RWA Tokenization: Best Use Cases

cool all right so my name is Sandra and I'm leading comson Partnerships at Vegeta Finance which is a spin-off from Singularity net and so what we are doing is we are tokenizing fixed income assets and AI managed portfolios of equities and so this is essentially a treasury management solution hello everyone my name is Max flow I'm a co-founder of asset cat and what we do is like we build an Amazon for tokenized assets uh and as well we provide a WI solution for businesses and institions that want to tokenize their assets so yeah hi everyone I'm V USI I'm the CEO of bitet we are the centralized exchange we this project we serve 35 million customers globally and facilitate 10 billion transactions every day so this is cool um rwa tokenization right we have treasury Asset Management right treasury management and then Bali re real estate and then your centralized exchange so we have kind of like a broad overview of different layers in rwa that we can cover I guess I'm the panelist hi mat K here um and um I want to kind of like do top layer questions and then we'll kind of like dig in so everyone can leave here understanding a little bit more deeper rwa stuff than just kind of like the macro what you need read in headlines right now but um so I think we should also just like we'll dig in I I I have my first question here for Max so fractionalized real estate right can you give people a breakdown of how that works with your company yeah all right so uh so what we try to do at asset cat is like basically I spend my last 8 years of traveling across the globe I lived in multiple countries and I spoke with tens of thousands people and I realized that actually with the what blockchain is bringing an idea of tokenization that you are enabling to basically divide assets into pieces it can help to unlock billions of dollars in wealth uh so that was the main idea behind the asset cat and that's why uh we started doing that with real estate and the reason for Real Estate is because everyone knows real estate you don't need to explain people Why Real Estate is good to own uh everyone knows that real estate is a good asset to own it's also about a managing that is Al very often a tough factor for people because they don't know how to manage or who to keep the management to so we started doing that with the real estates in Valley because me and my co-founders were was were based in Valley um so we love the market the market was really expanding and we wanted to offer something to the clients that generates uh a great returns when we talk about great returns in Valley for the real estate we talk about 12 to 18% uh uh on average per year of Roi uh and we focus on the short-term rent uh all the properties that we tokenize are existing properties we don't buy a hole in the ground uh so the the moment we buy the property it's immediately being rented out and generating the revenue for the clients globally and um yeah that's what that's how we do it in valy and we we we tried a complete different approach than I believe many our competitors do because we saw that the biggest issue with the tokenization of the assets for retail is the fact that there's no demand for it so how do you create demand you can only create a demand by creating a community so we started with building the community and since like March this year we build a Comm of like 130,000 people from more than 100 countries and we aim to educate these people and then grow it further to create a smart investor a community of smart investors who want to build generational wealth using tokenized assets and buy assets within 2 minutes via platform like asset cat thanks and then Sandra from Kito finances perspective how are you guys approaching rwa tokenization I'm just going to do a little bit of like a refresh uh because you have one less problem than than us because we have toiz TBL and it turns out not everybody knows what TBL are so yes everybody knows what real estate is uh so we are focusing right now on having various um risk appetites right in our offerings so you know treasuries right now are very very obvious risk-free assets 5% right now cuts are going to come it's only a matter of time and so we are preparing for a strategy that is focused on corporate bonds then when it comes to which is also catered to entities you know onchain companies uh Dows but then for example we see quite a lot of interest into our X fund which is the the managed portfolios equities and so this is of course Very like a high risk High return profile of of an investment uh so here we see more interest from the from Traders right um but so this is essentially like different types of diversification and uh we are trying trying to focus on both onchain companies and traditional investors because it seems like um it's kind of funny we have also investors from traditional like for example asset managers that they for them it's easier to go through us to for example have access to t- bills than to actually go on their own because it it turns out that both um oning companies like web 3 companies and traditional ones can have problems with you know creating a brokerage account with uh with bank account with you know with when you're a crypto company uh it turns out that you have a ton of problems when it comes to establishing these accounts we've been through that and we were very surprised how lengthy and problematic it is so these are struggles that other companies will have to face as well um so this this aside there is also something that I personally really really like is how when you're a d or a web three company we have different values that you know traditional companies have we want transparency in terms of okay what you're investing in and how are you securing your financial Runway and so with tokenized let's say t- bills you put that kind of confidence