Debunking Myths about Building out of SEA

stage we've got har Camaro uh ly Lou Matthew tan and Tian Lee let's welcome them on [Music] stage all right good afternoon everybody uh can I get a show of hands how many people here are not from Southeast Asia all right and the rest of you are all uh locals thanks for the support um so we have uh TN Matthew and ly um before we start talking about building out of sest Asia I think it's important for people to understand your stories uh for this space so if you mind giving a quick introduction about how you got into this space and more importantly where you were in your life like geographically career-wise like where were you in that phase of life so we can start with Tien yeah hi I'm Tien um CEO co-founder of Pendle I got started in crypto um as a hobbyist back in 2014 when I was doing a research for a professor on fintech um at that point in time I think like fintech was still very heavily tied to sorry the entire crypto sector was very heavily tied to fintech um and yeah just looking through um various business models and ideas and I thought like Bitcoin was was um very interesting um was involved in the space as Volunteers in couple of projects but I became professionally involved in crypto more seriously uh when I joined kyber in 2017 so we yeah ly here former boss um but it was it was a fantastic take opportunity because it opened a lot of doors um I got to see the evolution of Def crypto as a whole at the front row seat um and I and I would attribute everything that I know about crypto today to the experience it all started from uh the kyber days um yeah I was I've I've always been in Southeast Asia travel a lot but um primarily been based out of Southeast Asia my entire life and maybe I'll skip Matt just because uh TI mentioned uh Lori uh like um for like how was your uh introduction to the space and then how did you introduce uh TN as well um I was a PhD student at the National University of Singapore um very early in my PhD career I was given the opportunity to explore whatever that I want to do with my life uh so that was the best part about n us um yeah so I stumble on a couple of like articles about Bitcoin and um I was like okay this sounds interesting um I decided like to basically you know dive a little bit further into it um and I think a few months after that like the white people of etherum was introduced and everyone was like talking about uh ethereum everywhere right and basically it opens a lot more opportunities for people to do stuff on top of ethereum cuz I think back then like I think Bitcoin was I think at the stage in which like anything that you want to do is going to cost like you know a lot of disccussion and it's like it's going to take like years in order to do anything and when etherum was introduced it's like a fresh new energy into the cryptocurrency space um so basically my whole uh uh PhD thesis was all about like scaling public blockchain like ethereum making smart contract smarter uh more secure right um so we I actually wrote uh one of the first open source uh uh smart contract security scanner um it was around the time of the Dow hack in 2015 um uh got the opportunity to talk and meet uh a lot of RM researcher in the early days including Vita lake and a few other people um 2017 um I think yeah I think 2016 2017 because like we keep like go uh there were only a few meetups like in Singapore back then right about crypto and blockchain and that's how I got to know like a lot of other people like Tenn and a few other OG people in the space 2017 when I was about to get out of my PhD um I decided to work on kyber and yeah um yeah that was how uh it started yeah and M so I see a lot of uh friendly faces um so for those who don't know uh probably unlike what uh T so I've been I had already been in the tax base for close to uh 15 years plus uh in the software industry you know with uh and I know again know being there for 15 years previously was a long time uh I guess I was getting uh Restless uh and I like the both both of them here I think I heard of Bitcoin in uh 2011 and uh and being U Asian Malaysian like no this was a it was like a money printing machine right so you could on your turn on the PC and you earn $2 and $3 back then uh so that got me uh really intrigued and it uh it felt like uh uh it felt like uh the internet back in 20 in uh 1995 when I was still in uni so um so yeah so just started going a little bit deeper into deeper into it uh and uh build some stuff on on bitcoin and obviously when uh eum came along it was very uh intriguing you could build this like programmable smart contracts on the blockchain uh and yeah and then since then I think we've been really focus uh it's a core focus on on building out the uh data infrastructure making that data available for public and uh hopefully allowing users to use that data to make uh informed decisions so yeah and so you know how TN met ly uh how did Matt meet uh the other two okay oh okay uh so I think with law I didn't really meet him was more like online right yeah I'm sorry I think it was uh during the io craze and Matt wanted some allocation he like can you give me some allocation I was like okay it SC good yeah cool so not now that that he mentioning it was like 2018 2017 yeah so I saw law you know this young PhD student from n us right uh you know had this brilliant idea so you know uh in in 201 17 was just much more easier I think I ped him online and said hey L you know uh that's chance right so that chat led to one thing another and I think we've been able to build a very long friendship and relationship since then uh We've help each other in different parts of our journey when when times were tough uh so I do appreciate that friendship with uh ly and and partnership uh and that's kind of when I met uh TN right so I know this TN was this still young but younger back then very aggressive uh V guy going out then stuff like that and I think when we also kind of invested in some of the early projects that uh the T ended so it's a quite a interrelated relationship yeah and I think we didn't really cover that much but uh ly how did you find D end how did you like hire him to join the KY team I think it was a very natural kind of decision right I mean back then uh I was about to uh I mean I I knew that I could start something but I didn't really like finalize what it was and stuff right and uh I was a PhD researcher uh technical person um I obviously obviously needed