ETHWarsaw 2023: Gaming Panel - Is Web3 Gaming Under-hyped?

one two hello everyone hey at Farm how's going how you are all good and enjoying uh ADH or so so far great great good food yeah first big thanks that you take a time to uh to join us and uh discuss about the gaming is it under hypet over hypet let's discuss about it and let's figure out um maybe we can also discuss about the bond between you know this uh what is happening right now this traditional gaming and the traditional gaming and and web free gaming uh but first of all I would like to introduce myself shortly I'm miab Bacha co-founder of metapro and CEO a metapro uh gaming um uh ecosystem U Marketplace uh uh wallet environment for releasing and listing the games and the gaming asset and uh joining me today areon Cera from Olympics and Lucas P from um dark verse guys you want to share with us few words about yourself yeah I'm Tom capera CEO of Olympics uh Olympics is an infrastructure to build host and monetize competitive skill games bringing engagement to web through gaming that's just briefly uh yeah I'm Lucas I'm head of blockchain economy in the project project called derse and this is the like RPG game built with unreal 5 and Al zero blockchain all right because we got only 30 minutes to cover all this uh wild and massive topics so just uh let's b roll loing and uh start discussing about the sub project subtitles which I prepare for prepared for you so the first my question is um about is it truly the web free gaming a game changer for for gamers and game developers because this is what we are seeing on the market it's mostly kind of MVP um and I think it's a proper time to to put on the table this uh this question uh have we got a real value for the gamers and for the game developers and what is your experience on on the F guys want to start look no no all right so I think the answer is yes okay that's for short and uh just expand on that uh in terms of game developers in that group uh I believe that blockchain brings finally a new ways on how to monetize games that's one so uh you know instead of preparing for months the publishing or you know bringing your games to steam making everything looks and works perfectly you can easily build a game and start monetizing that within your community with the use of smart contracts just you a couple of examples that we are doing with Olympics is just you know monetizing decentralized tournaments or duels or bringing lead boards are part of the monetization strategies with the use of blockchain you can do it immediately and instantly um so that's you know one of these uh kind of features right the other thing is that especially in Competitive Gaming that's our field uh blockchain can be like a really great resource for ringing security so uh that's something that builds a lot of trust around a studio even though it's like a starting Studio small Studio or just in a bunch of Indie developers that are building games they can use blockchain as a security right so that's one thing then for the players itself uh whole variety of different experiences obviously you know asset ownership and being you know independent on like big game day Studios uh they can move their assets as their owners that's one of these maybe look expand more on that from the perspective of players in Competitive Gaming uh this is like again whole bunch of new experiences being able to uh jump into the decentralized Esports tournament something that was normally available for like Pro players now can be organized in a decentralized way so that's one of these examples so I think there's like a lot of use case being built actually after the first run and you know Play and Learn Trend we are now seeing more and more like mature use cases like more relevant use cases of blockchain in gaming uh but it's going to evolve it's not like uh there like set in stone and that's what we have it's going to last as you said most of it is still like an fvp right uh and and it's going to it's going to evolve look because okay um so I will take um a bit different approach because uh Tom explained quite lot how actually uh it can be gamechanging but for me question is like how to do that actually because um from the site of uh like game designers game developers uh this traditional game developers actually they uh are not trust to blockchain yet I mean they don't know how to build it so we need actually simpler solutions for game developers like like out from the box they can actually integrate the game with and this is like also what what they doing um uh like we for the players from other hunt we need to create good games because we obviously know that uh many uh blockchain games wasn't so good design yet I mean the first the first let's say wave was was uh actually quite poor game design so we need actually good games which will be competitive with uh with the actually traditional games they will like attract the the players and the Players let's say will just be is something that small Studios average I mean middle mediumsized Studios will see and they will start making more and more um uh blockchain games uh yeah we need to be actually uh we we need we should realize that um triaa Studios will be not the first to adopt this actually um web 3 because they making money on selling you repeatedly same and same things like FIFA cards or like you know like skins which actually um you you can't later sell sell at least legally so yeah for me the challenges actually because game changing is for sure but we need to convince two groups of people game designers game developers and the players itself I can agree to that that is like a huge challenge in the same time I think like ourselveses like I mean not the Olympics but uh the the market itself um that's how I Define it just got over over excited uh for what the technology can bring and the first initial um kind of move was how to make more of the monetization thanks to blockchain maybe gaming was desperately looking for alternatives to free toplay and other models and uh that was like a low hanging fruit uh it failed as we all know and now and now it's like a process of having that more mature so this is this is like a big challenge now like what to what to actually do to not only focus on like toomics on like monetizing instantly but just to bring some uh evolutionary more than Maybe reol AR steps into enhancing gaming with the web3 tech here this is why I'm looking on the market From perspective of platform which is which listed the games and gaming CET is a user acquisition and