and try it out and then Ken and some others came along and we're the first people actually building the first prototype and um Ken uh is still working on this uh which is amazing he has been um basically the cor contributor to all of the stuff that we have built um that's why I'm very excited for this workshop and um Ken take it away thank you hul uh does it work can you hear me okay great um well thanks everybody for being here I'm uh Ken or bit beers as hul introduced me um I'm going to be hosting the workshop today we're going to be for a little more than an hour what I'm going to do is that we're going to run over hypers certs and what is the hypers stch basically what have we done over the last summer so to give you the tools that you need um and then we're going to really start in the workshop part and for the workshop part we uh want to help you define how you want to use hypers certs look at your project and look at your project life cycle and then get you started with our template repository so you can basically Define your own little context for uh using hypers certs maybe to be uh to begin who in this room is familiar with hypers CER I see doubts I think I've pitched with you many times but we'll get there um so it's have half so what I'll just do I'll slowly just go through like hey what's the idea what is the mental model how do we do this if you have questions there will be a few natural baking points if you have urgent question feel free to share and then we'll move to the workshop stage I might move um let's see so what's what's the problem that we're trying to solve for with hypers certs hypers certs um um no sorry wrong direction so we have contributors in our ecosystem and our contributors uh invest time and resources and impact for work these can be many different things uh I think the the most familiar for most of us is working on open source software but it can be empowering local communities it can be environmental activities social events coordination stewardship research it can many different things but we um I think for everybody who's native in rep 3 space we have a huge grants ecosystem allocating large amounts of money to many many projects for the work that they're doing and um I think with the current explosion of Grants programs and matching funds we also should start thinking about accountability why is this important because if an impact funer is looking for opportunities to allocate grants of funds depending on the amount that they want to give they want to be more certain about what is the effectiveness of that amount right so let's say you want to give somebody Kickstarter Grant Kickstarter Grant will probably won't be 5 million it'll be a lower amount but you also have like more flexible criteria to allocate those funds and vice versa if you have something with a very high amount you want to be more strict and this is a common notion that we're discovering in our space is that we working on not only on grants and allocation but also on accountability and accountability also flows into reputation and can fund into new funding streams so this impact funer is looking for opportunities to fund impact for work on open source software altruism personal involvement Rising ties Raaz all boats they can have many many reasons why they want to do this but we know we have a world where basically people with bags or organizations with bags are allocating funds to people that would need us to do their work so we know that we have impact creators we know impact funders if we just put them in the same Marketplace everybody's happy right no because usually that's not how it works so what we don't what we don't know at this moment is the funding really effective and the funding effective can be in multiple Parts in the life cycle of a project right so if we look proactively and you give a grant for somebody to get started you're expecting them to make a promise and to deliver on that outcome and the outcome can be different because if we all knew the outcome we don't wouldn't think anymore um but you do want to have this accountability mechanism what this gives you after after the first cycle is that you have somebody that made a promise you funded him and you know they delivered so this is first step into reputation now when we do this retroactively and we look at what they delivered um we can use tools like the r retroactive public goods funding or Easy r pgf or whatever people are doing uh now or what op or other projects are doing we can give them the tools um to look back and to evaluate what does hypers certs add to this is that we close this feedback loop by returning a fraction of a Hyer to the people that to the donors and to the funders what this adds is that um the funders also build up like reputation on what they built and funded to facilitate all of this complexity we need an ecosystem that surfaces impact for work to funders in a transparent and verifiable Manner and for this we use hypers certs um hypers certs are onchain impact certificates that declare who did what and when sometimes even where um and our goal is to have an open protocol that people can use within their own context to establish an interconnected impact funding Network so what are hypers really how do we do this hypers are onchain claims on impact for work so uh hypers anybody can make one right so I can say what I did last week is planning x amount of plants or trees and I did this with these people these claims need to be evaluated on uniqueness and truthiness because anybody can make the same claim so I can make the same claim as somebody at that table or this table and we still don't know what is true right so imagine we have two identical hypers certs we now introduce an evaluator that says oh this is the real one this introduces an uh Russian do problem because how can you trust the evaluators but that's a different aspect what we need at least is some flow that verifies these claims and why we do this again is because the funders are more likely to fund positively evaluated impact hypers search redu a friction to funding impact for work because we gather all the data that we have in our Network about ownership funding flows work that has been done who has done this where has this happened and we provide and also the sales of these impactful work containers and we provide unified data set via our API and graph of impact for work contributors and evaluations again idea is that it flows into our whole ecosystem and we build like the uniform data layer um how do we do this within hyps or how is this facilitated by the hypers foundation is that we can I take this like can I does it work can you still hear me okay awesome because this is way chill than standing still um so what we have is two things we have the hypers Ser protocol and we have the hyps marketplace the protocol is basically the mining so it's a 1155 that we modify to work with some aspects that we need for hypers certs which is for instance that they're semi fungible so every hypers cert instance is a unique nft but they can make part of the same family or the same collection and this is like the tweaks that we made uh on the flip side this also means that we have some features that openc doesn't support so this is also why we use our own Marketplace and with our Marketplace we can leverage these features like the S fungibility which means that you can create a hypers cert of your work that has a certain Supply and you can make the supply liquid and people that buy it can merge these little hyps together or they can split them for donation purposes we'll get there anyway you can do many cool things with hypers certs next we provide the tools so the tools that we provide are AC case API and graph um yeah and a template repository and at the in the workshop we'll start working with this template repository it's uh for us also something new so what I also need from you is a lot of feedback like does it work what is the first thing you want to do but we'll get there then there's like a Tipping Point in responsibility so the foundation takes care of this and then what we expect to do with other groups is focus on the use cases application integration right we don't have the knowledge or the expertise to support everybody in their respective domains or to tell them what they should do but what we need is the people in their respective domains which is probably many of you we need them to um collaborate with us tell us what are important metrics how do you want to structure your data what is your life cycle of your project and then how can we integrate with hypers certs so somewhere here we need to work together um but I don't have the clicker yes okay cool so how does it work this is a big picture um I'm going to disect this picture over the next few slides we're going to have a look at the contributors that we already mentioned the impact that they create