Decentralized Art and Culture in the Virtual Realm

we're gonna have a uh new panel up here decentralized art and culture in the virtual realm we got zach sieward of coindesk just or jessica angel of artproject.io bruno skorock of rmrk.app gary lechance of the decentralized dance party and j.j laxton of a film peace y'all all right can everybody here okay yep all right so what's going on jessica is it cold over there uh it is cold and it is snowing in the patio of the virtual castle oh wow all right let's see and i also have my where's my my spork i loved it i've been using it i got a spork i'm a marble test i should go get mine i'm a sport marmite i like it i like it what's going on uh jj your jj has the least interesting backdrop i know i'm sorry my apologies it's the only space that was safe for me to do this respect and uh what's what's water sweeter um yeah sup um i'm bruno i'm so my last name is pronounced schwarz i know that trips a lot of people up sports yeah that's like sure plus quartz that's how we roll in in southeast europe fair enough welcome hey guys i can hear you now how's it going what's up hey hey hey guys sorry about that what i miss what are we talking about intros and pronouncing people's last name correctly did i get yours right it's a war seaboard uh close enough i go with seward i go with zach seward sewer he kind of like stewards folly like the alaska dealy but yeah i'm zach sure with coindesk hey everybody sorry for uh having problems there um what's up jessica what's up gary jj hello hello exciting to have a group of people of creatives it's like it's just the fun the fun panel it's a bruno pleasure to see you yeah let's get going so um uh you know i think this is an interesting panel there's a lot of interesting people on this panel obviously so i wanted to get going just with sort of a broad question um i think we're seeing like the excitement really pick up on uh trading of digital collectibles in the in the in the art space i think like the one that caught my attention uh just by virtue of having covered it recently was uh that like crypto punk that sold the flamingo dow for a whole lot of money um so i think we're starting to see sort of different ways that people are getting excited about trading these things and i'm gonna throw it to you jessica first about like what comes next you know you know we're seeing some big sums splash around we're seeing some nice headlines around this stuff but outside of that initial excitement around trading some of these assets what do you foresee when it comes to digital art and collectibles in the virtual realm um well i foresee maybe a new trend with incorporating augmented reality in digital assets or digital art pieces that can be seen somehow outside of the screen uh so in the makerspace here in east denver which is uh kind of a curated group of people and actually everybody here is also participating there there's a group called steroid universe and what we're doing is uh taking uh assets that are already tokenized and bringing them uh to be visualized via augmented reality so i mean i come from from the art world that is you know more traditional and it generally is hard for traditional collectors to interact with uh the digital piece that only lives in the screen and there's like this sort of disconnect so i think that uh having the possibility of breaking the screen and bringing the art outside of the woman's people's digital nature um it is going to be uh probably a step forward uh with uh digital art being sold maybe for larger amounts um and yeah it seems it seems like uh the ogs are the ones that are you know leading so i guess i would like to see the rare pepes out again for example gotcha so gary i want to go to you you're more on the performance art side of things obviously with sort of a dance space uh what do you what's your take on i guess how creative expression uh evolves here going forward in terms of nfts yeah in terms of digital collectibles but also just more broadly about like the artistic experience uh online with tools that are presented on ethereum and other other chains yeah it's been amazing i've been following bitcoin since 2011 and sort of marginally aware of nfts for the last few years but just over the last month taking a deep dive into the whole space to try and figure out how to launch our own project and yeah it's like seeing the dawn of crypto all over again and it's crazy the ramifications for copyright and anyone creative being able to actually own a digital good and not have to rely on governments to enforce copyright there's whole new ways to build completely new ecosystems and yeah just amazing the potential to divide a piece of art or a song or even a band like any entity can now become a bunch of nfts and the sky's the limit so gary you said you took a deep dive in the last couple months is that right just the last month really yeah just the last month what's like the thing in the last month