um maybe it's more the question to you Tom um about the Mon Mon monetization um of the user in in web free gaming because from my perspective it's a game changer so uh this is what we are not seeing on tradition gaming industry so so far how to monetize game using web free game Gamers monetization um in the games and how to use the competitive games um uh in in those aspect and I know that you are representing two different um views so you deliver to the market engine for for the scenario like this you are using different scenarios and creating some user acquisition in your own way so umbe we can discuss a little bit more about this user acquisition and and monetization yes so user acquisition was one is one thing then user monetization is the other thing right so they're like you know separate strategies in terms of Dem monetization let's focus on this one like I give you just a very simple example with the use of blockchain like there's three of us on a panel sitting right so let's imagine we just pulling our uh mobile phones right and we just join the common game that it be like a casual game like I don't know minute or two of a gameplay but prior to the game I set up that there is a participation fee right like I don't know $5 like all of us connect the wallet right and if you want to participate like just deposit like five usdc okay and then let's imagine that you might won okay then uh at the end of the game play instantly you get like a price pool from us right and that's how you can um uh win uh like a real money reward within the competitive gameplay that's one of the scenario but on the other hand it's deducted with some transaction fee for the game developers so it's like a mutually beneficial monetization model with the use of blockchain just happens instantly on the contrary to many of the you know leaderboards and tournaments where it all looks good on the surface but then you speak to the pro players and they tell you that you know they receive the rewards like after month or two or three or even more right so blockchain brings this beauty of like instant delivery of these rewards and kind of having this model of competitiveness monetization available for like all game developers so that's just just one of the examples I'm just curious uh about Lucas uh and his kind of thoughts yeah okay um so we are making game so we have a bit different like approach than than Olympics but like uh when it comes to user acquisition uh when it comes to like Gamers because for now um crypto games attracting mostly like people who are a bit into crypto they know how to you know like uh make a wallet and you know like do transactions they have accounting exchanges and so on and uh for me actually and I'm saying this always when I on the conference the goal of web 3 is to disappear I mean you know to be invisible technology so um to to to actually Acquire The Players especially those from mainstream uh we need to make web tree to disappear and to like the the like uh enter to to the web tree gaming should be easy same as it's on to online gaming traditional so um not all players will need noncustodial wallets some of them who are more focused on privacy on ownership they will they will do uh but some of them will need some easier onboarding so the easy on boarding is one of the most important thing for for us to acquire the more players uh from outside the let's say the the the the crypto um uh to scale and uh when it comes to monetization um like this is everything comes to you know the fair monetization because like the what is not fair nowadays in in many games that games are made like unfinished and uh like people paying for these games they can't give it back um the the the um like uh monetization is aggressive but actually brings like sometimes no value for people or if they invest time in their games they can't actually get this money back even fraction of it so when it comes to um blockchain games when you have ownership and you play MMO game like 200 hours and you like level scale up your uh Cor or you buy the items or you actually find them like kill a boss something drops out you can later sell it you can later like let's say monetize this time a bit from not it will be not only entertainment it will be also just the some kind of benefit you you can just sell to the new player who coming to the game and this will be INF the infrastructure will be provided so this will be much easier um but yeah I hope this is the the the way to monetize and oh yeah one more thing is the there is generation gap in my opinion like young players who playing usually Roblox or fortnite they are really open to buying like skins and then there are you know like old players who are like let's say 30 40 years old now who already know this like traditional games from the past they really like don't like any additional content so actually we can't convince them let's say we should focus on this new generation which are even without the blockchain you know try like really open for for actually additional payments and monetization they're okay really really fine with that thanks that you touched this uh topic about The Gamers on boarding in in the games I think it's um the biggest challenge for for us for holding industry not only for gaming but also for defy and other platform which are dealing with web free I'm a web free maximalist so I'm always looking for solution how to onboard traditional user Gamers uh using web web free as a web free uh but I know that a lot of uh projects looking for something like 2.5 for half or something like this and uh looking for some solution which is half half web free and traditional on boarding on the games what is your opinion guys um on which side you are for sure I'm on on the side of web free but maybe you not agree with me and you can can discuss about it so definitely Olympics is on both sides right so our primary value proposition is all about building skill games effectively right and bringing that opportunity for everyone so both web 2 Studios and web 3 Studios right but every single game built on us is blockchain ready so there is a a trick here kind of a bridge uh so we are waiting for web to developers when they match your and of you know get to the point when they want to switch to more of the web 3 component and with every single game built on Olympics they can actually you know start plugging in different uh components from our partners or start monetizing on on chain right that's one thing we're trying to serve as a bridge bringing them something that they