the hypers seert as represented work the evaluators and the funders what I'm going to do is I take a little component I tell you why we do this and I tell you how we do this and then at the end we should have the whole picture together again if it's if it clicks yes okay so remember hypar onchain claims on impact for work so we have a contract which is the hyper. soul uh this is one example but we're op moving to fcoin or an ARB base I'm forgetting one C and their respective test Nets so impact creators rep representing by represented represent the contributors create work so this can be anything so the the the beaten horse here the same example is like rep through rep Beach cleanup or it's planning trees but they do something right this something is declared in the hypers cert and that is done by minting with our contract what do you actually do when you Mint one you mint a claim the claim knows the Creator we know the data that you're claiming we know the supply and the transfer restrictions we'll dive into Supply and transfer restrictions a little bit later what's important to remember is that transfer restrictions enable you to disable secondary Market activities then we take all the data we put it in Json and we store it on ipfs and then we Index this again to make it easily available for you but basically everything is on ipfs or on chain the claims need to be evaluated on their uniqueness and truthiness and for this um we leverage EAS EAS is very generalizable right it's a registry of schemas and it's registry of data that matches those schemas which if you remember the point about like working together that means that we don't need to Define what your information is the only thing that we need you to do is to connect the information that you can store on EAS by referencing a hypers cert by saying this evaluation points to this hypers cert on this chain right and then we can always we can figure it out we can map the data we can put everything in the front and everybody happy um so the impact is observed by the evaluators which produce an impact evaluation which points to the hypers and again how we do this is we create evaluation schema that references a hypers cert and then we create ad station based on that schema so we defined three fields that we need you to provide which is the chain ID the contract address and the token ID and um all other fields for example this is one of the evaluation schemas in our current application are um defined in the rest of the schema the idea is that we know the schemas that are supported with hypers certs We Gather all the ad stations from that and then in our same graph you can read all the ad stations are relevant for a specific hypers cert then the funders are more likely to fund positiv positively evaluated impact and for this we build our own Marketplace or actually we didn't build our own we forked looks rare and then we took our a lot of components that we don't need and we added strategies that we do need this uh Marketplace allows you to buy sell bid do do do the normal things that you expect from Marketplace but then specifically with hypers functionality um the theory is that the funders signal the impact evaluation by the evaluators they see one is true or one is more true or this is really done by bid backers and this wasn't done by bid backers and that helps them Define a juristic on what do we want to fund and how do we do this the marketplace like I said is just what you expect from Marketplace you define your strategy you define your order parameters you say for this hypers cert what is the price what I what I expect when I would sell 10 50 or 100% of it and we do St Stables w e e uh the the basic common uh tokens so back to the bigger picture the creators create the work stored in Imp in hypers cert this work whether it's Pro proactive retroactive it will happen at one point and at one point there will be impact assuming things go good there's a evalu way that evaluations are produced evaluated evaluations are shared with the funders and the funders actually buy these hypers or fraction of the hypers to fund the impact for work and in the ideal world what we see is a flywheel where groups deliver their work it gets positive evaluated it gets funded and it can boost up into the next one as as this cycle repeats these groups build up reputation but also funders build up reputation so you can even think about mechanisms where um funders are viewed as high signal entities because they've been there at the beginning when for instance gitcoin started they funded it and now they're like these are the big brains um click yeah okay so back to where our responsibility kind of ends or where we switch is everything I just showed you is up until the application layer right we don't do there's no integration here and the use cases are very generalized and this is where we'll uh work together how do we provide this in tooling conceptually we have our SDK that allows you to Mint we have our SDK with eses allows you to create evaluations you can basically do everything with EAS in and of itself and then we have a Marketplace SDK um it's now nice and modular um not sure if we'll integrate it or that we will leave it like this but here you at least have a nice mapping of the tooling and what they are responsible for yes the hypet app um so over the summer we did a big refactor we um we learned that as we were working with different groups together that every time when we work together there was a spe very specific need for somebody's own custom data so if we would work with funding the comment in in uh taian they have very specific event data if we work with gitcoin they have their rounds data if we work with um voice stack they have certain data about their evaluations anyway I think you get the pattern so um what we actually did is we took a few months to um refactor our infrastructure so it's really easy to establish these patterns with other people instead of having a single app you can still Min the hypers cert so that's how works that's great um we updated the designs you can now uh explore search and filter um based also on evaluations and where they are we allow you to evaluate your hypers cert we provide a very basic attestation schema for uh trusted evaluators which is basically people that we know and we work with at the moment because we need to grow into this evaluation ecosystem so this one simp simply says this hypers cert I acknowledge the name description URL Creator and owner I acknowledge the work and time frame I acknowledge the contributors uh and I acknowledge that for instance this has to do with fun The Commons in Bangkok the idea is so start boot it of course then uh next you can use our Marketplace so you can take one of these hyps if you own a fraction create an order for example 100 usdc for the total Supply and then there's a time box as well and under Advance there's way more but it it'll break your brain so this is for most people this is enough for now and lastly we have hyper boards so as a very good example of what you can do on top of our stack are these sponges boards because technically every block here is basically represent representation of ownership so what we created is a collection of hypers certs related to funding the comments in Berlin for all the work that people have been doing and depending on what you value you can donate towards a certain aspect right so we did the same with zalu that was for ticketing there was for hosting Foods media whatever and then you like oh I really love the ticketing experience I'm going to fund that but you're still funding the same big thing right so what we allow here is that we put funders and contributors on the same stage because you can see all the work has been done and you can see who has funded it we'll work with hypers certs during the workshop and I hope then it uh it will click then oh yeah well the app so what's happening in our ecosystem what are a few examples of groups that we are working with the forch uh thech was yesterday morning on stage with nidi at stage one I think maybe you've seen it they are building a platform to fund to facilitate outcome based funding of Journal J istic impact in India I know this is very specific but what they actually do is they create impact reports on journalistic work they create they create evaluations they assign numeric values to these so you can Loosely compare Apple and oranges and they Prov and they use our Marketplace for fundraising so this basically looks like Kickstarter card right where this progress bar is all the funds that they have raised and you see there they already started and I think what they're doing is great so they're using a full stack they have a very uh specific use case they are embedded in the journalistic in the journalistic ecosystem in India and they are now gradually uh growing this collection of impact reports and