PSE - Lunarpunk DAO Design for Fun & Activism│Hodlon│ETHDam 2024

[Music] hi everyone uh thank you for joining I originally um was scheduled to talk about a project called Suma which was proof of reserves I spoke about it last week at ethereum Zurich um but uh as of last night late last night I was like you know I think it would be more interesting if I talked about something else uh so I spent the day putting together this presentation for you um it was inspired by um Talk uh several talks or discussions yesterday um about kind of the solar Punk versus lunar Punk ethos and kind of what we're doing not just building in the space but building privacy tools um and so I thought uh what would it look like to make what would it look like to think of a use case practical use case uh that we could use these tools that we're all building and hacking on um and uh make a difference in the world so that's where um I'm basically going to be presenting this um concept it's a model I'm not uh I don't I don't come from a technical background I'm not going to be going into like uh um the technical aspects per se um I come from a product background um so what I'm hoping is to just kind of give this model um put it out here um share it with all of you I'm going to share like a collaborative document hackmd at the end um and kind of get out in the world and let us all hack on it so we're basically starting with how do we create a hardened private capture resistant onchain organization um so in a lot of cases um the lunar Punk so the lunar Punk um ethos the way that I understand it from solar Punk is uh it's what is the worst case scenario is one way to frame it what is the worst case scenario um how do we um anticipate um um these worst cases um in like the most uh uh environments that are most hostile to what whatever it is we're trying to maintain Freedom um the ability to um communicate with each other whatever it is um and so a solution to that would be um using onchain tools um in this sense you can kind of you can kind of imagine that the uh threat model for this would be like State actor level right okay so why why do we need to use these tools um somebody uh somebody from Italy was telling me just the other day talking about a law that passed that disallowed people because because of raves because of r r supposedly uh right to to kind of sell the idea that people couldn't uh congregate with more than 50 people a lot of people are seeing this as kind of fascist behavior and like oh uh we can be thrown in jail for uh coming together and protesting right um there were sustained protest in Hong Kong uh in 2019 um in uh Portland USA there was over a 100 days of sustained protests uh where the police often escalated the protests and violence um federal agents were snatching people off of the streets into windowless Vans to scare people um and this is this is stuff that happens all over the world uh first world third world countries right um and so uh uh organizers activists um use the tools they have telegram signal right but there's gaps in these tools they do a very specific thing you can communicate with each other but there's still a lot that goes into actually um organizing actually um um doing things and getting things done um a good an example that I'll use throughout this is um uh buying a pizza um so um if you uh imagine an onchain organization that has onchain funds um and then ultimately wants to purchase food um in order to feed people um that's kind of the the overall example that I that I um make as I go through this so first off how do people interact with it how do you log in so only 5% so 5% of the world population owns crypto this is up a lot um people actually actively using Crypt that crypto and using those tools most people huddle um most people stake um they it's a very um um passive way that they use crypto um only point so it's like two the 0 3% of the world's population so about 2.4 million people actually like are using these tools um or are actively uh voting in indows um so with the up uptake of the use of pass Keys it makes it really easy to onboard people um uh have non-native uh uh non- Crypton native people um on board onto an onchain system using pass keys don't have to write down the siege phrase you don't have to explain to them how a blockchain works okay sub resistance um so this is something especially in um private systems private networks um that how do you know that somebody's just not creating a whole bunch of accounts taking over um and taking over your Dow taking over your network um so sysmo is the whole toolkit offers a bunch of things um the main concept I'm interested in with this is is how do you prove that you're a person without actually giving up your um any of that uh information um you can do that with getcoin passport if you do getcoin passport with ZK proofs awesome you can prove that you have a human score um for people that uh don't have activity on chain um you have uh you can create some sort of vouching system within this um so that members that are already in the group can can vouch for other members reputation so it's an interesting um concept so uh Market uh Market bound tokens or tokens that uh are bought and traded on an uh open market um for Dows for voting um is inherently capturable all you have to do is buy the tokens they'll go up in price maybe but you can still buy them um there's a lot of dows and organizations experimenting with reputation-based systems um which are non-transferable tokens uh that members within the