enjoy today and they can explore even further in the future right so that's one thing the other thing is as I mentioned out the monetization side and that's what uh kind of circles back to what Luke said uh I think still that blockchain should be more of an underlying technology okay so for the crypto natives that's for sure let them connect the wallets and just you know um use demonetization strategies but I don't see a single reason why shouldn't we in the future start on ramping Fiats and uh like provide like a you know unified experience for non- Crypton natives uh so definitely we will be pursuing the path of covering both web 2 and web 3 worlds and we are like big Believers of blending these worlds yeah yeah so um in my opinion like you know this is the like temporary uh we actually now in this like you know I I also prefer web 3 like uh because this gives some advantages but actually um we actually we need to scale to people who are still not Crypton native who don't know that so this web 2.5 how how do you want name it it's actually the time when we will scale it we make it easier for people but on the end when actually whole industry grows and uh like uh people will start being aware of how it works the technology gets more friendly that on the end people end up being all web three native same like you know um like my grandma she don't know how to use Smartphone when like 20 years ago now actually I see many like old ladies using smartphone easily so actually they are like already smartphone native and this transformation will just go and uh I can say that for me the like web three technology is like Evolution more because um especially in the gaming uh in the gaming side because um the game is uh not the like only technology game is a medium and actually this is like you know like uh something which uh not only 01 um just people have different feelings when they playing games uh sometimes uh like creators thinking the game is good rer the reviews say totally different so um the adaptation actually will take time yeah this is this is the like why we should uh communicate things changes and uh like people slowly adapt everyone in his uh speed yeah I'm compared this stage of we are right now to very early stage of of Internet when set uping your computer or your email was a challenge for for for most of the people so in your opinion right now it's a rather the user more user friendly UI uh in gam send up and uh use their flow or it's rather you know teach them Gamers how to use it and uh convince to to switch to this maybe a little bit switch it they mind uh to use web free instead of uh traditional games so how you are dealing with I know that you are on both sides so Olympics is deing also with with web two and web three games so maybe it's not a huge challenge for you but well like just speaking of the web 3 side I think um like even before or prior to onboarding players to web 3 you should convince web developers to start using the beauty of the technology right so I remember speaking with many developers like you know at Gamescom at GDC and like these big gaming conferences the very first moment they hear like you know NFD or whatever like something related to uh web3 gaming they're just you know 95% of them are oh no no no I'm not touching it but then in the second attempt when we explain to them like how in a native approach we Implement blockchain for security for settlements Etc they start to be open right but you know they are the ones who take care on the user acquisition or the Publishers but still we need to convince them first in order to be able to effectively onboard uh players that's our belief yeah yeah so I agree with Tom um actually we need education and what is beautiful about uh web three gaming in generally like uh like crypto projects uh it's actually community and this is like uh all many projects are Community focused this connection it's much deeper than in traditional games of course they are like uh traditional games which which actually have also their really good connection with the communities and on the end such games are usually much better than like games which doesn't care about Community feedback during the development the good example is the lately the balers Gate 3 which actually was two years in the Early Access and uh such game makes actually um like really good Improvement so for me this actually um convincing the developers uh which which making traditional games uh it's it's actually like the education but also so for players if we already gain them to join our Discord server or any Community Place uh by making them easier on boarding uh later we can use this place our marketing team to educate them and they will switch to web3 full and uh you know they will happy from using this technology what it offers so yeah all I can say is like you know we experienc that at all the conferences big players are coming I mean like you know we let lately just we spoke with company called weate maybe some of you you know them they're from Korea like you know the companies hiring like 1,700 people and onethird of that team is on web three site okay they're move they're making like bold moves and they're not just you know the only one so there's a lot of traffic coming whether you like it or not yeah about the big players my next question which I prepared for you was about the direction of web free gaming uh is a mobile desktop or or browser but uh just a few moment before we start the panel I readed um the news about the Avalanche that they released uh the first web free game on PlayStation and uh in my opinion it changed a little bit this uh this topic so is it a changer for us or not should we looking on this and figure out maybe it's a time when the triaa and big players come to the market and uh you know what's your opinion and and how you are feeling uh dealing with um developers and Publishers uh companies which are preparing uh the games right now I know that mostly it's a small games it's a small public the markets is build it by the small Publishers just as several triple ablea uh games on the market but maybe um opening the door on the platforms uh um change a little bit this uh view looking at the statistics I think like mobile segment is you know growing and will be growing with the with the growth of and capacity of the internet uh you know multiplayer games on mobile is something that is becoming pretty much natural and normal and we see a lot of movements in skill gaming in Mobile right uh uh so so that's one thing uh I wouldn't say