allowing people to fund them next uh this is a this is a small hack uh we we actually did at fun in coms we've been talking with gain forest for a year about actually doing this and we were in the same room and we just did it um so so gain forest makes biodiversity data of the global South easily available they aggregate the data and they provide like a a nice front end to scroll through time and you can inspect if somebody says oh this is where we plant the trees you can actually see if in that time frame the trees has been planted right so this is really cool and they generate a lot of data what we can do is containerize it work and we can put it on the marketplace what they can do with a data on the marketplace is actually fund the civilians that or the citizens that create this data for them the integration that we did that we added a link or basically we added a geojson file to our hypers metadata so again the custom data in a c certain context and we generate this little iframe so this iframe is rendered based on the metadata that we have available it Maps a little polygon based on the G Json data and now you can scroll through time to see if well the work that people have been claiming has actually been happening so imagine like this project had to do with uh mangroves or in Philippines you can just see a report and you can add the visual information there as well for clarity this is not enforced this is just part of the data set so we allow you to use this data if it is available uh eoser that's actually hulka maybe you want to pick it up yeah I just uh just jump in for a second because like these are kind of the the things where we are excited about not just building kind of a new like funding Silo and like one platform where like now impact can be funded but actually really thinking about this as a funding Network where we have different use cases from journalism in India to um impact um in the ecological space so there's like a variety of impact domains but then also in One impact domain for example in ecological um impact fact there are multiple platforms that already exist and what we want to provide is that you can actually integrate hyperset into the existing um platforms that's why it was not just like the the one line in the stack was not just like new applications but also Integrations so and uh this is for example all the work that that gain Force already did um they have done so much on like the evaluation side of ecological impact and now they can just build on top of the hypers stack to really build up um the the idea of uh also connecting funding streams to the evaluations and specifically in the ecological impact space um we work with my Earth to then extend this to the the concept of eoser and um this is kind of the effort to bring it to like multiple Platforms in the ecological impact space and um make sure that we can collaborate Beyond single platform and if you want to like know more about this um so this is kind of like the conceptual stage of the exploration stage um if you want to be in the loop um sign up uh for updates on eos.com um and just to use this as as an example this is how we think that we can build New Impact funding networks together um that we build these modular systems and then if we build something for the uh for ealerts then it potentially can also useful in the space for funding open source software and we can share the tooling and Advance kind of the the tooling and the the data observability um that we that we need to make efficient and good funding decisions cool thanks um and after heerz we are also working with fcoin Falin is doing a r pgf round uh at the end I think now maybe even they doing the votes um and hypers will be distributed among the funders based on the work that they funded um and that was a really fun hack that also been done I already alluded to the things that we did with suzu and this is like the next iteration on top of that so uh Shu who was part of the residency as well he did a he did a really cool hack where he created hypers Sears for all the pop-up cities that have been in changai during October and then similar to the flow with voice deck you can basically buy a fraction of a hypers to fund these pop-up cities uh in the ideal World these pop-up cities as they are becoming archipelago they share a fund and then they share all these this revenue streams into a sh shared fund and then we can do the 13 to 20th pup City next year um okay so looking back at the stack that we provide we are on many chains and we are also open to being on more chains uh if you want us to be there just uh let us know and we can have a talk second we provide the tools so we give you the API for writing we give you the SDK for utility methods with on chain stuff because uploading to ipfs and minting a chain all the things is just a hassle um and then we provide the graph which which would make it easy for you to basically read all the data that we have from sales orders evaluations attestations uh you name it and then we have the set of applications that we use okay so this was I think yes I think this was the the whole speedrun of the hyp equos system and what we do and how we do this are there any questions it's great oh yeah hi you mentioned the marketplace I'm wondering if people that care about things do they actually go to a Marketplace to find what to find to fund or maybe they probably already know or they reach the projects that they want that they care about uh yeah so I would I would agree that you probably don't want a specific Marketplace for everybody who imagines a protocol what we want to what we want to do is want to enable you to use the things that we enable with hyps and which and that also means that we want you to tap into what web3 enables you to do which are permission L trans permission list transactions right and that means that if cport doesn't support hypers certs we need to do this um that doesn't mean that we need to funnel everybody into our marketplace right because it's a protocol and we give you to SDK and you can do whatever you want maybe to add add to your question um so I think there is also the opportunity to um because with that we did this already with the hyper boards um so there's a widget that you can just plug in your widget onto every website wherever kind of the people are that um you you serve so your own website um we also thinking that can can you kind of put it for example your GitHub uh uh repository kind of an easy link to recognize those who did the work and to provide the funding for your project and the similar way um how can we also create a simple widget to bring kind of the hypers experience to wherever your audience already is so um can we um put this just in a farter frame can we put this on social media where it's easy for you to engage the audience that you think are your funders and this will probably be then a little bit different for each um impact domain um where you really think like okay this is this is where I reach my audience to tell them these are the cool contributors to my projects and also this is how you can become a contributor yourself so I I agree that like this this idea of we are just providing another platform where like people need to like be routed to is challenging and also like just a challenging goto Market strategy so and that's why let's build kind of this this network and bring the network and the the items that we have to where the people where your audience already is thanks for the question is this working yeah now it is um my question is about um kind of like the project and granty experience which is often they are overwhelmed by the amount of information they have to collect and put it in various different sources and platforms and it is a big uh kind of admin task right uh and so I'm curious if you guys have explored any kind of automations or Integrations where you're able to sort of autom automatically gather relevant data and basically automatically mint uh these hypers certs um for for people that's part one of my question um and I've lost the second part of my question but maybe we can start there okay so Step One is the sorry yeah so step one will be the the automation um talked about it never really built it um so open source software is a really good example right what we're now doing with um over Source OB server and then maybe at to gr P doing a bunch of a bunch of inference my personal reservation with automation at this moment is because we still haven't figured out what we want to measure we still haven't figure out what we find valuable we still haven't figure out what is the right thing that we want to fund for um so I can automate a on of things but I know not sure if that will be yeah I guess it's up for the community or the use case to figure out oh we actually want to bring this specific metric or whatever it is um yeah I I would add to that so one