ETHWarsaw 2023: Joanna Frota Kurkowska, G2A - Web3 Gaming - the mainstream perspective

uh hi guys uh I was I I'm very surprised that there are so many of you at this hour hour uh which makes it for a pretty interesting presentation um so I was I I was thinking that uh it's 4:30 everybody retired so I rather than like going very in depth in the topic I'll just go through like overall and leave you with one thought that I will leave for the for the end of my talk so uh we're going to talk about web free gaming but like uh out of our crypto bubble like the Dig bubble and I'm trying to focus on how the mainstream uh views blockchain gaming web3 gaming whatever you want to call it uh but there's some things uh some words about me I work at GTA I also worked at uh Altier Ventures when I uh was like Consulting different kind of startups there mostly gaming and entertainment uh so like what I'm going to present to you is like based on either the accelerator like my my experience from the accelerator or researching uh and researching mainstream gaming um so I was here last year Somebody went to my talk last year anybody ah there's one person great uh so I made some points uh some thoughts that I think came true maybe of some I didn't want to be come true but like they did either way I think like we went through through a period of very being very bullish into crypto gaming to a period when it's very pretty hard to like either manage a studio or you have to Pivot or you have to go the other way around which I'm going to talk about in a minute uh so uh I'm going to build a little bit on this like the state of uh of the gaming industry I did last year and going to like tell you uh little bit about how mainstream in my opinion and according to my research views our space basically um so the for the purpose of this presentation I prepared like a little bit of a distinction so we have web 2.5 gaming so you can download these games on even on App Store uh some of them are pretty pretty huge like nft Rivals if you if you don't know this like you should definitely research it uh you do not you don't have to use crypto for that like crypto is an add-on that you have you can use but you don't have to uh the other thing is web three gaming so this is like dig dig digit things like onchain gaming AKA autonomous worlds highly recommended if you're a researcher if you're dabbling in the gaming uh especially like onchain gaming uh autonomous worlds highly recommended research-wise business-wise currently it's it's a it's it's a pretty Niche Niche thing but in terms of like technology things like uh all the physics and rules being on chain I think current ly in the September uh 2023 it's the most interesting thing for uh for researchers to dig on uh and there's the third thing so it's like mainstream that's interested in web 3 so we have like gree we have Square Enix we have zingga and we have like Avalanche playing like uh also with with mainstream we have we have uh CCP games and what I'm going to like show you and like discuss a little bit more about is is that uh the third thing so uh I think everybody here are familiar with like gaming uh in terms of like uh the crypto thing but like what how the mainstream gaming how how much mainstream media like views us and uh I have like two parts of this presentation and the first one is Media versus the analyst so by media I mean the traditional media so if you read Kotaku if you if you read polygon uh uh what I did was like scan my RSS feed uh you you see here I still use RSS so this is like I'm pretty old uh in terms of like Gathering my information and this was like I did a scan like uh during uh I think during an after games conon it's like the biggest gaming conference in the world like there has to be some uh things about blockchain gaming in the mainstream press as you can see there's balers gate there's like uh Xbox thing it's Destiny 2 where is blockchain gaming like was it like non-existent and uh there are some people who were were at games like here so you can talk to them that that wasn't the case I'm going also to like make more points about it later uh but like what's pretty interesting for me is like the whole narrative the negative narrative the media uh the classic media have and like I think my favorite piece of piece of news was the the Square Enix one so like it if if you want to look at a example of how bad journalism is currently in regards to crypto gaming this is the Pinnacle of like uh bad Mo in crypto like uh the whole thing the the the whole thing about like Square Enix entering the space selling some of their IPs like Tom Ridder and apparently turning in if if to into uh crypto NFC Venture U was not very welcomed by the traditional press and I'm pretty much surprised because like gaming for me is always about looking for something new uh experimenting and like encouraging but we also get back to that and um the other thing is uh so the re the like the research layer I don't know if folks are familiar with either the construction fun or NAIC or even super used uh he's a great researcher a gaming research analyst and uh these these are not media sites the these are tradition additional uh research companies or groups even that uh they analyze gaming as such in a like more General way and what struck me very much here is that you can see I think this was I've taken the screenshots like week ago and you see that despite the fact that there's so much happening in a traditional space they are managing and if you go like way back into their like calendars and their uh their feeds uh you could see the are like writing about crypto and what I really love about their writing is that they praise uh good moves like from crypto companies for example uh good business- wise moves like Gala games partner with epic which for some folks was like uh Gala games is not like decentralized and they're partnering with this like centralized entity which is very evil Etc and they're they're they're pricing good decisions uh they're also uh I think very um very uh soundly look at this space like this is a great technology how can we use it how can you use it like to to enhance uh classical