some help right um so I met T via I think either like referal like some introduction or like some Meetup cuz like Singapore back there and I think there were probably like 20 30 people people that are interested in crypto and you keep like seeing the same people in in the meetups right um so I think uh and also like we are I think at the same age and we'll probably like you know uh get along well with each other so I just invited him to join the team and who uh yeah it it was uh great to have him to support us uh this might be a bias question CU I helped to organize a Meetup but you guys have mentioned meetups a couple times uh how much have like uh meetups or local communities helped you guys to to form a team or to like help build your team um maybe etn I think in the early days it definitely helped um I I I'm a strong believer in having that human touch like like just um meet in person because it it it's you you can tell a lot more about an individual when you are physically present uh in the same venue right versus uh online or like digital connections um I would say back in the days there is um there was the the difference between the meetups back then and now um is that I feel that back then the attitude towards like ethereum and the entire sector as a whole was more innocuous like everyone's in like most people were in because they wanted to learn about the tech now it's different I think the attitude is what's the next meme coin right um it can't help with that that's that's the reality um yeah but I think back in the days to get to know people you you go to Meetup you find similar uh if you you you come across people with similar interests a lot more easily these days it's harder to tell um so yeah we probably have to resort to other other avenues to like streamline or filter out like how to identify individuals um who have similar interests um yeah but I I guess like that's just a function of time and also the growth of the sector and uh any thoughts from men and ly about um utilizing communities local communities and meetups to help you form a team or build your team I think it's um yeah I mean I think we we actually like hire several good people from local meetups right I mean it's um I mean it's import basically like it's a lot better it's it's a good like recruitment kind of like channel for us um you meet people there you see how they interact they like you ask them like the the question that uh basically like usually like when you meet people you you you you don't tell them hey we are looking for this position right but you see like how they do how they interact with other people uh what what the characters is and after that you are like okay this might be a good fit for the team and you want to bring them on board and and see how they um you know I think it's a lot better than just like proactively like pain people yeah yeah so we support e right uh we I probably wouldn't be in stage here uh if it wasn't because of uh e that's where I kind of met har right uh yeah I think uh so the the key for the successful meetups that we've seen like local grassroot meetups is it definitely helps if there is an industry sponsor or supporter so I think that's what we kind of try to do but at the same time trying to keep it as nonprofit as possible so I think that's the the key point and just providing a space where if uh people coming back or even people traveling through the region wants to stop by and they just want to share so I think having that meet up uh uh basically allows you to create a a a readily available Community uh that that is able to share that part I I I think one thing that I want to add more is that like I think um I think in Southeast Asia probably like most people most Engineers they are very shy like online right I mean like you go to Twitter you probably don't see a lot of like Southeast Asian Engineers talking about like a lot of stuff like cuz like one I think English is probably not their first native language and two usually they don't they don't argue online that much right oh yeah they don't like you so so so I think the best way to know them is like to go to like you know conference or like you know local meetups in which like there are some particular topic that is of their interest and you can like pick a lot of things from their brain and you know uh I think they share a lot more yeah and uh Matt you mentioned you were 15 years as a web to founder in Malaysia um I think that's a very unique um take that you can give like what's the difference like between being a Founder in web 2 versus web 3 and specifically as someone who was in Malaysia in Southeast Asia um so so uh it's 15 years in web 2 but 10 years in web 3 so 10 years web three right uh is a long time so uh one of the things I actually realized is uh I I I have to really think hard because it's been a while and you kind of get used to the way things are done in web uh web tree um but I think this uh something that kind of reminded me about this was uh so we were at a dinner and we had a conversation with this uh person who's from uh web to and I think she she actually shared shared one point uh so she she shared that uh she's uh moving to web from Web Two into web three and she said that one of the things that she found most stock was that uh the people in web Tre generally especially with ethereum then be really friendly uh they share a lot of information uh you know like in web to if you go around and ask a lot of stuff right people kind of get a little bit hesitant a little bit cautious but if you see the ethos in B if you go around you ask questions right a lot of folks are just extremely happy to share with you to share with you what they're doing and the the TX techn so I think for that matter I I appreciate and I'm thankful for being uh being able to be part of that web tree itos you you kind of have to be reminded of that sometimes so I think that was help for me and uh for TN and lawy as well um so you both mentioned that you were researchers and you did a bunch of work in the space before you became Founders so if there's anyone in the audience or who's watching uh online like uh is that experience how helpful or necessary is the experience uh to have before you start and found your own team um Dien um just a disclaimer my research is nothing like L it's still research serious research and the hobbyist well I think um my perspective is probably different from ly I think it helps to actually like