is like I think that's a direction that we want to develop into um and so like let's see how much can we um measure things automatically and um help projects um and I think this is kind of the also kind of a shift in how we think about public goods projects because we should not think about public goods projects coming to fund us and asking for money and that let that be charity if you think about the ecological space or open source software let's really acknowledge that the projects building are actually the heroes of the story and we should be fighting for them to get the money that they need to build further and not get bugged down in like admin task and I think um you mentioned open source Observer already can we actually make the impact of different projects visible without the projects doing anything and can we then take that data and help them to bring this this impact data to the funders um so that we at the same time help the funders to disting distinguish between different projects but also like reduce the burden on the projects and the same is true for ecological data so how can we actually engage with I mean it's like all the dmrv stuff that is now coming up how can we better um measure what the impact what the Regeneration of different land projects what the impact was and let's put the projects at the center and basically say how can we help you and then how can we provide the connection to the funders and give the funders also the experience of actually what you are funding has a real world impact but let the people who do the impact actually like work on that impact and make it as easy as possible I think that needs to be also like our mindset and that's why I I appreciate the the question because it's go goes exactly in that that direction we shouldn't ask projects about like more data and more impact and more milestones and like fill out this and fill out that we need to be basically have the the idea of service provider to these the to these projects first and being a service provider for them means also basically um Gathering the data that the funders need so that's kind of like the the priority list here okay perfect yeah that that uh clarifies it and yeah we should chat hello uh thank you for the presentation everything is uh it has been great um I want wanted to ask you a more like practical question like let's say we have an impact case or something like that and what would be the timeline to fill in you know the whole process so so when you have an impact project and you want to use hypers Sears to raise funds for that um I think the easiest right now is if you have completed work where you can say you can actually show the the outcomes of that um and then potentially also do you have like a third party evaluator who is trusted in the wider audience and you have already like some funders in mind that you to actually share this with if you have all of that set up already then I think it's like let's let's go and like mint a hypers for your work um let's figure out what is the right template for the evaluation because like that probably is different for that and then that takes a little bit of time to implement like a different evaluation um and then we can either um have it through the hyp .org that Marketplace or if you want to have like a custom experience experience then we can build on top of the template app um if we build it on the template app probably also a little bit of of setup time but um this is exactly what we have been working on that that is much easier to just like provide your own kind of interface for um where you can sell um kind of the the hyperset yourself and um then I think it's like a couple of weeks um should be um what what we should be able to to do now um and then depending on like how much customization we want to do um that's that's I think the only only question um otherwise like I mean just creating a hyperset and offering it for sale um we can be done in an hour thanks sorry uh any other questions otherwise I'll uh would like to continue on the workshop part great cool thanks um so for the workshop we decided that we want to mix a few steps so what we what we've learned is often when we start minting hypers servs with people I think like a mint is a solv problem right we've been doing mints for 10 years every anybody can in the hypur but the problem like with old data is if you feed the the wrong data into the system you'll probably also get the wrong data out right um no swearing um so what we're first going to do is we're going to do an exercise and in this exercise I want to ask you to um come up with your come forward with your project so like hey this is a use case that we imagine for hyps and what we'll um what we'll do is we'll run over the life cycle of your project or of your work and then see does everything make sense you know are we talking about the correct contributors are we talking about the Fundy you expecting to fund uh how do you expect evaluation to happen what are your steps to funding and um is there a feedback mechanism in place for these impact claims again a claim in itself is useless we want it to be evaluated and then when we have that done we'll do step two which is actually determining the hypur content so who are the contributors what are the names what are the addresses what is the did they give consent um the description of the work additional resources additional properties and data availability none of none of these last once or yeah are a given or necessary per se but if you want to if you want to work with your own unique context it's important to consider this as well so this is where we're going to start um what I would like to know right now is who's in this room to also participate in the workshop that's one one two three four five and of those five people W has a project that they want to work on just the same amount that's great um so we can do two things we can get you as a group together and we do one project or we maybe take uh one or two of these projects and we map everything out is anybody has a preference like I really want to talk about my use case talk about your yeah maybe we can like go around when we have like five ideas to like here the five ideas um like how would you use hypers Sears in like basically two sentences um that would be amazing also for us to see where your brains went after this presentation yeah you up for that cool microphone is coming um cool Hello um so bit of context I'm one of the founders of reial and we have a network of like local node communities that are implementing regenerative Finance Solutions um maybe that's even just hosting events but also supporting ecological actions and things like that uh we have about 30 to 40 of these nodes across the globe and we need to start to identify ways we can aggregate that impact data um which is obviously quite a challenging task across a decentralized network of local nodes uh and so we're looking at hypers certs as one of The Primitives uh that could build on top of uh we're also looking at EAS and this other thing called the common impact data standard which might be the underlying ontology we use uh to categorize the different forms of data and then maybe a hypers gets minted on top for specific claims and sharing of um attribution of ownership of those uh impact claims um so that's for reaal and then I'm also one of the co-leads of cell public goods where we run various Grant programs uh and so we may also look at how hypers certs could could feed into those Grant programs as well yeah okay just to summarize it's uh one is sell public goods program and the other is refi and their impact Network the and Salo yes okay yeah cool thanks yeah uh hello again um so our work is uh we are working with um fishing communities uh around the world and we are collecting plastic from the sea and we turn into new products so we have now around 5,000 uh fishermen mainly in the Mediterranean Sea probably one of the largest plastic cleanup projects in uh in Europe um we're currently working we're part of the next billion uh Team of ethereum so we are working with them uh we are using a closed loop blockchain system now and we are making open source on optimism so I would like to see how H could help us also build on top of that and potentially you know uh help us scale up impact further yeah is it aliena I think okay cool thank you maybe I want to turn people into like a hypers Sher and then have people buy the people and then they earn a percentage of their income or something like that so you want to rebuild Society no okay no okay thanks I mean to comment on on this uh briefly there is something where when we think about how we fund projects we can also think about how do we fund somebody where we think they will do amazing work no matter what they project they what the project is that they are actually working on right now now and in science um we have