into your company for the community and so this is how we're trying to you know have this approach when it comes to our investors this is cool so we're kind of De like developing a narrative in real time like asset cut is focusing on the individual user you guys are focusing on companies let's pass the mic over to you and and see how um from a centralized exchange perspective what's your guys's approach to rwa tokenization first of all our approach is that just because you can tokenize something it doesn't mean you have to because we have seen a lot of projects for example real estate fractional rental FR investment been there forever and it is kind of a changing form it's actually not something in new even though it is a wealth on chain and eventually even if you have millions and billions passing through it doesn't mean it will increase the overall crypto Market because it's just changing a form whether you buy a property using dollars Euros pounds lotes or Bitcoin it doesn't matter much uh and eventually that fractional tokenization is heavily based on usdp therefore it's not much of value creation but on other end we see a lot of uh projects that are doing much complex uh tokenization whether it is about an infrastructure for example there are pro projects that tokenize the mobile towers that distribute between the mobile providers and it's a very complex system because there's a bitting involved also the transparency and the how the money is generated value is generated and spent and also expensive therefore they over very critical uh infrastructure problems and also we have seen a lot of deepin projects coming in place where they can uh for example tokenize real world assets such as Chargers or a solar panels that they can generate electricity and sell back to the Grid or whenever if you have a charger you can rent it to your neighbors and basically it is like a two-way tokenization where you don't just generate wealth by investing but or actually you generate weals by both getting and earning and getting back for example you might have a solar panel where generate electricity s to the grid and I might have a charger that buys that electricity but you can then rent my charger basically we create that a huge uh value transfer on chain which is very transparent and very cheap rather than if we all went and did it through government and calculation for as a centralized exchange we are looking into the project that we can list that have actual value Creation in a longer run and can help fa facilitate very or solve complex problems of the world when Real World assets rather than just looking into taking the something that traditionally already existed for example title Deeds right back in time it wasn't paper then all became PDF but it's still like A4 not smart contract but it is still within the same logic of the things are done it is not much of in my opinion it's to anization that we are forcing but doesn't change more I like that you said not everything needs to be tokenized um and there is like kind of a big gap between rwa and dpin so I'm glad that you brought that up I've been talking a lot about dpin recently and it seems to be the next kind of thing they almost go hand inand deep in in rwa um what what challenges are you guys seeing in this space right now like with growing with fundraising with finding users um is there is there anything that you guys see there and this is all like for all of you I guess like you know we'll just kind of Lobby back and forth now but um how how do we get to that next I imagine we're going to do all the Partnerships and we're going to do all the business deals and then we'll reach kind of like a plateau like how do we get beyond that Plateau that that's what I exactly mentioned because for example real estate tokenization was there forever it's a model that works you could buy I don't know hotel room and rent it like 50 years ago vacation rentals and you can do it today but also with SU discussing like in United Arab Emirates they want to toonize race camels and race forces and whatever and milk them yeah yeah like tokenized milk yeah you can I don't know you can tokenize a lottery ticket but also you can do something very complex that can I don't know tokenizing the satellites that you send and use a long-term investment because I'm not sure in like who is familiar with a satellite business when you send a satellite and then you can rent it and sell it to TV channels and also GPS navigator providers and many other things that could be done and it can be a long-term investment and having a resale value and also it can because now it's predominantly done by the government but it can also bring it to the people or maybe buying some other infrastructure or piece of an infrastructure that you invest uh I think that could change the entire ecosystem is done otherwise it will definitely hit the Plateau if you just take whatever exists there and tokenize it for the sake of toonize yeah to me I I look at it like the market is very wide and you can actually tokenize in the assets and yeah it need to make sense uh instead of the in terms of the challenges that I see um is that very very often things are too complex and they need to be simplified and I think that's always the the case in the web space uh so even if we talk about real estate organization um it's not a rocket science but it's a no-brainer to do and by doing that you unlock the wealth of the billions of people and even when you build exchange you want people in your exchange so this provides the indirectly the demand to exchange later because these people will be onboarded to the web fre but they don't need to know web fre but through that they will learn what is web free so it's like this process of basically digitalization and moving forward into the space so I would mostly focus on uh as a challenge what you