starting out a company is difficult and in order to I think one key difference between a more successful company uh from everything else is having a unique perspective about a sector that you're operating in like for example right A lot of people can be running money markets very simple straightforward product with a clear product Market fit but then there will be differences between a product like a and compound and everyone else and of course like now uh gradually we're seeing um products like Oiler Mor for um gaining traction these Founders have very deep understanding about money markets and they also are able to incorporate their unique perspective into their product that can only come when you are deep in the in in in the sector like so like put it simply right if I've not been involved in the space since my kyber days I don't think I would be able to pull out something like Pendle um that knowledge can come from research it can come from direct involvement in a team that is operating in a certain segment of Interest it can come from anywhere but really I think the more important uh component here is really deep understanding of the sector and then developing a unique perspective that can help develop a more interesting product a more differentiated one and L mention you'll have a very different perspective um I think in general over time um I think over the last like 10 years I realized that I think gra Tre is or in general like crypto is um the most rewarding industry for any academic researcher right um so it's regarding not just because of like the potential Financial return I mean a lot of like good high-profile project are run by academic fers right um but also like you know seeing being able to see like you know what you research on to be deployed to be used by everyone over the world right I think that's the most rewarding experience um so before started kber I had a few opportunities right to work on still blockchain research but like in like say industry uh big companies big payment companies in the more sorry what that they that they pay you more I mean it's not I mean they they they paid okay I mean it was Visa research right and they started like the the blockchain research back in 2017 but I was like you know if I if I work here uh it's going to take me years right in order like to see any of my research like getting deployed or getting used in practice and it's going to be like patent after patents after patents right uh so that's that's the business business model right um so and then and then I I keep seeing like you know other people launching new protocols new product right and like um I was like I could do that as well right you know it was a big inspiration So eventually I decided like to work on my own startup launch skyo and get like people to use it and over time I also encourage a lot of people like to hey if you if you want to do something you know just launch their own startup right uh like do it in crypto like forget about fintech forget about like you know other stuff I think crypto with crypto you launch for Global audience you got like a abundant of like funding and support and like you know um users right from everywhere uh it's the fastest like you know uh Journey for you to to see something from happening and on that note um southeast Asia isn't very well known for having huge like globally impacting uh tech companies uh but we have three here and um just curious like um do you know like is there some sort of secret source that you guys have had that you were able to create these U global companies out of Southeast Asia when a lot of people in a lot of other industries were unable to do that um Matt maybe um so um I so I guess that depends on your personality and the the individual itself uh for for me specifically uh generally I I think if you look at for the same fact that you mentioned right so you look at southeast Asia in in general right uh perhap with the exception of Singapore uh generally uh we are often underlooked uh know it's like you're in South Asia it's not in Silicon Valley and stuff like that so at least back back then uh maybe that's that's my uh chip on on the shoulder so that kind of motivated me to to uh to prove that we could build something out here so that was one one strong driving push over the over the last 10 years uh to to show that we could build a global products out out of South Asia uh the second Point um I guess for for us was obviously to choose uh to choose the work on something uh that obviously that we're passionate about and and something that that we had uh and I shared this before uh that we had a More Level Playing Field Level Playing Field meaning that uh so like with a lot of traditional web to apps right A lot of it hinges on the relationships that you had the uh the geographical location that you base on like if let's say really fintech and stuff being in places like New York and stuff has a lot of advantages it is a lot of frontf facing consumer apps obviously being silicon really helps a lot uh so like uh if we had done something along those lines it would be it wouldn't be on a fair footing uh so but with battery it's it's a much more fairer footing it's access to data decentralized anyone can go out you can grab it uh you can do whatever you want with it uh you know and there's there's yeah you can't control that the data is out flow so it's uh everyone can compete on on a slightly more fairer basis so I think for us that that was the the two key points k u i mean no secret Source but uh I think so Pendle like my product is the youngest of um the lot and I think I've had the fortune of looking at these two other guys building brand and having an influence in the space and to me that's inspiring because like like what met said right I think crypto as a whole is extremely accessible and the playing field is a lot more leveled compared to the other sectors so if when I was thinking about like building a product I look at met I look at ly and I thought that if they're able within southeast Asia um build something that can reach a global audience and attain Global success I can do it as well so I I I I look up to these guys um and I I think it it it helps to also dream big um just because we're from Southeast Asia it doesn't mean we're worse of I actually think there's an abundant of talents here a lot of us maybe because of different exposure we tend to think that it's better out there but I can say talents wise I mean