like in medical research we have block funding block funding from hhmi um they give like researchers that they believe in um just like I think like 7 million for five years and say like do whatever you do um you have been you have proven to be good um you have you are intrinsically motivated and we trust you that you do something great with this and um this trust-based funding is something that we also need to balance with like all the impact measurement that we want to do um because there's like something very interesting in the dynamic of like when you actually trust somebody somebody but then you also measure the impact to see where that went so I mean it was like stated uh kind of loosely but I think there's like a really interesting trust-based funding mechanisms based on how we trust people to do amazing work hello I'm Julian I am a part of the small Collective we call the the web 3 hackers Collective um we are mainly focusing on uh Integrations mentoring and education and we have developed a um a dow framework that we call gov and we basically want to put it put it in the hands of uh like regular users and um and so I guess maybe the members of these Dows would be the the evaluators something like that so yeah okay thanks um wait maybe to explain a little bit more so you you have a DA you have the members of Da yeah so so we developed this this D Dow framework so we use the governor contract in combination with with nfts and then we just basically use it for our sales we only four people in this Dow so it's a very small Dow but um moves fast and then we so we want to help organizations groups of people uh to deploy their own uh Dow using that framew work that we built that's called gov yeah and then the onboarding so the the work that your D will be doing is actually onboarding of other people into their into similar D following your pattern yes and I thought it would it would bring uh a lot of value to to to smartly use hyperset uh so um yeah yeah and I think like something interesting to observe is that these tools are actually now really interesting to use or useful where we have for example many local communities we have many fishermen um and Fisher women do you say that like this yes so um to and then you have like down members and like we actually want to leverage the information at the edges and use that to organize funding streams right and like this is like something where hypers particularly is a useful tool to do that so like I love all the the example examples of of ideas uh that are here in the audience do we have another one okay cool we have four great ideas thanks do you have do you have any preference I like all of them yeah um let's see so what I what I know is yeah I mean maybe you go with the uh with the plastic recycling uh Fisheries uh so I think because like it's it's nice because it's so tangible and then we can we can easily understand it we can easily understand why this is impactful where is good and then um we can basically also if if you understand that and then you can like transport that to to the Dow to um open source software um so I I I like that idea as as a very concrete example yes um what I think would help in this case is that the people that want to uh collaborate in this because I don't I cannot draw as you know right and what really helps to map out this life cycle is that we actually draw so I like to whiteboard but we have this biger whiteboards white boards yes but then I also need you to come a little bit closer yeah well can we can we bring a white board to this table you you can do you want many whiteboards actually on camera should put the here okay with a mic yeah see the team close might be so just gather gather around here and also like Devan was also like a a fellow the EF so I think uh would be nice to like continue this this tradition of like having strong hyperset projects in the in the fellowship so let's let's see what we can make happen it's video Don't wor so does this help yeah okay uh generally we would like to do is an exercise it just uh start with like a conversation about hey what do you do and then we just map out like what are the players and then we'll look at our data set and go like okay so this is I think how they are connected in in the system and this is how we would set up your uh data set so what I remember is you do plastic soup in the Mediterranean can we talk a little bit about how this uh how the soup flows yeah how the project flows yes so the project is like um actually very simple so the Fisher they collect plastic by accident in their Nets they used to throw it back to the Sea so we started training them to bring it back to the land so the first the first step is they bring the plastic okay and then it's on land H then we connect it with recycling companies so we we find containers and we we hire people from the local communities to put the plastic there and do some basic sorting do you just give it to the recycling companies yes because it it depends of the country like the plastic collected from the sea uh is very degraded like sometimes 30 40 years in the sea um so it has algae muscles oysters this kind stuff so they really need to wash it before that um and then the next step is uh these guys they make pellets a percentage of that mhm um 50% for Simplicity something like that like these little things that you press into something yeah yeah and then uh we find companies that can actually uh make it the final product so upcyclers so they make like Furniture kayaks this kind of stuff upcycle [Music] into products products okay so you collect a plastic is brought to land you donate to recycle companies they create these plastic pallets that they then sell uh and this is something that we are working on some pellets they sell some others uh uh we sell to the up cyclers soell and resell and then maybe I'm assuming here but then the funds from the sale go back yeah percentage goes back there and I'm saying actually all of this goes back there but it's not enough to finance the operations um so the main Revenue stream that we are having currently is B2B so maybe that's something that's going to be of help in the project and the unique value that we are able to provide is is that we are able to create like large scale cleanups at a very low cost actually the lowest cost currently in Europe and the Mediterranean to remove plastic from the sea yeah uh USB low cost low cost cleanup right yeah uh and uh we provide also third party certification So currently we use like um audits from companies like de and stuff uh and we have like this blockchain closed Circle and we want to now open it up on optimism okay so and these audits are done by external parties yeah they audit that you actually do what you're yeah yeah or some of our partners they have their own Auditors and they they bring them as well yeah so we're fine with that okay after that so you do the Audits and then what was the last part of the sentence sorry um is that we are currently transitioning also to optimism to have open source data all the time as an additional part of our certification process so you're rolling out to op um yeah is is this full life cycle going on a p or which uh more or less something that maybe we can do additionally is a little step before collecting plastic is uh because um a big part of our Revenue we give it back to the fishing communities that collect this kind of plastic mhm um So currently we pay them in strong currencies like in euros and dollars mhm um but potential that could be also with stable coin yeah so the payouts and Fiat because we are working with countries like um like Egypt for example where their currency is constantly devaluated so their stable currency is very much appreciated from the whole Community yeah okay okay okay cool um so we know the life cycle we uh know that you also offer this as a lowc cost cleanup um you've been audited so you have evaluations you are working with OP so you're doing onchain stuff already at least let's call stuff yeah um and you you do payments in Fiat yeah right so we know the work that you're doing we know the evaluation flow and we know that you have a funding flow yeah right so so one one thing I think there are like multiple actions here so and uh the question is like do we want to focus on one of the actions so for example creating hypers certs first for the people who actually collect the plastic or do we want to create episodes along the full chain um to have like the full picture of who actually contributes to the ultimate impact um and I probably it's like a staging problem or a question because like in in the end it would be great to have it have all of that um but maybe in the beginning um you can just like um people collect plastic from the Mediterranean and that is kind of the a very concrete action that is also comparable with each other so that that could be the start um but curious