group kind of decide how they're valued and then pass them out and give them to members of that group um optimism fractals respect game does this in a way where everybody's a everybody's coming to consensus along the whole way of what the values of the contributions are everybody's agreeing as the tokens are distributed there's no question why somebody has more reputation or more respect than anybody else um is kind of built in the game that way and hats protocol uh is also another organization that's experimenting with uh reputation based systems as well and again that's important for the anti- capture mechanism um discreetly is so uh these organizations uh this onchain organization would need a way to talk to each other um right we already talked about how telegram managing burner accounts for telegram and Signal um is just kind of a pain in the ass um discreetly it is um it uses semaphor and rln um and it has completely Anonymous profiles um uses semaphor to kind of create the group you can Define the group rln for rate limit nullifier um for spam prevention um and you can have a group of of of people in a chat with no profiles completely anonymously chatting with each other uh with for voting you can use Macy um um and then you can use those reputation tokens and you can um use those to wait the votes um and you can also do quadratic voting as well within that and this is obviously all private okay spending money so this is this is a cool part um by using um TLS notary um Andor uh ZK email you can completely onchain um provably creating proofs all the way through execute a vote you have a vote uh the treasury can earmark those funds say $50 for a pizza earmarks those funds and then somebody um uh buys this pizza IRL with their with their debit card with whatever um receives an email uh proof of that uh which is then basically verified by um the tools I was just talking about ZK email um and then they submit that back to the Dow um and they they are paid out um the $50 for buying the pizzas and all of that is provable and on chain um there's a bonus here as well how do you know who's going to buy the pizza uh I mentioned hats protocol before it's very easy to designate roles with something like like hats protocol um to be like you're the pizza buying person this this Anonymous profile is a pizza buying person uh you do that and you only you are able to then uh submit this receipt um to be paid pretty cool and then the treasury so because all of that is uh approvable you can have your treasury um in something like rail gun or in privacy pools um and essentially the Dow has the you know the proof the zero knowledge proof that they have those funds um you can keep those in that Treasury and have a a completely um private treasury as well um and um that has a lot of benefits and then just the Dow can kind of know and manage their treasury so yeah so uh in conclusion um kind of the kind of takeaway from the inspiration that I got is that uh all of these privacy tools that we're we're building together um are interoperable and are part of one network and the same network um I'm not sure I didn't count how many uh different uh different projects I mentioned here but I'm sure there's many many more um and you can imagine how in order to be solving real world problems bringing a lot of these tools together to create solutions for them um are going to be what's happening um this is the QR code to the hackmd uh that I put together and finished right before this presentation I encourage you to go there um make comments make edits um uh tell me why all of it are some of it is completely wrong and won't work I love it let's collaborate uh and build cool stuff thank you very much we have time for questions we have time for questions I'm just cool there we go perfect sorry yes I'm right got to get those Q hello thanks very much for the talk um I'm just it's more a broad question about Macy um would you mind talking more about it cuz it's it's new to me and I don't actually know much about it and would like to hear your take on it I will I will do my best do we have Macy people here yeah so I will I will do my best or I can pass it over if you have a question about Macy it's it's I'm literally starting on basically zero so right here that's your Macy person yes thank you uh you mentioned uh is it rln yes I I've know nothing about that um would like a beginner how's that that please so RL is do you know do you know what semaphor is yes okay so rlin is an extension to semaphor that allows rate limiting so you can signal a certain number of times given some time period And if you go past that then someone can essentially like reverse engineer who you are so you're anonymous up until the point where you break that rate limit and then yeah someone can figure out that you were the person that made all of those signals dis disincentivizes spam it's rate limited privacy yes okay and you can connect economic factors to this so you can stake uh or or you can you know tie a getcoin passport to it or whatever and you know so yeah there there's a lot of Co so discreetly the chat app that he mentioned um I built that as like an experiment for Arlin um I wanted to see you know how can we push this like what does the ux look like it's it's a it's a pretty interesting primitive that like can be used in a lot of different ways yeah nice thank [Music] you any final questions no thank you very much that was excellent we've had some really good talks from psse this with this weekend it's been really good [Music]