gaming traditional gaming right uh if you are building in your space uh the web three space gaming space especially I highly recommend like using this three resources uh to my sadness many of the teams I work with like uh gaming game developers even people within the entertain that wanted to like look at the at the traditional space were we're not familiar with this kind of uh sites and what's uh what's also interesting for me is that the the the the the quality and the amount of uh information is of high quality and as uh the saying goes the best price is for free most of them are for free and uh it's it's really interesting to see how people who are from outside our crypto bubble look at these kinds of like OPP at crypto gaming web 3 gaming web 2.5 gaming as an opportunity rather as a threet you might know from the media um the so so uh this is the summary of this section like so click bites iive well to my uh sadness basically uh analysts and researchers other people to follow like if you really if if you're like don't follow like the media sites uh maybe if you look for a media site that has a warmer approach towards uh towards uh crypto Venture beat uh would be the would be the the web page I would follow but apart from that it's it's rather icy cold um novelty is a controversial thing and I the my I think my favorite kind of example was when steam was released everybody I think he knows steam like if you're a gamer you have to have a steam account like right and uh if if you're uh if you remember uh everything that happened around steam like people were okay we're not going to buy like digital games boxes are the future are the are the thing this is not what happened like digital distribution is the key currently and uh but it was heavily criticized when it when it came also by by media right so I I see I can see a pattern here and in terms of the companies and in games uh there are two perspect like uh what I I also told you in the beginning so these are the companies that are uh entering the space and this is uh this is a fe I think I have to give a shout out for those guys both of these guys are on the conference and go and say hi to them and make business with them definitely uh but the uh my my main question was after after games gone was there any interest uh within the within the Gamescom Community like outside of our crypto wubble and these people are connected with like crypto gaming Etc and they told me yeah there was there like we were in in like there was lots of happening but when I asked people who are like traditional game developers people who like Works in sales Etc like no we haven't seen any of the crypto so I think that's also interesting point to make that you have to like either we're doing too little to be visible or maybe the traditional Gamers uh traditional companies are not interested however as you can see on the on the left side there are some companies that double and my two favorite examples uh maybe not favorite but like most uh interesting that I would love to see how it develops in the future are Zena and CCP games so basically why is that uh if you're over 30 and like what was on the first wave Facebook like gaming you have to know Farmville uh I I don't want to uise hands because it's like coming out I played Farmville Etc but I think many of you play played Farmville in a day right so Zinga has this like uh experience of novelty in gaming because as you remember Facebook gaming was not a popular thing and it wasn't threed like treated as a as a a real gaming because it was you know browser gaming uh but what Zinga has and what I'm pretty much interested what they will be doing with their Sugar Town game is they have great IPS on on uh in the rooster they have great experience with user acquisition and they have uh a great uh a great uh tradition in like user acquisition strategies Etc and playing with novelty right so Facebook gaming was a niche then it blew up and now we have like Mobile gaming etc etc so this is a thing to follow and I'm not saying that like zingo will change the world this will be the the killer app the the the platform that will bring the masses to to crypto to web 3 uh what I'm saying is that they might have some techniques uh or any other things up their sleeve uh that might be uh lucrative for the main audience and to bring them more and to maybe uh play a little bit with the mass adoption we all want crave right the other example is and this is totally geeky thing uh anybody here famili with if onlyl if onlyl or played it okay great I hope you have a life basically cuz I played it and I didn't uh so there the CCP games and if online is like this massive MMO it's in space like Space Opera themed uh it has a great economy um and it's uh in the past I used to use if online as an example for okay you don't need crypto for gaming e if online like it's awesome people have some ownership over their assets uh there's some money to earn you cannot do a legal payout uh but still like it's it's keeping people entertained and engaged right and all my arguments of this was like blown away when I just read the headline okay so a16z invested just $40 million in ccp's new game that is going to be on the blockchain so the funny thing is that CCP has a great in my opinion some my like opinions may vary they have a great uh experience uh of uh designing economies keeping player engaged but like uh not the mainstream player that zingga has so uh I think of I like to think of zing and sugar toown fville my mom playing like mobile games and she she always tells me I'm not a gamer but like every day there's an hour of mobile gaming right and here I I like to think of this like a nerd magnet that might be for the people who are heavy Spenders who are very much into the crypto space crypto gaming or in a gaming that you you have a like uh great economy uh if onlyl is also called an act like an axel game like it's a spreadsheet as a game I think it's my f favorite term uh I've heard about it and um this is why it's interesting for me it's it might be the nerd magnet the spender magnet for the for the masses let's call it the niche masses that we all need within the space uh and