about what you think yeah sure that could be the start like that would be the easier way to to to start something uh and the main kpi for example that we use with our Partnerships is how many kilos or pounds of plastic we collected from the sea so that's our basic API but a very important additional aspect we put in our project and it's actually may currently our main cost is the waste management infrastructure we need to build to recycle that because it's one thing to collect it from the sea but if I just drop it in the landfill or just drop it in the port it's going to end up there again so we we are investing in the infrastructure to make sure that it doesn't go with the SE again uh but that could be an additional Point down the line but for us it's important to connect that stuff yeah and I mean there's like something where whatever way you have a bit biggest bottleneck and where this is most impactful maybe we can start with that or with the most like the easiest one so it's like it's like two different choices um to be made um but yeah for for this Workshop um I think they they they Lina one is like the collection for yeah I think so but it does sound like um one of the most impactful places where additional grant funding could be raised could be to say you minted a hypers cert for the recycling companies to almost subsidize their development in new technologies that can then process and recycle more Plastics and then you're really upgrading the system as opposed to just like you say just um collecting it but the system's not getting any better at the actual recycling that we want to do and that's where you might be able to then attract other Grant funders to come in and uh and you can sell the lovely story here but then you're actually also bringing in more funding to upgrade the whole system to stop it uh it's quite regenerative yes and I think there a really cool story when you have like those um 5,000 people collecting it when you make that really visible and then you say okay what actually happens with this afterwards so like in that way like these two things like play with each other really well so I I agree that this that's live feedback of the more the recycling companies actually do recycle they then that that means the hypers and you you know as a fun then you're directly funding the recycling company who's actually work and in there's a lot less data there too a lot less data at the recycling company level versus at the collection level cuz like there could be hundreds of people collecting but maybe two recycling companies yeah we have like eight or this are you ano yeah okay nice to meet you yeah maybe um for the sake of time because I think we did a good exploration right we we have an understand I think we have a shared understanding about your landscape and what you do um we'll focus on the plastic collection over a certain amount of period of time in a certain part of AJ andc um and then we need to know what goes in and what comes out right so we're just going to do it on the second whiteboard yeah um so for the hypers cert we have like a description rtion W what when and in your case it's also very clear where which is great cool um uh then we have description then we know that there are um evaluations and then we know that you already have funders [Music] um since we want to go for like a a clean solution what I generally recommend is to make like if you first hypers sert one retroactive is way easier than proactive right because it's already difficult to prove things that they happen so imagine if you want to prove a promise um so it's often easy to retroactively and then you can also grow into this I would time box it so let's say like everything that we ever done but let's say since your start uh till now or maybe like per quarter right I'm imagining that you have like a continuous stream so you would say like uh when you would say like you have like Q q1 2024 for example right where how would you document uh where do you have GPS data we have GPS data currently on The Closer blockchain app that we are working on uh it's like 62 boards over four countries so we have all the DAT amazing uh what becomes a little a little bit more complex I think uh a little bit more um what is mainly the plastic collected mhm um so in our case that's like containers so like Imaging a big container you see in the boats and stuff like that so full of plastic so yeah plastic contain collected yeah that's it and the the other one is who right yeah so this is a Fishers or fisherman Association who can say Fishers in some places they're organized some others they are just going YOLO are you coordinating them yeah so you Govern of no sorry you you delegate what needs to happen what I'm sorry so you delegate what needs to happen and you coordinate with these fishermen and they do actually do the work yes but uh they fish plastic by accident so that was like the very Simplicity of our project they go out for fish and by accident they collect plastic which they use to throw back in the sea so we created all of this infrastructure to enable them to bring it back to the land and make sure it is recycled so that's why we are so cost low cost uh because it's already happening and we're just replicating all over where there are fishing communities can I can I take a liberty here and say that you know which fishermen brought you plastic over the last Cube every day yeah every day you every boat every day yeah yeah in every so these fishermen are the contributors to the impact that you're creating yes so the the wo are the fishermen and the uh Creator I honestly I've seen your name many times I don't know how to spell it Ela I Know It's All Greek uh it's yeah E and A yeah L Wow E e i a wow that's impressive in how do you know how to spell that yeah yeah in Greek means together with the Fishers it's together the fishes really yeah yeah that's that's what it means in Greek and rolls of St nicely so that's great yeah yeah and they they they enjoy the work the world it helped build some trust for them yeah okay so but uh this means that you are the impact creator that means that uh in our general notion that you make uh the hypers because you are facilitating on behalf of this group I'm taking again a liberty here I'm assuming that most of your fishermen don't want to deal with web 3 don't want to don't want to deal with web 3 they probably just want this cycle to work and for them to keep doing this right so that means that you're basically taking responsibility for the for the work that you creating representing these fishermen yeah this is fine um my recommendation is always find some way you are not the only person in control of the funds that you raise because if there are 50 fish and you're the one holding the wallet I mean the debates the Bates are easy the Bates are easy to imagine we have with each and every one of them uh that says how we're going to pay them and when based on our funding and we have also Financial audit uh from you know uh independent Tax Consultants to check that that's so that's amazing is I think in Parts you want some things you can put in your description and maybe uh where I would leave the audit I wouldn't personally know right now because audit can be either uh an EV it can be an evaluation I think it's actually an evaluation right because it's not what you bring to the market this is actually verifies that what you're claiming here yeah right yeah so this is the audit and then you have the description that says okay these These are the promises the promises that we've made with the fisherman can they be public yeah we can attach the contract okay so the so this is additional data right so this is external uh or maybe even certain properties let's leave that a little bit in the little bit in the middle but this is like your agreements and then this is the validation so now you you're going to me a hypers cert that says this is what we did in q1 this is what agreement have made with the fishermen these are all the fishermen these this is how we will pay them this is how we will compensate them this is the work that they've done done and um after you've created that hypers cert you can actually you can self attach this audit right I assume the AUD is signed verified or there some PDF that's signed so it doesn't really matter who presents it it can be you uh yeah question for you is is it interesting for you to change the way you pay the Fisher well that depends on the country for example so in gree that they are not organized um we pay them one by one uh through bank transfers so there's a lot of complication there but it's working uh in Spain and Italy that they are organized in groups we just uh pay the group uh or a representative a big representative that has like 10 groups or something like that um and in Egypt is the same in Egypt they didn't have a group so we made them a group and we pay