that was really exciting to you like what's a what's a tangible example of something that will like really open your eyes and you're like oh okay there's like new frontiers here and digital ownership i think just the concept like i've been into the idea of tokenization for a long time but i guess i didn't really put together like the example i give a lot of people is between video games now you can bring your armor or if you have a piece of art you can have it in a website or in decentraland or in crypto voxels or now there's all these digital picture frames where you can display them so it's just like melding the virtual and terrestrial worlds and with augmented reality just everything's going to blend and everything that isn't a currency is probably going to become an nft so jj yeah that sounds good i mean jj i think that segues nicely with what you're doing sort of on the marketplace side with ephemera uh like talk to me about you know given all the options that are out here for where this could go like where are you focusing on uh you know bringing sort of museum quality art to the masses in the digital realm um i mean we've started by creating kind of a traditional marketplace and focusing on you know the quality of the art and the tools that we give both the artists and the collectors moving forward i think that uh they were talking about it on the previous talk uh interoperability is a big thing i think um because right now we have you know nfts really live in silos and so if we really want this to kind of be the kind of universal way of you know creating value digitally then interoperability is going to be going to play a really big role in that moving forward and so that's what we're looking at as a you know as a business and and is trying to how do we how do we bridge those gaps between you know these different pockets of of assets and value and creators and collectors and really make it as kind of you know homogeneous as possible as one big like group of people instead of right now you've kind of got these different you know cliques kind of clashing with each other and i don't think that that's you know healthy in the long term we need everybody working together well so that's bruno over there right hey bruno sorry for being technically challenged a little bit earlier while you're introducing yourself but so bruno you represent sort of an interesting voice on this panel i think because you you sort of work in the polka dot realm and when we talk about interoperability and sort of uh nfts branching out beyond ethereum i think it's um something i don't hear a ton about in polkadot right now so i just kind of wanted like an update on what sort of nft scene is over in that world yeah so uh since polkadot's not a smart contract chain and doesn't really want to be one um it's it's a layer of zero chain basically that aims to connect everything else and enable this transfer of nfts across other chains we're not focusing on building the primitives for that but there's a bunch of projects already in the space that are and um there's some there are some chains that will just flat out support smart contracts that you will be able to build nfts on just like you can on ethereum right now but also there are some projects that go for native implementation of of these nft primitives so that they're kind of you know first-class citizens on that chain so the nft is like a like a primitive as much as a native token is um and one of those is like this unique network thing um so they they want to be a chain that'll connect to polka dot and you will be able to bridge your nfts from any other chain to that chain through polkadot and so the idea is to just build out an ecosystem that branches out as much as possible and that lets you move your nfts around without any limitations so if you see some nice opportunity on that particular chain move your nft there if if the trading fees are really cheap there and you have uh i don't know for some reason super high liquidity on your on your afts but then if you want to get some big loan on your super rare uh collectible you'll move to a d5 chain and the same ecosystem just as seamlessly put it down as collateral take out alone you move that alone somewhere else and use it anywhere else in the ecosystem without actually you know taking away any traffic or usage from the other chains you would be actively participating in all of them by doing this so this is kind of the long-term aim there but right now since the the parrot chain functionality isn't launched yet so the chains can't really connect just yet um there are plans to bring in native nfts onto kusama network which is the polkadot canary network which is more art inclined and more cypherpunky so we're more prone to experimentation and not afraid of really breaking things and adding new functionality in there and that's coming in the next few months and in the meanwhile as a hotfix kind of i built remark.app which is rmrk.