were saying Matt and I think that's the same of the dip in which you said has a really amazing applications and we talk about on X basis as well a lot um but it's about simplifying the things and there's so many things that you can uh sort using web free and organization but the key is to explain in the very simple way in educated community so they know what they actually can do with it and how I really love the fact that you mentioned complexity and simplification because we also struggle with that especially yeah but the problem is that regulations are not allowing us to be simple the thing is that for example when we want to on board an entity the amount of documents that are necessary and that are required by you know our fund admin and they cannot you know overcome it like there's no going around it there is literally no other option because we have to be compliant so we kind of like you know going around in circles with how to make it easy yet how to be compliant um but the other thing that I find pretty challenging is how we have this you know institutional defi coming in right so it means that everything is kyc I don't know if you know not everybody um will want to you know be K kyc especially in defi when we have this status quo and people like to be anonymous but I think that it will be moving away from that but the thing is that for example when you're thinking about how to use rwas or tokenize RW in defi when these are permissioned tokens you have to be kyc you have to be on the white list and then the problem appears when you want to integrate into defi protocols like for example you know to to lend it against something um and uh the the problem is when it when it comes to liquidations because then what happens when when you liquidate you know a loan and then uh who is you know the owner of this token they have to be you know on the white list so there are ways to overcome this but essentially it's about def5 protocols to be prepared to actually tackle these kind of cases because I would love to see more D5 protocols to actually you know use rwa as collateral but how for them it's it's like an additional risk additional cost to you know talk with lawyers and actually integrated it's their choice like you know are you going with that strategy are you going you know along the this narrative or not so I say that it's only a matter of time that they will have to but we're going to see but essentially this like whole kyc um challenge essentially really great points I think the the sexiness and bridging real world you know web 2 to web 3 there is kind of a challenge coming up soon if not already the mic car right Mika I don't know if I'm saying it correctly but all that stuff in Europe is about to go off do you have any updates that you can share with the crowd or like give us a tldr of like what that is and what changes you see coming in the coming in like the future funny that you actually ask about it cuz uh when I was at EC ECC I met the European commissioner that was actually talking like she was writing the the MAA and uh she actually like mentioned how it's going to be from the next year it's going to be pretty challenging for companies like for example goito to um to you know act on our products because we are an asset manager and our tokens are securities so that puts a lot of pressure into how are we actually strategizing our you know products like how are we going to Market ourselves so um this is something that I don't know if if you would have the same um max the same cases I don't know if you're an N manager but I guess that you have an SPV or not but but to ask like you know crypto has always be a gray Zone and we never knew like which direction we going to go right so usually there is regulation coming in and then you have your legal team and they help to advise you to adjust especially unless we are a big exchange then you you know you better don't do that um but but with us you know as like me startup right or like when we are not so big yet we we are fluctuating left and right because we need to learn how the how the regulations are developing honestly like from my end uh we all know what happened to gdpr and now we all end up in these mobile screens that half of it is occupied with something and we accept that cookie policy that we don't know what we are doing every single time like new website uh okay allow cookies like is it actually like a protecting us as a user I'm not sure as an American I'm like come on like I just want to give me the content exactly but like it is how it all turned up for sake of protection we don't know what and how it's protected and my biggest concern is that mic will become another you know gdpr H screen that we will all just accept without actually going to deep and especially as an exchange we have a huge legal team we recently hired like a head of legal to sort all these matters because it's becoming very complicated and someone I I'm based I used to live in London but I moved to Dubai for obvious reasons and with the laws and regulations being so easy in there and helping like a startups to build their product because it's very crazy in my opinion expecting a startup or a project just hire like a three or four people legal team with that small Runway they have while they could invest it into any other position that will bring more value to the team or to building the product and I think the M will really make all Europe startup struggle once that are already having money probably they can hire team and do stuff but for new produ on I think a lot of developers will be looking to go to the new places where they have easier legal and regulations for end user as I mentioned I don't think it will do much unless it is that another accepting point and I think biggest change is we also were talking to the legislators it is about the limit that they are