the representative of the group and then they they they transfer the funds do do you think it would be like you know would it make your transaction easier um would it be an unlock for like doing more if uh the hypers would basically track okay who did deliver the the plastic and now we sold it and automatically the flows flow then because I mean that that is what we can do and that that could make your business operations easier um and I mean the setup probably would be more complex once but then it just like flows automatically well if it doesn't take more time because the challenge we have is like uh because we're working B2B these guys pay like every semester or every year uh and the fishermen want to get paid uh you know at least monthly you know I mean they should get like here ideally um what we could do is they deliver the the plastic and then if if that is recorded that recording of that plastic would just like automatically release the funds to the fishermen and that if the experience of the fisherman is I gave plastic there and then I just like checked in with like a simple simple tool and I see the funds coming into like my bank account and like yes it's on crypto rail but it came to my bank account um I think that is like a great experience where they are just like telling their friends and they join in I I think that would be worth investigating then the challenge we'll have is and that's why we have some fishermen that asks us to pay them annually is that sometimes this is a side activity right they go for fish so maybe they say they get like depending on where they fish from1 to I don't know $200 a month so it's a nice addition but it's not like the main thing so sometimes they tell us to pay them once a year so they see more money in the bank account and they take it more seriously you know they see like $2,000 there or something so if they get like 50 cents a day maybe maybe will have the counter effect or something like that so this is what I'm I'm I'm thinking of you check in with some Behavior economists to give us some that's that's my background actually wonderful it's hard it's hard because this is what I'm trying to explain to them like some people like they are just bored into to getting like the donations and stuff every month and they're like yeah either never or once a year uh but the majority vast majority they get monthly they they prefer it monthly because this is when they get paid also with the fees and everything's come to the funders yeah it does sound you have that this conversation about two different layers right because if if you if you are the creator of this impact then you are going into the market and saying this is everything that we've done and um please fund right and if you have a work stream where you're basically taking in this plastic and doing like a payment that's a that's part of the work that you have done over this period um that doesn't mean that like this this part why what hul proposed cannot be automated I think it's really cool if we if it really cool if this can flow into this and then you get an audit on this as well and that would be amazing but let's keep it simple let's start with simple thing um so you have funders right how how is this Loop closed currently right how is the how are the how does this happen um so let's say the funders what they do um let's say we work with companies like I don't know like alian let's say that's one of our Global Partners uh they want to finance like the removal of 100 tons of plastic from the sea and to make sure that this plastic gets recycled so the main kpi is that and also they have another kpi which is to involve like I don't know a thousand fishermen into that project so these are are the two main kpis and then they have the option that they can buy some of the products as well do they do this be do they fund beforehand or after you ship deliver uh they finance uh as per uh round so they put some money up front so can start the project up front and then when we provide an interim report they provide another round of funding and then when we finish the project and we give the last report they provide the last round of part so usually our partners pay three times year that's actually really cool for this case except and it's cool that you do this of course but it's really cool for this case because you actually have prospective funding and retroactive funding on the same workstream yeah yeah in a way yeah yeah so that would mean that if you um remember that the hyp has a certain Supply right it has a supply of let's say 100 million or no let's say that's what we that's what we prefer um you could even work with Alliance and say like you buy the first half up front and you buy the second half afterwards um yeah and you already have them right and what what is the benefit for this for aliance it's a few things right um I know you already have this audit Trail so it's not like they'll get like more secure but they are this is like very transparent and instant and actually what they are doing is also building up a reputation for all the work that they've done because I um can imagine that for them it's also really Ben beneficial if they can show the work that they funded and actually also showing that it's actually been validated as well yeah yeah and um question additional to that is like one one way that we are thinking about like why people actually want to do this and like also why some funders want to do that is that if you create it as such a transparent system it's also easy for others to join in so if you're a funer and you are you care about the project you care about the impact and you fund it and you fund it transparently um you also signal to other funders like this is important and also I believe that this works so other funders could easily join in and then different funders could even like like fund the same um the same impact because this is like why hyps are fractionalized so that like two different funders can fund like each 50% of the same same impact um and then we could potentially grow the the funders landscape into like a a diverse set and like all of that is then like very transparent of like who funded what aspect and no fun and it's it's your like you're not telling the same story to everyone because everyone actually has a unique piece of the whole impact and knows how much exactly and this is what we do now we have around 30 of these kind of companies uh so each one is financing a specific BS of impact and the way we verify it is through the audits currently uh to make sure that you know we give specific part and in some area some ports let's say like some communities they like to jump in with another partner so they make a matching fund uh but um we do that already but through this kind of footage cool it would be great to have it on chain yeah oh sorry I keep forgetting this uh this hand okay so we we know would want to R were we know how you're going to get it evaluated we know you're going to um how you going to fund this Do You Feel Like Anything Is Missing here from your life cycle uh on the plastic collected uh we have like a feedback mechanism to make sure that we know that on the spot and don't wait the audit and this is weight slips so I told you like we put it in these big containers M so when the container is full and they pick it up we we weight it on a certified facility so we know that this container was like 10 tons or something so we know that that month was like 10 tons um and to have a daily metric for the fishermen uh we use certified digital scales on the port to make sure that we know what every day they bring in so we double check then these metrics uh do funders either now in the future will care about other things because you said they care about plastic collected and Fisher involved but might they also care about the location for example like that a Greek company wants to fund stuff in Greece and um are there other examples like that because let's suppose you actually scale around the globe and then a funer actually like really cares about the location is like you you're noding already but like is is there also others things like that where you actually want to enable funders to be more specific about what they are funding yeah um so funders they they have usually preferred the geography so that can be a country can be like a community sometimes they finance like areas where they have strong financial uh activities or something so we have this coffee company in Greece that they sell this kind of coffee in this area they wanted to work there uh but we also and and that like had created challenges for us to scale up because for example in the Mediterranean and globally like the main impact is in Egypt because of the Nile so the Nile is responsible for half of the plastic in the Mediterranean Sea and 15% of the whole plastic in the world uh in the world ocean yeah it's