app which is kind of just a colored coins version of nfts on on kusama so basic nft functionality exists you can send them you can buy them you can sell them but we are actually waiting for this native implementation the remark only exists kind of like not to miss out on this nft craze really um but yeah the plan is just to you know have this three-pronged approach of of remark as a patch then native level on kusama and then all of the other chains that are doing nfts in a variety of different ways connecting to the ecosystem and through the ecosystem to ethereum to near to all the other chains that are doing other interesting stuff gotcha i do want to step back a little bit you mentioned the nft craze and you know for folks who who may just be curious about how we came to this present moment i'm going to stick with you bro bruno on this question um i've heard a lot about you know fractional ownership of nfts really changing the game in terms of making these liquid and enticing to investors like what's when someone asks you like what why is the nft craze happening when someone asks you that what's your uh what's your best answer as to why we're seeing such excitement around this right now um i mean frankly it's just a just a bull market craze um 90 of it is just a bull market craze people are looking for the next best thing to to earn money on but there's a bunch of enthusiasts who really love this stuff um and we are like i think all of us are in touch with with these crazy people who absolutely love this and who want to to launch these interesting artsy stuff um on a chain that'll let them do really fun experiments um there were these programmatic nfts that showed up recently that react to randomness from the chain itself or to inputs from the owner of the nft um others took it to other levels where they added these augmented reality components that jessica mentioned so if you're the owner and you load your wallet into augmented reality glasses or a software wallet on your phone you will be able to see that nft in a different light than everybody else and so you get a special treat the owner having special permissions over nft is also super insane like if i were able to to change the mona lisa to blush right now as people are looking at it and deliver i think a lot of people would pay a lot of money for that functionality just because it's a really cool uh gimmick and a really cool flex to have right and so we're also experimenting with weird stuff on on remark like we have we just added on-chain emotes for nfts and so if you send like 50 rocket emoji to my painting of a moon a rock is going to land on that moon so it's it's you know dynamic art like that is is what makes people excited it's not any it's not anymore just about you know putting a a gif or a jpeg online and pretending it's decentralized uh it's it's it's much more than that now we have this collaborative environment where people's wallets can interact and different conditions on the chain can affect these nfts and this is what i think is driving the the craze and another part is also the other types of nfts if we go beyond art like we'll be selling an apartment as an nft later this year um which is something that i don't think anybody's done and it's fully legal and the person who burns the nft will actually get the transfer transfer the ownership of the apartment to them um you know stuff like that so i think we're opening up a new avenue of uh human interaction through these nfts and i think that's really what what encourages a lot of people jessica i want to put the a version of the same question to you you know uh you know the the why is the nfd craze happening uh you know on the other side of it is when you're interfacing with artists who are sort of learning about this this for the first time what about this is resonating with them uh when you're having those conversations with creators uh why are they sort of increasingly excited about this technology um it seems to me that um a lot of sort of new blood is coming into the space new artists who are asking all these questions like what is this it probably has to do with the fact that platforms like super rare known origin async art have been getting more um you know activity and more sales obviously the fact that people are selling is bringing more artists in uh but i think um the uh ethos behind um crypto art is a little bit different it's more inclusive it's community-based artists feel a little bit more at ease at the board trying to get into a gallery which is an enclosed kind of detestable i would say environment and that's why i've sort of felt so good in this space it's because it's community driven um so with what i'm doing with artproject.io is precisely sort of offer that bridge for people who are just getting started on connecting them on what is the best place to go for the work um and i think the main questions that i'm getting from them are just you know the basics of blockchain what is this and i think it's really interesting for for art to be this sort of gateway between um you know the common people and blockchain would be like hey there is this whole thing about decentralization that has all this potential but it has all this meaning and this potential sort of societal change and if you look at you know the basis of it as it's just you know really enticing and um it's exciting to see that artists are starting to sort of wake up about what decentralization is about and also solving problems that we are kind of seeing with big tech and it's it's cool for art to be that you know uh sort of catalyzer between blockchain and and common people people so yeah i'm also working with uh art and blockchain that is not necessarily tokenizing because the conversation between uh art and culture in the decentralized space generally tends to just focus on nfds and there's really a lot more than just the nfts there are projects for example kusama that are um sponsoring artists in a different level that it's not necessarily by tokenizing and selling art