there's a plenty right like in Malaysia and Vietnam um Singapore is small population but highly concentrated but like in Indonesia uh even in Thailand because of the population and just by the sheer fact of power of law you have like 600 million people 700 million people here you can definitely find like the top one 2% to be exceptionally talented right um so just need to reach out to these people build something great and you know given the the fact that like crypto is extremely democratizing I think we can build something great I think um cost plays an important role here right um like for startup I mean I'm not sure about others but I think from my experience I think we probably have like to try different ideas before we find the one that actually works right and throughout that Journey it's going to take like one or two years at least right and like you need to sustain the team right uh for that one or two years and I think in in Southeast Asia it's it's a lot more cost effective to do that right um like I mean you can survive in like Bangkok and probably Hanoi and K with like 5600 per month not sure about k i I haven't lived there um but yeah I mean I think you have that ability you have that like you know um I would say um your advantage compared to like other high higher developed uh market and you you get to go through like different like Cycle Products different ideas you know check them out and see whether launch it see whether it works if it works great like let's scale it let's St fun right uh if doesn't you know let's just move on to a new one and also like one more thing is like Tian mentioned the the amount of talents the amount of Engineers here is abundant like you know if you want to scale people probably next month you can get like 10 20 30 more easily um yeah so and uh staying with L so if there are any people who are not from Southeast Asia and who want to hire devs or other Talent from out of Southeast Asia um they might have heard you know it's cheap um they maybe uh some would speak good English uh they're very hungry uh in your experience uh working with Talent out of sast Asia um what would you say to these uh other builders who might be interested to uh hire people from here um start with you first working with sorry what so if I'm not from Southeast Asia and I'm looking to hire someone from here like what would be some advice or some kind of thoughts I think you just try to get people from Pand it scan or Kaiba that's the best way to uh just kidding uh so I mean that that's what happened to a lot of our former team members right they got pushed by other team from elswhere basically like say if if if like if the team is from the US and they're looking for some people in Asia some engineer in Asia usually they would look for like you know all the people that are working for existing teams in Asia right and they're like hey we we're going to pay you double and it's still half the price that we are paying in the US and we lost a lot of people to them but it's okay because like you know it's you know it's a fair market right uh if they can get a better opportunity happy for them and uh we get to work on the on the new Engineers um but anyway don't do that uh uh uh I think in general language is a big barrier uh but I feel like it's getting improved a lot lately uh all the young Engineers because they get to work on like you know uh English in the training in the college so Communication in English in writing is is okay uh speaking might need some time for them but I think probably in Malaysia it's probably it's not an issu but like in other countries like Thailand and Vietnam and even Indonesia it's probably a big barrier um other than that I think everyone is hardworking fast learner young population you have like you know a lot of talents to to recruit yeah M yeah so um first off I I I I don't think 5600 is enough survive in K uh second uh tapping off on what lawy has mentioned so so um for that same reason right uh again generally in Asia southeast Asia this are developing nations right so there's a high growth and normally uh people here actually quite hungry right so they uh they want to improve their lives I'm not seeing people outside here aren't but generally inside sou Asia is very strong Drive uh the there a strong money there strong drive also a monetary incentive in order to improve your quality of life so people really strive for it I think they they really work hard and uh they don't take things too relax uh a lot of people are just like know you got to make it so you push hard you know study hard it's very traditional right in Asia study hard you know work hard and you do get a good job and stuff like that uh and that's fairly uh what what we see at least in uh developing nations like like in uh obiously Malaysia and uh Vietnam and uh Thailand and all the the the other countries with the exception of Singapore which is obviously already very uh much more Global um yeah so um other than that uh going back to what uh like L mentioned uh yeah I know uh turnover is issue uh again I think it's also working with uh teammates that now see money is important but I think there are also other values there uh other things that you can accomplish working in a team so yes money plays a large factor I don't think it's the the the only Factor uh sometimes it's also about a journey and uh the ability to grow and probably thinking a little bit more forward know like uh what happens after 5 years and and stuff like that and there will be a bunch of other reasons that we can do it in a separate conversation K oh no nothing meaningful to add I think they covered all and I think the stereotypes generally quite accurate okay then I'm not going to let you go um but the talent within South southeast Asia uh is extremely diverse right because um Singapore Malaysia uh Vietnam Thailand uh Indonesia Philippines all very different uh people and uh you I'm quite sure that three of you hire like people from across the region um so what are your kind of learnings from handling these very diff very diverse cultures within the same team yeah I'm going to start with you CU you skipped the last one yeah can I defer to Matt okay Matt first let me go ahead and take a step of that because actually quite uh diverse culturally uh so again uh Malaysia is in the middle of everything right uh the three main different groups and uh races right uh so uh I I I I I actually think diversity is a strend uh I know it's