Special Feature on Growth Markets ASEAN & Latin America

[Music] back it's great to have you here great to see you here always a pleasure you know one thing that I always enjoy about our conversations is the unique perspective and I think actually opportunity that argentum has brought to the UAE and Abu Dhabi and adgm because you've been in these Emerging Markets across the globe for so long and been so granular and in the 15 years I've been here I haven't seen someone with that kind of expertise come in so thank you for being a part of the ecosystem happy be here this is our this is our second home so and a little bit about argentum I mean I know that you started at JP Morgan then you started a fund with Cargill called Black River and then you launched argentum and currently you're in Buenos seris New York London and now Abu Dhabi correct and Minnesota and Minnesota carel won't let me leave well you should spend the winters here as opposed to Minnesota a little different so look let's do what we always do take a bit of a global tour um and let's start with Latin America so the big story this year out of Latin America has been Argentina the new president his economic reforms his make Argentina great again uh sort of theme could you tell us your perspective on it um and you know you've been there a while what you think the opportunities are and maybe some situations if that you could speak of yeah I mean um firstly thanks uh to adgm and um the leadership for inviting me back um it's great event happy to have been here all three years so just keeps getting more and more impressive um with respect to Argentina uh you know you have a new president um he is not a politician he's an economist uh and one with very strong views I think people sort of mischaracterize him and you know sort of line him up with Trump it's not really um the case um we've been operating in Argentina for a few decades um prior to him uh his election which came as a surprise for a lot of people it wasn't that surprising for us um we were relatively positive on Argentina constant volatility populist um governments but within that context um you're always finding things to do where there's a balance of upside and downside um when uh melee won uh I think uh people doubted the willingness of the of the population to embrace the difficulties that he was about to you know put at on on the populace at large with you know pretty serious reforms very aggressive spending cuts um all with the goal towards free market uh and I mean Argentina's been one of if not the best performing markets uh this year in Emerging Markets um it's been uh a country where most people have suffered from a returns perspective um you know we we have people on the ground there we we've actually always been profitable in Argentina which I think is a feat um and you know our with his administration are are we we've adjusted our risk um taken more um aggressive risk uh and that's paid off very handsomely uh but the risk is not gone uh it's gone very well but I mean you have a massive adjustment happening here so uh but you also have the possibility of um you know uh A 100-year change is what the President says so I think uh and and we're relatively optimistic about that I think what you'll end up finding is um similar to the theme of the of the prior panel who I thought that was fantastic um I agree with almost everything they said especially the comment about special situations is misunder understood in terms of its risk spoton um so I think you're going to see opportunities in Argentina that you haven't really um they've been there but they've been very risky to take so private credit um long-term growth Equity Etc um but I would just caution that things can change quickly in Argentina as quickly as this positive wave has come it can reverse so it's probably a little early to you know to take that step today but definitely a a very big opportunity if this continues and I guess Visa Latin America I mean you can't really paint Latin America with one broad brush that you know it's a homogeneous market so do you see some of the other countries moving in the same direction or is it just idiosyncratic yeah it's sort of interesting as as Argentina has moved away from populist governments many of the other countries have have gone the other way uh so um you know you see that in Brazil you see that you know with with uh in Mexico with the reelection or not the reelection but the election of the same party the marina party um so I think there's tough times ahead for country like Mexico especially with the you know new Administration in the states um the the free trade agreement between the US Canada and Mexico uh is up for renewal in 2026 um you know you're already hearing the saber rattling so um I think that's a that's a a major factor in what lies ahead for Mexico and I think it's really tough to predict and those kinds of opportunities you know for us generally when there's lack of visibility volatility a a a big but fast shift in policy usually represents good opportunity for for special sits so we don't have much exposure there today in fact we have none um but looking closely Brazil is a land of always opportunity um you know it's uh one of the more unique probably the most unique Market in in um Latin America but it's also I would say the market where the local instit tions are as competitive as anywhere else in in the world so it has its own unique challenges so let's take a quick pivot over to Asia I mean you've been in China