it's it's huge um but nobody wanted to work there uh because there's not so much going on uh so we were able to identify some compan that they don't care about the location and they just care about the impact so let's say I don't know I want you to remove 100 tons of plastic or 200 tons of plastic and I don't care from where you do that uh and usually these guys what they do is they they sell a product made without plastic or maybe not like a table or something and they say for each table we sell we remove like 10 kilos extra uh so this is how we're able to expand in other geographies yeah um okay I don't think it's relevant now it's for this exercise but just geography yeah it's unfortun L important yeah so started with a simple oh we we H get plastic soup but many layers uh to your organization I want to be cautious of time because we have seven more minutes um and we didn't get around to doing anything with uh code or an app or minting or those kind of things and I think that's fine because I think this was a very good conversation and this was like it's really great to see what you done with the project um what I want to get to maybe is quickly show you the um if you want to I can quickly show you the template application the repository and where to get started um and then we can always follow up on these conversations uh afterwards is that fine if anybody anybody wants to perfect great uh if I may put one more in point like currently the model we have is B2B and the reason we you know transitioning out to dl2 is because we want to open it up to a b2c world because big companies can pay you know audits or investigate jist but want to feel like every individual can contribute either as a financer or as a collector uh and that's something that we could also match funds with so I don't know if if you know this guy like Mr be like uh last year he created like this huge challenge for the Seas so they gave away like $30 million something like that and they they spread it all over the seven C and everything so they gave us budget for the Mediterranean so we're their partners for the Mediterranean based on exactly that protocol that you mentioned over there and we also had other B2B partners that were able to match that and the impact there was huge you know like because we're able to go to Egypt and start a project there that is the main problem Point um so as as a point that that's just going to yeah say that thanks thanks for the example um so I think it's like these are the the the things that are possible then with um putting the hypet framework underneath all the cool stuff that you are doing already and hopefully like then adding kind of the value to how easy it is for others to join how easy it is for your your transaction your business um operations and then also encourage like others to do similar things and like scale it up into like like adjacent impact and um New Impact areas so I think that's that's really the the potential here yeah cool right let's let's see some code if I sell internet I've been having issues oh microphone sorry I've got to R thank you so much and yeah yeah thanks mon see you later want to sing bir okay uh I thought we G to sing a birthday song No Okay um so this is the template application it's basically what we did because we're open source is we uh forked voice deack that built on top of our stack and then we took everything from voice deack out again and then we made it like very generalized a little bit wide lably so this is a this is a fork buil this is a fork of a fork built on our St OD Fork somewhere um it's really simple and it's completely uh gives a different experience than what our app does our app shows you the collections minting evaluations voting these kind of things the goal for this repository is to keep it light and you add what you need and I'll show you like one very specific thing on why that is valuable is um we have hyper boards and Hyper boards are collection and sometimes it doesn't work on Local Host nah okay never mind we have hyper boards which are spons boards they are collection of hypers certs and because you define a collection of hypers certs that means that we can basically Define the context that you want the whole app to have right because it doesn't see anything else except for your collection which H live demo in this case are these two of my hypers certs one of these hypers certs that I uh created I was playing around with geojson like we told you before which means that these specific hypers certs that are part of my specific collection have GPS data and this shows you um like I showed during presentation right there's a geojson and there's a polygon and you can run through this over time the goal that we do with this repository is that has a very simple mint form and it's rendering has a very simple Min form and um every segment is basically a compon component so it makes it really easy to add a component with the data that you need we it's basically using Z schema so you can add your custom properties and we will validate the data that you're putting in there and that's all we know about your hypers Sears right so you have your metadata with your properties now when we when this app detects your metadata with your properties it says oh there's a geojson and this is why I render this little card but you can do this with geojson you could do this with forecaster data you could do this with um op Source server data you name it right and would be really cool for us is to see some examples of what you need or get a request about what you need for your use case and we can help you Manifest this right because this temp repository is the start for us as a as a more generalized platform and your feedback is very valuable here so lastly what we have SE template is this repository and I want to invite you all to uh basically install it or since it's a template or whatever you can make a fork install it run it and start playing around with it um it has all the things that you need so you can create Min data it can read it has a specific Handler there's an example for a component and if you really want to dive into this um the components are there for using the marketplace right but if you want to play around with using the marketplace please do this on testet um that's all I have to share right now being cautious of the time I want to thank everybody who was here I want to thank you for the good conversation about um Ela Elan oh God damn got Ela yeah uh next time next time I'll have it yeah I would I would like to jump in on the on the template for a second because why we think this is important and cool and like enabled more use cases is um if you think for example for gain Forest to is an evaluator for multiple projects if they just want to have one place where all of the hyps are shown and people they can direct potential funders to the hyperset that they evaluated and have a custom experience for that they can easily spin that that up if you have um multiple pop-up cities and you want to create just one platform where all the pop-up cities can raise funds retroactively for their awesome experiences that they created this is like a really easy way to do that and at the same time all the hyperset that are created here are actually also at the same time on hypers sets. org as well so that's like really the it's just an interface to the decentralized database of hypers certs which then also poti enabled the next widget of you actually cannot only have that on this dedicated platform but you also can have um the hypers then in a widget on your own website where you from your popup City you raise funds on your platform there's one platform for all popup cities stuff and then there's like yes also the general um hyperset marketplace where you can find impact from open source uh software to ecological things to popup cities um but you we might want to start in specific um domains with a customizable template to do that um so that's that are kind of the the different ways why we have built this and then um if you want to go more customizable then you have like the SDK um that you can like use to integrate it into your existing platforms or to build completely a new funding platform um that is kind of it it is automatically interoperable with all the other hypers stuff that happens and that is the the exciting thing um that what we can do with web 3 technology now that we couldn't do before is really thinking about this distributed database where no platform actually has like really platform power um because like it's just an interface to the data that is underlying it and then anybody can build a tool like hyperboard on top of that that does cool cool stuff so on the on the hypet stack um there's also like other evaluator tools that we didn't build um that can be compatible with this so it's like it's really like a flexible text stack um that should be customized