always been said it sounds cliche but I think it is uh it is especially when it comes to again I guess what we're building right so for us some of the stuff were buildings a little bit more front facing so I think having perspective from different folks from different backgrounds and different perceptions I think helps right so uh I know you if we're building something and someone says this looks this color looks good and someone else says this color looks uh not so good so I actually found a lot of it has some sort of cultural cultural elements for for for what it is uh and somehow we able to to drive on a color that's a little bit new more neutral so that kind of works for us uh having said that other than that uh nothing critical uh you know very minor stuff uh probably like in uh so let's say like this trip we're making here with the team right so I guess know what you know what's you know what is actually our biggest challenge or not so our biggest challenge is actually figuring out where to go eat uh the reason being you know coming from different diverse backgrounds you know there like food requirements for example uh maybe it has to be uh ker or or Halal or you know or maybe it has to be no alcohol and stuff like that so actually is very trival stuff and somehow we we actually manage and we really find balance know and there are sessions where it's uh with alcohol and the sessions without alcohol and vice versa and someh it works and I think a lot of folks it's a very unique unique perspective one that I I I've grown up with and I I treasure a lot Yeah you mentioned to me earlier diversity by default so I think it's a good catch phase it is f it is um okay TI are you ready no I I really don't see like major challenges I think managing diversity is part and parcel of running a running a team um this happens regardless of where you're at and of course like southeast Asia is relatively diverse but there's also a lot of similarities in the way we um perceive things um I think yeah by and large yeah Southeast Asian are generally motivated um and having that shared trade is is helpful in trying to align team members uh everybody wants to win so you just have to do a bit of reminder and I think everyone can fall in line quite quickly L I would say if you if you want to uh I mean I think the probably the best way to do that is to probably like have a trusted leader or manager in every country and you just like deal with that person right and rely on that person to manage the team in that particular country uh I think we do that because like back then kba had people in like Vietnam Singapore and like Israel and couple of other countries because I think there are a lot of things that you don't know about the culture about how people want and what people want right and I think having someone that you can rely on and to handle all of that issues for you and make sure that everyone works well together I think is is great all right and um this question I've had from a lot of people uh actually um not sure by coincidence or by Design but uh somehow um so kyber and Pendle are very very strong companies in Defi and ether scan and coo for example are very very strong in kind of data services uh is there a reason why southeast Asia um is birthing these champions in these two specific uh spaces within the industry uh does anyone here have an answer I'll speak on behalf of uh Malaysia uh I think a lot of us don't want to end up in jail last time so we we chose the data which is much more clearer uh right now it's not too bad the regulatory landscape is there's a lot more clarity and and I know it's just you go early into the space and like like normally typical Malaysians you know we we have families and stuff like that so uh so yeah so we just want to navigate and also I think uh you know navigate in area that's considered relatively straightforward uh cuz you know there's just just different licenses and AML kyc and stuff you need to go into so uh given that it wasn't clear for us specifically uh so we choose we chose that that part so which is why you have like goingo and scan doing quite similar products with data that doesn't really touch the uh transaction flow like uh both of these guys are doing I think for me it's a a little different like I I somehow found my way to Singapore and like Singapore being a financial Hub uh in the region and also um I think one of the more important Financial hubs globally we have a lot of exposure Ure to financial products and instruments and that has of course shaped how I think about finance and it so happened that defi is one of the major narratives within crypto in the early days and it continues to be the major driver of adoption so it helps I think like from from um I think a product operator standpoint um just being physically in Singapore um the access to Capital um the knowledge in financial infrastructure definitely helps how we think about product construct now I I am Malaysian by ntion trality and um as to how like some of these defi products are can be traced to Malian Founders I I'm not sure I think I can add a little bit I think it's probably a little bit broader right um I think the reason why we see a lot of like say def defy and like data oriented products coming out service Asia is because service asan Founders are bad at selling right so we have like to build something that the product will sell for itself right so like defy product Market fit instantly from day one right data product is the same everyone use ether scan these days because it's just the right product that people want we are bad at selling a new narrative it's really hard for service to do that right I mean it's not just because we are I mean English is not our native language it's also because we don't have like big funds like A6 Z pram to Stam like1 100 million us do check on us and said this is the new narrative right in South Asia we don't have that big of the funds um so we have dep pick something that I think is product Market fit can generate Revenue get users from day one and we can just scale right from there all right so uh we have a little bit of time left um this panel is called debunking myths um building out of sea so I want to check with you guys very quickly answer uh each one of you uh whether each item is a truth or a myth uh so first item um funding uh how whether it's very difficult to get funding out of the country that you are based out of um just mentioned the country