bringing for non kyc transaction which is €3,000 I believe which makes everything very complicated especially when comes to real world assets definitely there are much more than that 3,000 limit it means everything should be kyc and everything should be you have to understand who is it has Plus Sizes but also like I I think it is going against that D idea and it will be very hard to convince like a crypto native to come and invest especially if they don't want to identify I love that you just said DJ um cuz to me rwa and dpen feels like like this is what the technology was supposed to be for like this is this is the the juice of like why the thesis that exists behind blockchain behind the tech that we're all using I guess in this room on a daily basis um it you know this is before the the scams and the meme tokens and all that stuff came into play like do you guys feel that kind of energy in the the niches that you're working in honestly like I've been talking to some senior leadership from unver they used blockchain technology to make sure that they don't have any deforestation on their palmoil uni Unilever like the shampoo people shampoo people I just found out about Union lever the other day yeah to make like shampoos and beauty products in case anyone else doesn't know I I I don't know you shall buy them or not but like literally like 50% of Supermarket shells are occupied by either PNG or un liver and they use blockchain technology it's nothing about like a crypto actually but they use the technology to track the logistics but it's not only them like all large ports globally use the blockchain technology to track the shipment and logistic therefore like applying technology is one topic and making money off the technology is another topic and I think in crypto we are much more focused on making money through that technology and that's why technology becomes like a centerpiece of whatever projects we do while for example nfds died and Ticket Masters 60% of their back and ground on NFD but no one cares this is all facts about logistics too like some one of our partners that uh Max and I talk with on a regular basis is focusing on fixing the logistics issues in like delivering Goods uh it's like a $2 billion a year like uh in losses um industry so they're trying to utilize blockchain to help uh fix that uh don't need to derail but but go ahead uh Max um we were talking about uh your perspective around like the energy around all this The Vibes yeah I mean um my feeling is like like spending a lot of time in rwa in deep in space these days is um very interesting CU you see like um I always like in blockchain space building like real stuff related to like re assets or something that I can touch and see how it works and benefit like a mass mass adoption community on the other hand so so this is like what we see it's like really nice to have this type of conversation on the other hand you need Deion in a way because they drive adoption for many things you know because it's just this craziness going on although this is like hard for me to find the vibe within the you know although like we launched some different NFD collections in the past and stuff so I was very close with these people as well but so I tried to you know mingle with both and try to find like the balance in between but it's it's not easy sometimes DJ life balance from the confers that I had uh definitely among you know financial institutions they are way more interested in like tokenized Securities and they're like okay that makes sense like asset back tokens and uh it's it's way easier to actually talk with them once you say that you're into conization how it works that you know you have those like crypto rails or you know that kind of real world assets so I would say that definitely the sentiment changes once you actually try to you know pitch essentially to conization so um yeah big fan of it I'm you know living the dream with that kind of narrative cuz I genuinely uh believe in it you know like this is where it's supposed to be going you know so um I feel like there is only one thing that people are not really like aware of how like how different of asset classes we are actually talking about when we are talking about organization right because we talking real estate Financial assets but then for example um you know as a singularity net ecosystem we you know exploring different ways when it comes to uh tokenizing assets and GPU is just one of um many things that you can tokenize in terms of AI right so I'm very excited to see like you know how it grows because it's going to grow exponentially but like you know what kind of P establishing I I would just say I love to see this actually adoption coming and interest coming from institutional investors and also like we speak with a lot of family offices because we also tokenize some large real estate Assets in the US and this shift of the family offices being interested in investing on asset managers think invests in token asset because they see how simple it is right and like one year ago it was completely different now it's already moving forward we speak with the same people but we see already Shi in Minds right and it's been caused by the whole industry just moving to us that direction yeah facts uh I think the cool thing about Family offices too is like you get to the decision maker quicker than trying to talk to like a big uh institution right like and and um the other thing uh going back to like the the the the sex or you know the the appeal here when we go and talk to new friends and we want to onboard new people into rwa I think it's really easy for us to do it because you know you talk about real estate you talk about um what what what Logistics you talk about weather like you you can plug all of these things in into rwa or deepend and it makes it a very tangible use case for people you're