uh what else like that's I think the little bit of a summary from uh from me uh that there's New Perspective in gaming was always explored by developers if you look at Plateau gaming so like first multiplayer games uh in the late 1970s highly also please read about the Plateau system highly recommend that if you're into gaming history uh also great lesson in terms of like how Niche Solutions became mainstream um maybe one one way for the mass adoptions will be just of will be just the normalization of web three elements with either Sugar Town by all by Zinga or by CCP uh or maybe by other backend Solutions Competitive Gaming skill gaming Etc I think the future is not set in stone and what I also think it's the it's very interesting is that we have a bar market and uh even that we have a bare Market uh it's uh the Bulls of gaming are building like you have to admit that either square and CCP are companies that have uh experience and they pretty much like devoted to the space and the thing that I told you in the in the beginning the one thing I want you guys to guys and girls I want to remember remember um is that the traditional gaming companies are Al still trying right uh and if you're building in the space you really should dig deeper into the research web pages leave Kotaku leave like polygon I love those sites I visit them every day but like I If you want to do your research if you want to know the space more and if you want to like a build a product that is either web three game or like have web three elements you should look at the non-biased Sol like Solutions and sources to get inspired and you you should you should like put them in the context so either a context of like the uh web 2 games or like traditional Games Etc and without further Ado this is all from me so it was a pretty short talk but I'm open to questions either now or if you like catch me I'm Hilter till tomorrow and like maybe later so please catch me and just talk web3 gaming or or or gaming like let's nerd out basically thank you any questions thanks uh yeah thanks for the presentation I have two questions but I maybe ask them in order because they're kind of separate I would say um so one thing is that the thing that you mentioned that the attitude from media and from Gamers themselves is very often very much anti crypto you might think I mean it depends who you talk to depends on the region like one uh addition I've noticed Asia is much more warmer towards the crypto gaming like game is a game we don't care if it's tokens or like funny money actually that plays into my question because I was wondering do you think that why do Gamers even need to worry or or care if something is running on blockchain or not because you might say like even like you're using internet you're there are not many fans like oh it's working on tcpip or email is working on pop three exact but there are some there are there are some definitely yeah and uh and maybe the whole narrative that that's a blockchain game while the technology needs to be used for something right the whole idea that that the only idea that it works on the blockchain by itself doesn't really mean much and uh so I was wondering because my second question will be about actually what it gives to you right but a lot of games might be using blockchain for some reasons like trading cards Etc but maybe this is not something that the media narrative should be about that this is a blockchain game this is a card game right if they're using blockchain or not maybe it's not that important and do you think that for web 3 gaming in theory to succeed we actually should stop calling them web 3 gaming blockchain gaming and move forward with Narrative of this is just a game and maybe mention if someone is interested this is a blockchain game or not actually that's not how you see it going forward uh I think you answer it for yourself I believe that we shouldn't no it's it's very good it's a question that answers themselves are also cool uh basically I believe that we should stop the narrative uh but on the other hand people are sniffing around game Concepts like uh it's a it's not an example from the tra like from web 3 but recently there was a case recently like in the last six months um the developer uh old people will know the M serious there was this developer who who developed this like missed game very famous and now they like uh they released I think a couple of months ago a game that somebody started uh going into the credits and there was um AI mentioned they didn't mention it in the press released as everybody do because AI it's like the hottest thing now Etc and somebody was like you know uh making blog posts media caught on that o it's like AI gam so uh we shouldn't like use the the the words blockchain game Etc but people will know so and I unfortunately with all the things that I've showed you the The Click bites are alive basically and that's the saddest thing I think we should like uh we ask everybody here should focus on building like working with distribution which is another matter right and uh again it all depends on the region uh like from my personal like work I see for example uh the Asian region doesn't care like they're they're they're very uh game Savvy and they just want to like they want to play games they don't care like crypto Etc so yes this is my answer to your first question can you say the second question yeah so the second question is uh maybe a more technical a bit so the uh no okay maybe I'm wrong anyway so the question is uh so what blockchain as a distributed technology gives us is the ability to dis intermediate some processes for example you can so if you want to distribute a game you you're using steam or or other Epic Games Etc other stores in theory because to access anything outside of blockchain you need to centralize database where you actually check what you can download get some information blockchain is the thing that gives us ability to create smart contracts on blockchain or maybe on layer twos uh where actually it's viable so you could have in theory a steam on the blockchain which would be governed by smart contracts where people can publish their own games