and Truth or myth Vietnam I think it's a bit hot Singapore um a lot easier yeah yeah same uh Malaysia is a little bit more challenging Singapore is easier easy same yeah um okay um infrastructure um whether it's the internet uh having highways uh having a strong like startup ecosystem uh um is it lacking or is it um actually thriving uh ly we'll just go in Cycles internet I think it's good I think internet in South Asia is actually extremely good compared to many other part of the world um startup ecosystem I think it's still growing uh it's not there yet but it's growing yeah and as a city like highways buildings I think it's okay I mean yeah so Malaysia uh no no no issues very strong infrastructure good buildings relatively in comparison good roads uh and in terms of the internet connectivity it's uh uh decent very decent so I say that's uh meet that yeah I I guess like it it really varies from City to city right so if you look at Singapore it's definitely like pretty top-notch in public infrastructure Transportation internet everything is good KL is also like pretty high up there but when it comes to Jakarta for example um it's extremely renowned for like traffic like massive traffic gam uh internet connectivity I guess it's good um but a lot of time like if you were to do a business in Jakarta a lot of time will be wasted in trying to get from one spot to the other um so I I think I um in Southeast Asia it depends on where you go okay and this one is just for TN um well lawy as well because you spend time in Singapore but Singapore cost very very high truth or myth myth I think Singapore yes in terms of published reports the cost is actually very high but the good thing about Singapore is that there's always a range so if you want to like take transportation for example establish public transport is actually extremely affordable but if you want to own a car it's going to cost a lot of money in the same way when it comes to food and daily necessity you you have like extremely affordable option with like2 $3 US dollars a day you can uh sorry a meal you can find something very um yeah it can fill your tummy but of course if you want find dining a three star restaurant will cost you $1,000 something like that right um yeah so that's that's how I think about Singapore l since you spend some time there if you just leave that alone it's very okay it's affordable right but if you need to say build a family or build a team there it's going to be very costly very costly um yeah but I think back to the previous question I think Singapore is probably the most developed like you know start Hub in terms of like ecosystem right like you have like funds you have like quality Founders you have people like visiting the country every now and then so I think it's a vibrant uh crypto startup Hub in uh in Southeast Asia I think a other countries probably don't have that that luxury that um you know that intersection of people from Over the all over the world try to stay there for a few months learn the ecosystem try to expand to South Asia or Asia in general and they they would want to set up base in Singapore um yeah all right and a couple of questions before we open it up for the audience um for people who are not from sest Asia who are considering to move here to build a team or to join the team uh any quick advice uh each point of you can give them Tien first go to Malaysia what good good Malaysia why it's uh like reliable infrastructure causes a fraction of that of Singapore and you get good access to many many parts of the world maybe I add it so team is in Malaysia the founders are in Singapore that's what we're seeing right now raise the capital in Singapore and do the work in k um I would say you need to pick a base right I mean I think there are several good base in Southeast Asia uh k um Bank and Hanoi hoim Ming Han yeah uh Singapore as well um but of course like you know if you're in Singapore you have like to you know uh know what you want to achieve from there right because the cost is High um but if you want to build a team engineering team K actually very good I I think even uh uh Vietnam actually hanim is very active Hanoi you can get great Engineers too great Engineers yeah yeah I I also want to add okay so the reason why I thought about uh Malaysia right is because I think the yeah English the the general English Proficiency in Malaysia is is quite good it was an English colony um so English is can get you yeah quite quite uh far but think engineering Talent Hanoi Vietnam of course saon yeah of course does it make sense yeah no no contest all right uh thanks for the panelist that's all my questions and uh we can open it up for audience um to ask their question thank you so much can we give a big round of applause to the panel that was awesome okay so we're into Q&A uh if you don't know how to do or participate you just need to take a snap of that QR code you scroll to the bottom of the page and there's a link saying live Q&A and yeah just click the Q&A button and you'll be able to put up some questions so let's get straight into some of the questions that are on the screen here uh the first one is do you see see that there is a bigger wave of adoption of crypto in APAC now any one of the panelists can answer or several I could I could say um there are a lot more young people trading crypto than trading stocks these days in South Asia um because I think it's just easy to understand for them it's very easy to set it up and just you know yeah I think so I mean I agree with the point um Singapore Vietnam probably Vietnam especially right um the number of number of active users on say like crypto exchanges um is up only um and I think I think it's because yeah it's just a lot more accessible and like these exchanges are putting strong efforts in trying to grow their presence and markets in in several countries in Southeast Asia um and I think like regulation is getting better in a lot of the countries like um I think as as just met like someone from SCB uh the the biggest bank here I think uh they they launch an app for you to convert your usdc to taibat and you can just spend immediately at the merchants it's crazy um in Singapore there are a lot of like crypto payment company now as well like you can just pay from like cash out your crypto in the debit card and you can just pay from the debit card I mean it's it's getting to the point that I don't even need like to uh you know use my bank for most of the