like you know any of these uh platforms is going to be left behind uh for any reasons like you know um also on desktop why not but like my bet is like mobile is going to get more and more of attration there why is that you know it's easy to access you can play whenever you want especially when you have like a casual games that can be built faster so we can see more of the experiments like the feedback loop is faster for the AAA games I think you know some of them that started to be built like you know maybe last year or two years ago you start to see the results and they will be coming that's for sure but you just you know see them upcoming in the years right when in terms of the numbers there will be way more of more casual titles and I you know rather associate it with uh more on the like traffic on mobile so that's that's my bad um so we are building a double a game and the time development of such game is around 3 four years so this is like hard from the perspective of uh like web 3 because this is really Dynamic like uh and uh everything changes so quickly so like until we finish the game there will be already massive changes in adaptation of this technology in like ideas how to use it um so um I think in the like mobile market like Tom mentioned actually the you building much faster you can iterate much faster um this is why the um the bigger budget titles will not join this this so quickly um but of course like something like PlayStation joining this is a really good idea in my opinion actually opening like for for more for more casual and like more traditional players um I can only say that like I'm tracking for example company called Square Enix is famous from from producing Trad traditional games but they try to do on the nfts and on on web three games uh they create uh mobile game uh which which which they advertising on Twitter and uh like the case is only that uh bigger company is they have bigger problem with adaptation not only from the um this this difference like how how actually time development is it's long but also that uh the monetization way is different uh between the blockchain games and and traditional games and uh they need to build such skill and uh why I'm saying I mean I'm quite sure about that because I know people who create the like successful nft collections uh which later they um add many features to it and and successfully sell uh and from other hand there many people who come from them from big companies like big Brands fashion brands who want to repeat this success they can't because they are not crypto native so for sure it's easier for all crypto native game developers to succeed in this market than to be like big publisher and trying to you know change into being the um like web3 developer but sometimes for big publisher it's much difficult to join to the new technology because it's you know the B effort and uh they need to reserve some bigger resources inside of the huge company and structure um so sometimes it's much easier for smaller companies to to start switching to to web free uh Tom what's your opinion how you see what kind of the games and developers mostly cooperating with you with your company and building it's a mobile or it's a desktop it's a it's a browser games I know that the platform is uh not right now on your on on on the market is is a very fresh news so which directions right now the most people are I don't see like a you know very clear pattern uh be it like you know 100% of them are mobile or something I would rather say size-wise they're rather like the teams of like a small me game Des Studios because what we bring to them is something that was not accessible for a variety of reasons starting with the complexity of the process and you know costs that normally they need to take so we open up like a new opportunity um doesn't mean that we are not talking to like you know bigger Studios but like the best customer here and who is moving in the fastest way uh are the smaller Studios and relating to what you said for the like big players they need as you said like dedicate more of the resources make like a more concentrated bed they have a lot of you know compliance overhead but what they do what we see they're just buying smaller Studios and experimenting under the cover of some brands that you never know that you know Sony is doing something because they just bought you a bunch of different Studios and they're just using them for experimenting that's how they learn that's how the big players learn and that's what we see is happening as well and probably the last question of our panel to you Lucas what the direction of metaverse right now oh yeah okay yeah I mean this is my uh like metaverse is my favorite buzz word because like um everyone imagine different different thing when it's he about it and and uh like obviously we are quite far from uh rear player one uh level um uh even actually their VR it's exploding and there other like motion capture technology get get smaller and easier but uh like for me um and this is what uh what approach we we we we choose in uh in our game is actually building the good game first with good game mechanics and later adding the social features uh which will expand the like gaming experience and the social features this will be the first metaverse because this is already what it's now uh happening in in this field so so there is a connection of the game mechanic something you know like really interesting to get into it um like story driven uh like some quests and things and then like soci social features which are metaverse just one 30 second comment absolutely just I had a chance to speak with yeah I had a chance to speak with Sebastian he's he's a co-founder of uh sandbox as you you uh might know and I know that they're working on bringing competitive experiences into metaverse they see that they need to do something with with within the metaverse to bring users that's one thing and to make the users stick to the metaverse right so that's what they do they do have challenges though and this is what we see is happening within other metaverses as well so they're thinking how to bring these different you know maybe mini games maybe some other experiences to bring people in to bring something that uh will make uh these users stick to the metaverse so this is like the biggest challenge and and gaming is playing playing an important role there okay thank you guys that you join me thank you for your time and have a good time on after party and other panels thank you thank you thank [Applause] you