obviously rating and showing the games upper and lower and higher adding Stars comments Etc is the problem of itself but in theory you could see like a lot of these shops stores Etc could be uh replaced by autonomous contracts which wouldn't take 30% fee of your Games Etc and I'm wondering first of all do you think this might happen and if and the other one is do you think that established uh entities on the market are actually worried I don't think they are very worried right now but maybe they will start getting worried once we get the technology to the point that they will see that wow we are not necessary anymore I mean how do you see the future with blockchain in terms of these business people who actually are intermediating all the processes uh the future is always uncertain so I cannot tell you how I see the future I can tell you how I see like different versions uh the first question was about the building new versions of steam that are that are steam uh like steams for blockchain right actually steam own blockchain which is not owned by any company it's just smart contract I don't want to tell you how much uh like investment speeches I've heard and seen on Steam on blockchain the one thing people I don't think either forget on or don't know is that steam wasn't like a sole entity this that came and and like okay uh steam was built as an addon to Counter Strike and they had the whole user base I thought it was half life to Half Life to either either either Counter Strike yeah you might I'm not the FPS person I suck at Orange Boxes 2 and steam but the the problem is that they had a user B that they could convert every game that uh you know there are that are some interesting projects like there was alra there was hash up Etc but I I don't see the Killer game that would be like a magnet so that is my answer like I'm I'm not saying it's possible uh like no sorry it's impossible uh I'm saying that it's very hard to do in terms of distribution also steam has like a uh I'm trying to put myself in the shoes of an average Joe gamer or Gene whatever uh in in terms of like Steam for uh for blockchain I would have to like have a wallet of course there are solutions like magic Etc after a whole day at work and I have my steam deck or a computer Etc I just want to sit down click and I have my library of games that like 500 titles and uh blockchain makes me more of a digger and a person that has to have an effort which is not a bad thing but it's uh it's aimed for a very specific niche of gaming and can you repeat the second question or there was no no this was the second question you answered thank you thank much thank much great uh do we have uh someone else for a question okay hey um I just have a comment um as a game developer publisher I wouldn't mind actually to pay 30% fee to get the users board to my web you wouldn't mind sorry paying for I wouldn't mind because um think about it we currently don't have a centralized place where all the games are so how do we acquire users on boarding users is extremely expensive in the web tree and I think this is one of the biggest problems that we are facing right now um if the users actually are starting to understand what we are selling I think they will jump on it question but at this moment it's extremely impossible due to the media due to the B out that we are getting so 30% I think it's fair deal at this at this time I'm not saying it is not like there there are solutions uh I don't want a name drop uh maybe I will there's for example fungies that iio that you probably know if you're a developer that offer like Alternatives uh but I think um it all comes down to ma maths and ex your your axle skills like how can you do a spreadsheet how much you earn from a game you pay your team you pay for for the cost Etc so if you're okay with 30% and steam doesn't ban you CU steam is not in favor of blockchain gaming epic stor is I don't see the problem like I I don't have a I think gaming is gaming I've been a gamer for like 30 years and I love gaming I I like you know experimentation new forms of gaming Etc and if a game developer doesn't seem a problem I don't think it's a problem for for for ex but on the other hand there's a whole uh there's a whole uh for example region southeast Asia where they are very price sensitive the purchasing power is different so for example 7% versus 30 for those developers it's a huge cut so I think it's all comes down to individual preferences yeah I think so um I stay in Asia for 20 years so I'm very good with understanding that you know I think just that concept with in the blockchain as uh us as developers that we are trying to you know Skip the fees but you know thinking oh Google is Bad Apple is bad all of them are bad you know but the at the end of the day we need to do marketing and I think we need to accept that there's a cost to it some cannot but you know it's again it depends uh okay uh one more last question in the back yeah I see uh okay yeah thanks it was a very nice presentation so my question is like uh on your opinion as like like a researcher in the space what would it take to change this narrative and like from from what let's say platform like and kind of game it would be like since you mentioned two games like like one is more like a casual mobile one and other one yeah so what's what's on on your perspective how it's going to be in the ideal world when I would be the king of the market I would say Okay visual visual novels and in the Dungeon Crawlers should be the mainstream but unfortunately I am not and I see the market for what it is uh I think the success of a Infinity was there for a reason because people love trading cards trading trading monsters trading trade just trade in-game trading right and in my opinion I think what will catch on it might be either a game that is very Community oriented so it's not a single player game uh and my bet would I would put my bet on mobile or cross platform that it would be uh and of course adding from my like personal also love so it would it would come from Japan basically but I don't know if it will basically awesome uh thank you very much as and uh uh big round of [Music] applause