there are these treasuries there are all these resources in the blockchain space that artists can tap into by presenting proposals you know participating in dallas participating in the community and being able to fund artworks that are you know that you wouldn't otherwise be able to do so it's not just about the nfd itself uh there's kind of a larger umbrella in the art and blockchain space yeah i mean jj i guess like you know you're you're working specifically sort of in the art end of this you know when you're talking to people are you doing a lot of the education on what is blockchain are you finding yourself having those conversations or are there different conversations at this point uh that's something that we're really working on is trying to reach out to those artists that are not necessarily crypto native um so for us the kind of conversation we have is really 50 50 and that's by choice you know i mean i think it's it's you could create a platform and just focus on people who are already in the crypto art space and you you know you'd probably be successful but i think that if we really care about the ecosystem we and we you know really believe in the change that can come out of it then it's really important to reach out to other people and so yeah we've spent a lot of time teaching people like this is what's metamask you know what what is an ethereum address um you know sending people their first you know each so that they can tokenize and pay gas i think that's really important and it goes back to what jessica talks about about being an inclusive community is that you know generally i think these kind of communities that tend to be technologically driven tend to be inclusive communities where you know we're all figuring out how to make money now but you know it's still being driven by the tech and i think that that's been true you know basically since the beginning of the computer you think about like the history of unix uh really started because you know a programmer at bell labs wanted to play a video game on a new system that he didn't you know that they didn't have any kind of operating system for you and it's like well if a video game can start a whole revolution in computing you know why can't art start a whole revolution and you know value on the internet gary i want to go uh i want to go back to you because i i do like this idea of you you know having me in the crypto states for a long time and then all of a sudden just kind of like diving back in and going hard on on nfc and digital collectibles like what about this moment brought you in and like opened up the rabbit hole for you to dive in like i i want to ask i want to ask like this uh a different take on that same question that i presented to you earlier like what what drew you to this present moment yeah so with the ddp decentralized dance party we've been doing crazy mobile street parties for the past 11 years where we have hundreds of boom boxes synchronized with the radio transmitter instead of a central stage it's like everyone is a node in this party network so oh is that an actual background or is that a virtual background that you're in front of that's the real that's the real deal right there yeah there you go are you in one of the vans what are you in right now this is the ddp headquarters wow my apartment okay cool so this is not the mobile this is not the mobile activation like you are you are at home base right now yeah okay cool so i'm sorry sorry to interrupt i just wanted to like set the stage there on that so anyway you've been doing this for a long time continue um and yeah i mean it's a longer story i don't want to take up the whole it would take hours to explain it all but we realized pretty quickly that partying in the street this decentralized joy mob basically we believe it has the power to unite the whole world in celebration and if we did so we think we could win the nobel prize for partying so that's been the objective for a very long time and it was way back 2014 had the idea inspired by the doge to create instead of war bonds like governments used to create to fight wars peace bonds to wage peace and was into blockchain back then i was like man we got to create these somehow digitally on the doge blockchain so i've got a video way back then laying this all out but the tech just wasn't there and now everything's kind of aligned during the pandemic we started doing mixed reality virtual terrestrial parties and we realize that doing these virtual parties through zoom you can have like an unlimited number of people receiving with giant speakers or boom boxes out in the street and we realized that yeah it's time to finally do this thing so we're working on the ddp documentary and our big nft idea was p-spawns instead of war bonds so are wait are the are the p spawns live right now are the p spawns happening i have uh some images i could share if the screen let's do it i want to see some p-spawns you guys want to see some p-spawns yeah we got some thumbs up from the crowd looks like i have to share screen so i don't know if you can share an individual thing but let's try this out while gary brings the peace bombs i wanted to say that's kind of an example of you know the culture itself around the centralization kind of brings a whole new level of interaction and a whole new level of you know joy around the ideas of whether it is nfps or just crypto in general and the whole crypto you know culture and communities i i think that's what the art around uh blockchain art is besides just the fact that you can have scarce digital art right so we are we are seeing the peace bonds with in doge we trust it's a very doji moment in time at crypto more broadly so congratulations to you for riding the present moment of interest that's cool uh we've been we've been devotees of the doge from day one cool sweet so wait so these are so just tell me like i'm stupid so these are nfts that are tradable on the doge blockchain that i can acquire somehow where where where are these besides on your laptop