for a long time Y A lot of people are sort of on the fence about China right now you have the new Trump Administration coming in what do you see happening in China over the next couple of years and also is that an opportunity or definitely an opportunity uh it's been and uh a bit of a wasteland for a lot of fixed income investors um primarily because of property but um you know we similar to Argentina we've actually had a very good run in in China um you know people say you can't do restructurings the law doesn't work etc etc etc our experience has been very different um but I think you need to be on the right side of government policy um one thing about the Chinese government when they tell you don't do this or we're going to do that pay attention and uh I think the sectors that have suffered have been you know fairly well telegraphed so we've done well by being uh very mindful of that trying to be aligned and um uh be involved in win-win situations where you know the outcome is you know is good for both sides and you know it takes a network takes long-term presence I mean similar to what the folks were saying about doing business in the Middle East I mean these these are very similar characteristics it's very different but the the sort of the overall thesis is and I've also seen um you build relationship with these families yeah so you may have solved a problem and then on top of a problem comes an opportunity as well to diversify your exposure there what about the rest of Asia um Philippines Vietnam Indonesia are you looking at those markets are you doing anything there yeah um we've uh um we've been more active I mean historically we've been in China and uh Indonesia um primarily um but we've we've expanded that we've done some business in in the Philippines very excited about that um started to do some Venture lending so our Core Business is a special situation sort of stressed and dist rested um with some verticals that are adjacent to that and complimentary so um Venture lending private credit um and you know with the size of populations in places like like Philippines it's growing um uh underbanked um very interesting um we've uh with our well we just got our license here so we're very happy about that but um uh being here has given us a vantage point of looking at places in the re or adjacent to the region so Africa uh Turkey um and I think the key about for us our long-term uh success I think has been built on Emerging Markets is a very very large SP and you have so many countries with unique cultures bankruptcy systems etc etc um that you need to try and embed yourself locally however you manage to do that whether it's on the ground or through your networks um and uh uh be focused on the areas where you see special opportunities don't try and be everywhere at the same time um so you mentioned turkey and you know we talked about Asia a little bit now that you're here it also seems you're starting to make some investments in the broader region y turkey Egypt um I know that you were listening very intent to what was being discussed previously yeah and I think they're spot on a great panel what about what you've done in turkey and Egypt can you tell us a little bit about that yeah so um while we're not uh sector Specialists um we do have our preferences um and we're increasingly finding what we like to do syns with you know the the the um goals of of uh the UAE um so uh uh we've been the recent thing we did in Turkey was um in energy transition materials um love copper um but not just um so uh we uh we invested in a copper and gold mining company using that as a as an acquisition vehicle for other other Acquisitions um around the region um synced with uh one of the uh important local families which we thought was very very important um that can be a double-edged sword of course so you really have to choose you know your your uh your partners carefully um but very excited about that and being here really really helps that a lot I've seen that that you know you're in these markets but you're also getting close to Commodities and natural resources that are important to Abu dhabi's growth plans and maybe transition energy transition plans as well yeah very much so that really makes you unique here well congratulations on getting the license I know it's been so two years to get to this point um what do you see for the future for our agum here from Abu Dhabi now um well I'm looking forward to a bill Super Bowl I don't know if we're going toew our bet this year um but uh very excited about having our license and uh you know we've been investing here two years um and in people and in networks and so forth and I I think now we'll be able have that really be able to accelerate that growth um I think the opportunities set the that that were mentioned previously right up our alley um we're very excited about Africa um turkey's been a great start um so this is uh our growth as a firm is going to be in Abu Dhabi for sure that's great so you mention the bills I don't know if anybody knows but we are we support rival football teams this is going to take 10 seconds what is your team's record this year 10 and three yeah 10 and three unfortunately we lost my team is three and 10 Dan gave me a Bill's hat last year which I've been wearing somewhat you know that's part of the bet I'm not giving you a Jets hat I'm giving you a capital of capital hat all right so there you that I will wear proudly and that's a photo op for anybody thank you Del thank you everybody [Music]