transation these days yeah all right great thank you um let's move on to the next question uh are you guys hiring oh yeah so the next question you guys uh are you guys hiring wait I I thought it was the other one well apparently this one is very popular uh let me jump to the other one the cityor okay well we can just get yes or Nos and then we can move on yeah hiring uh yeah obviously we're hiring yeah okay ether scan hiring I'm sure you're looking for good talents I I recent I recently started a caliber Venture Builder as well so if you are looking for to do your own startup uh talk to me um I only do like two every year so you know you're hiring two people now we're looking actively for new fers yeah yeah okay yeah for us like in short yes we are always on the lookout for talents um positions varies thank you all right um okay so earlier part of the conversation I think New York was mentioned as a city that has like high kind of FaceTime networking maybe networking opportunities have been less in Southeast Asia and also someone in the panel mentioned that Southeast station don't like arguing online as much so um the question is what are some tips that you have um for people here based in Southeast Asia to better tap into like the global or online networking for web 3 so we don't like arguing so uh I I I would say it's actually changing so I've seen uh I don't know maybe it's a Well actually I guess like for us uh that's one of the challenges like actually going out there and and creating that awareness and arguing online uh somehow it just goes against that whole EOS uh but having said I think we've seen uh some of the newer projects so I think so we actually had this conversation just recently so this project uh I think uh Mega this founder uh brother Bing or what so I think she has a very strong presence and able to capture so that that that perception is changing a lot of the the projects coming out I able to do a good job yet and hopefully we can can learn a little bit on how that's done so I guess it's like about gaining more visibility online any other sort of networking tips maybe I can chip in as well uh so what we found with the local community in KL is uh for the young people especially just join hackathons there are a bunch of online hackathons and the price pool can be quite big uh so there's a a cohort of Builders who just join these hacker thoughts and uh use the winnings to go fund uh themselves to go to the next hackathons and from there you're introducing to People based on what you've built and not based on uh what you're talking about yeah I guess another way is to also Joy all the big project big companies in the region right and from time to time we need to send people to uh events conferences to learn what others are building right um so that's also a good opportunity for you to network and to basically like you know learn from the best okay great I think that segue is nicely to the next question which is what are the best communities in your opinion uh to connect with other Founders in each of your cities person speak damn I got to show you right is K yes for K uh and then crypto crypto SG uh for like yeah basically I think anyone who's building something independent of sectors or ecosystem would would would have uh some form of connection with uh Nick and his team whereing the a a uh it's a crypto Community B South Asia oh yeah yeah it's actually quite interesting quite vibrant uh they talk crypto over the time like even like playing soccer like some gu trading mcoin on the bench so it's like you know it's it's crazy I think even in Malaysia the paji paji community is quite strong great thank you um got a couple more questions here how is someone not to be overlooked as a deeply technical person moving to Southeast Asia from America what should they do so go you know online versus meetups or practical Tech versus networking people so someone's moving from America to Southeast Asia how can they stand out and not be overlooked be like Ross no I'm just kidding Nal person he was security right so uh no I think yeah uh meetups definitely uh when when we first started out like even in cicon valy 2015 2016 the way we uh connected with the community that uh back then there was true meetups so I think the the same still holds through here go for for meetups it's free it's informal anything else to add I yeah I mean just try to participate right try to give talk try to you know be part of some team and I think like in general we are very happy like to meet new people uh if you are in to just you know uh pingers and ask for meet ask for meeting or office tour or something happy to meet new people all the time yeah great so um let's talk about the bull market um what are you guys excited to see in the cycle of the bull market and if you'd like to add anything like on the Southeast Asian point of view like what do you think or how do you think it may impact southeast Asia so generally as well as like focus on southeast Asia I guess like um yeah with with bull market we can expect more new joiners um and with with more new joiners I think it's also reasonable to expect newer and creative use cases that might be native to Southeast Asia um after all I think from um media consumption perspective people in Southeast Asia consume media very differently from many many nationalities in other parts of the world so I would imagine that um people who are native to Southeast Asia would take opportunities perhaps a bit differently from um yeah um individuals in other nationality uh in in in other countries uh maybe things that are yeah I I wouldn't be surprised if there are things that are native to say like Vietnam that might not have a lot of adoption outside of the country uh exact use case hard to say but I think this is a reasonable expectation okay I think this like oh Matt if you want to add no okay I think this's a slightly similar question which is maybe connected which is what should people build here any ideas like the kind of adaps or even the infrastructure built in Southeast Asia I think end of the day you have to uh really like see what's your strength what's your weakness right and uh like who do you have in the team um and and and decide on the product that that that really fit to your background um we actually spend a lot of time like talking to the founders and also like try to analyze and help them realize what should be the best thing for them to build um and of course like if they