we've been figuring out the exact best tech to use to launch so right now these are just the placeholder images like doge blockchain cannot support this correct like you're gonna have to like do this on ethereum i'm presuming right yeah okay okay because doge has been bridged to ethereum so technically they could you think you think they could okay well they could they could use the colored coins approach that i used to force nfts onto kusama so it's the same approach you just slap graffiti onto transactions from dogecoin and if you interpret them correctly then you could get nfts on dogecoin it's hacky and it's it's way less practical than ethereum but it's you know in the spirit of the dance party i guess we're actually uh yeah it'd be great to talk more about that because that would be the ultimate dream yeah yeah our hackathon project is bringing all these things together so bruno can you uh can you help gary here can you uh can you broker some sort of connection some sort of uh introduction to make this happen i'm sure it can alright that's that's that's history right there that's history in the making we just saw we just saw it go down what you saw the beginning of amazing things that's cool uh so yeah uh bruno i'm gonna stick with you actually because you know i think you have a good sort of like perspective on things what are other projects that are uh on your radar that you are especially interested by when it comes to nfts or other forms of digital uh digital artistic experience um well i'm i'm pretty invested in still i'm still pretty even though i spent most of my time in polkadot and that ecosystem and still pretty much invested in ethereum and it's nft space because it's that's where things are happening uh until we have that connectivity that i that i mentioned so um i do frequent all of the all the platforms that we we've seen and discussed on on east denver um i don't have anything special anything of note to to really present but i'm a big fan of game related as as a gamer i'm a big fan of game related nfts so i will do i will try anything that that has game in its name so the new cometh game uh by john lilik i think his next last name is um it's it's pretty awesome where you play a kind of like an nft powered d5 game with yield generating comets um i think that's the stuff that you know blockchain dreams are made of at least for me um i want i want this sort of stuff to bloom and to to build ecosystems that span not only games on one blockchain but different blockchains so i want to take my you know hook my comment up to my space freighter and take it over to a to a chain and poke it out and i don't know wager is there against somebody's bitcoin um when i'm betting that proof of work will be obsolete in five years so um it's just yeah i'm trying to keep up and keep up with everything but it's it's it's really difficult so if you got any suggestions just throw it in my way okay uh jj do you have any suggestions what's exciting what's like an exciting nft thing actually two questions what's an exciting nft thing and what's like your personal nft mona lisa are you like a crypto punks guy or like do you have a do you have a holy grail in the nft world that you wanna that you wanna share here and now a holy grail no don't uh i mean i think that i think our the holy my holy grail hasn't been made as it doesn't exist yet i'm still waiting for the holy grail to come out well what's it going to be then so it doesn't exist yet so what's it going to be i mean you know i look at like what um bruh is talking about with you know gaming and we look at you know what happened like a day ago actually infinity just sold some land for like a million dollars and a half you know and to me the real pinnacle of of where the nft space is going is combining everything that everybody in this panel is doing like with the decentralized dance party and what jessica's doing and you know and just creating you know an nft that is at once both you know like real estate art a performance when we have all of those kind of worlds combined um i think that that's really where we start realizing that hey we can do so much more with these digital assets than just replicate what exists in the real world and i think that's when we're going to start to see you know our mona lisa's come up jessica i want to kick it to you for the last question we only have maybe about 30 seconds left but yeah i wanted to know like what's the next indicator for you that's going to let us as an industry know that you know the nft movement has hit its next year what are you looking forward to as that next indicator is it the synergistic sort of combining of the metaverse and different collectibles is it something else entirely no i think it's more um you know when you when you hear people just talking about it when you hear people really acting up on it when you hear and i feel that we're not really that far away from it i have friends from colombia where i'm from who are already asking me about that hey i've heard that there's this deathcon thing and they're coming here and they're just asking there's art on on that can you please tell me about it like that itself isn't indicative to me that the word is being spread and that there's you know already something going on even in colombia and they're just contacting me out of the blue so yeah i guess just as you as you hear people talking about it people that you totally didn't expect so yeah i think uh i think it's we're not too far cool that's the optimistic note close it on i'm gonna toss it back to our kind hosts at eth denver thanks so much rare scrilla you ready to take it from here we've got a thumbs up jessica gary jj and bruno thanks so much it's zach we'll do again soon thanks for doing it bye guys thanks thanks may the doge be with you that was a great panel i got inspired by my man gary the chance there get the doge running across the screen got some toast you running across the screen there um really interesting points about nfts there thank you all great panel