not sitting there trying to convince someone how like an L3 is so much better than the l l than like the ethereum that they're using or you know some modular blockchain you know insert buzzword here you know it's like a it it makes it very tangible um which is still okay cuz you know there are different markets like the fact that we are not technical people doesn't mean that you know it's just everyone has the market and I think these are important things but more technical people right facts facts that's how it is yeah I'm why we have different personalities totally totally like that's why I love the the the real world component to it it makes sense to me I don't know and it seems like to you guys as well and I also want to like take a look at the crowd like we were I was here last year doing a rwa talk and there was maybe like 10 people in the room and I mean you guys can see the room is like quite packed um So within a just a I always do use e Warsaw as like a check in and you know it seems like over this last year I mean it's become so much longer even we've been doing Spaces by the way I'd love to invite you to um to spaces that we do if you guys are active on X um talking about RW and it's just been insane seeing the growth over the last six months I mean we used to have like maybe a 100 people show up listen in and and now it's you know we get easily between like 300 to 500 views on a weekly basis so um things are happening it's the scaling is coming um we have a few minutes if anyone has questions like we are way open to that um all right cool I'll I'll go run around so you guys can answer is that okay hi and thank you very much for the talk Jonathan here representing a family office question when it comes to um real world asset is that they are um fun like real world assets are non fungible so how do you bridge a gap between the fungibility of the tokens and the non and the non fungibility of the assets that you are uh having basically here I yeah I guess I'm going to answer so you're asking whether how we are dealing with fungibility and non fungibility of asset like I mean we if we're talking about for example T bills right then our tokens are literally erc20 right so there is no like additional logic behind this and essentially like one token has its nav value that we are you know updating so I don't know does that answer your question I think it was more like the question more relies in one building is the one building is is is different from the other one so that's what I mean by non fungibility on of real world I mean one t is one t so maybe I'm going to he the I I don't I don't think I clearly understand your question to be honest maybe let let let me clarify a bit like so basically like different buildings have different prices meaning that the pricing of the assets are not is not straightforward how do you answer this to this question and this is not um crypto related question but it becomes very much H it becomes a big question when you start Distributing those token to a lot of people okay you you first of all you have to think about asset and fractionality for example the way you will go and buy a hotel room right and a hotel rental every room will come with specific price it doesn't mean it's a nominal value for example you can get $100 worth and real estate portion or $200 worth of the real estate portion fraction will become on the value of the entire asset and then you will get returns based on the investment you have done depending on all the expenses for example you pay on 18% right annually but also non fungibility is about digital copies because when it comes to real estate you can have the digital copy of a building and it doesn't mean that it is an NFD for example you can have a digital twin of the building as a non fible portion where you will go and do different let's say one of the great examples that I know some companies do that where you have a exact digital tween of the building where you can do a lot of simulations whether to put a fire exit or what will be the things that can be done on that building or modifications and that has nothing to do with the building's actual price it's about how it will basically exist in the parallel world where you can do a lot of technical changes in there and then you can still fraction and share and sell it but this is two and they don't have to breach each other unless you are let's say an Architecture Firm or you are I know like in the Middle East almost all governments required these digital twins to do the approvals before uh like putting a building into the actual people moving in while in the most of the countries you need government agencies come and inspect an actual thing but in like advanced economies now they have like a buildings digital TN that exists you can do all the manipulations but the these two things doesn't have to come together last last thought because I want to respect other panels time but please go ahead I just wanted to add that there also interesting projects there one project in US called Building Inc and they build like uh like tokenization of data so when there are different types of large commercial buildings being built they tokenize every single data when this building is being built like uh like like I don't know air condition and then over the time of the years they can see the state and the condition of these buildings and based on that they can price it much better because usually you know when you buy a building for like 200 million it's usually discounted by like 20 or 15% because you don't know what's going wrong but with this type of data you can actually price it much higher if all is good and well maintained so this is also how you can actually provide so much value to the whole industry guys thanks so much we're out of time today clap it up for this lovely panel there's so much more here