get like advisor like talk to people like TN and Matt and see what they are what they think is cool to build I think it's also like a good source of like ideas um yeah so just want to add that uh choose something that you're passionate about and that you're good at go for those two and you have a very high chance of success regardless of what it is thank you okay well unfortunately we've run out of time uh thank you so much to everyone who's put up questions um maybe feel free to talk to the speakers after this um this panel's over so let's give a big round of applause to our panelists it's been awesome to have you [Music] guys all right thank you for being a great audience it's been awesome to see everyone thanks for the great questions we have more exciting content coming up next we've got another panel which is super interesting how crypto is used in Africa today here from leading Builders so please don't go anywhere um thank you so much for your participation this is my last session for this morning so thank you for being a great audience I'm Deborah and I'll see you again soon [Music] hello can you hear me yes hello my name is Mark and welcome to this uh next session in the real world ethereum so this is we've got an awesome panel group of people here to talk about how crypto is used in Africa today here from our leading Builders so remember the uh you know the drill now the QR code create some questions we'll have 10 minutes at the end for a good lot of questions so without further Ado I'll introduce the panelists so we have y Damaris David y and ysf welcome to the [Applause] [Music] stage hello Defcon hello thanks so much for joining us uh on this very exciting panel discussion um we're going to be talking about exactly how web Tre is being used in Africa today and what are the types of Innovations people are building uh early this week we covered uh two really interesting threads of the impact of crypto on one side it is plugging African countries and economies into the global economy that has been a hyper globalizing impact and effect that traditional systems have kind of failed us and we'll hear from Founders who are basically at the Leading Edge of of that movement in plugging payments banking infrastructure but also other services that we need to live our lives uh into the broader global economy and on the other side there's a lot of amazing opportunities to go even more local than where we are going today and we're going to hear about the hyper localization impact that perhaps were not possible to do in this way before blockchain Technologies became a thing so I'm very excited to have an amazing group of people to cover these threads with us we're going to do a very brief round of introductions and we're going to jump straight into the deep end uh Jambi do you want to introduce yourself yes my name is Jambi jog I work for Grassroots economics Foundation been working for the organization uh for the last six years now I am an advocate for Community inclusion currencies for poverty eradication and sustainable development super happy to be here and where are you from I'm from Nairobi but I live in kifi and that is also where I work nice if you guys have never been to East Africa kif is an incredible place to visit everyone thing one two awesome hey everyone my name is David Nanda I'm CE and C of a business called honey coin and Pier we are bwbc Financial super app and Treasury and payments platform I'm based out of Nairobi Kenya and like super excited to be here and thank you for all being in the room thank you hey everyone uh my name is y bosi um I'm the co-creator of onboard we're building a borderless digital money app for people in the global majority markets with a universal um un an offramp Gateway that allows anyone come on chain with Vis Le to less 50 cents whilst paying zero fees um I live in um Lagos and London um but I call myself an African onchain if you're wondering why I'm wearing a pirate um costume today I'm currently pirate uru which means freedom in Swahili and essentially um I'm spreading the freedom of money so thanks for having me thank you so uh David I I want to start off with you and we just love to understand what is the problem that you guys are really focused on when it comes to payments and what is the gap that a project like yours is filling and and what's the scale of opportunity that exists there yeah I know that's a really good question I think it really like sets the context for you know this conversation in general like I would say for us the main problem with solving is when you look at a continent any continent you take any particular continent Africa has over like 45 plus countries we are pretty much addressing the fragmentation problem and the fact that the largest players on a financial stack like banks are not incentivized to solve that fragmentation problem if anything they benefit from it right um they benefit from the fact that someone in Kenya cannot do business with someone in Nigeria unless they're doing it through them and they're going to make sure that they they'll milk as much value from them when that money is moving almost as if you're traveling physically you know to that particular market and by solving and addressing that fragmentation problem we strongly believe that as we build that plumbing which is like this pipeline it's almost like a hyper tunnel between different markets between different corridors we then now actually incentivize people to connect do business with each other actually have conversations on collaboration and partnership so I see our work as important as you know in the US during the Industrial Revolution when they were putting in the railroads to connect connect different cities uh across States and so on and so forth and um I think if we succeed if we win and and why this problem is so crucial to solve is as I mentioned in the beginning there's very few players who are incentivized to solve it because the incentives lie in the issue we see the incentives as being much larger than the issue because when you actually create the initial Plumbing what you do is you open up a world of different use cases um and and and in different ways that people will now start to like actually think of you know how do I benefit and profit from this outside of just like I'll profit of you having a very painful problem I like the analogy of plumbing and railroads those are like the Bas layer infrastructure that everything relies on 100%