Discussion Panel: The Future of Blockchain

um so hello everybody on the on the live stream um can you write something in chat because we are really curious if we can get questions from you in real time so that would be awesome to know if anybody is listening um and other than that let's uh let's get rolling i think we will be about 45 minutes oh sorry i can't hear him are you on a treadmill yeah yeah yeah i want to be honest cool let's let's round of interest uh my name is chris and i'm only moderating so i'm only asking questions because i want to learn from all the amazing people that we have on the panel and today on the panel we have martha who is right now on the treadmill and also in uk marta what what are you up to like professionally and stuff do do you want to say a couple of words um well what i'm up to professionally other than walking um there's a full-time job uh i am uh head of uh community at balancer labs uh so i'm leading all of the efforts to build a strong community and educate our whole ecosystem uh to then be able to create a dow since balancer's mission is to become a doubt in the next three years prior to that i've been in permission blockchain space so please don't kill me i also touched that and prior to that i also wasn't bitcoin so uh all sorts of things always have been in that space basically cool where are you and you know what are we up today today are we still talking uh are we still talking about here or do we do we change people peter can you hear me oh yeah i can hear you asking that tomorrow no no no i i so i i think i broke up for a second but i was asking peter like where are you and what are you up to today today we'll talk longer about how we got into this space and yeah like sort of yeah yeah uh i'm in sydney australia right now stuckey t is mostly uh investing in the early stage networks at uh 1kx yeah uh probably one of the most uh hands-on uh early stage investors in the space pretty cool thank you for jumping on uh in the middle of the night i guess and uh patrick how about you what are you up to day today and where are you right now yeah a lot of stuff i mean like everybody going a million miles per hour in this space uh so my name is patrick i'm a developer advocate uh on the chain link protocol um chain link being a decentralized oracle service uh taking data from the real world bringing it on chain or doing any type of external computation or really just taking these smart contracts and empowering them and taking these blockchains and leveling them up to do even more uh and help the world in in fantastic ways so uh everything that i do in my day to day everything that i touch everything that i interact with i do to help engineers in this space be wildly successful so whether that's from creating tutorials you know uh doing stuff like this where we're talking to engineers being on hackathons helping out uh hackathon attendees uh helping out uh you know engineers who are creating their startups who are who are long established or in any way shape or form uh i'm here to make them successful very cool very cool so so i think our audience today are mainly people who are just getting into blockchain and like chat do let us know if this is not the case so we are going to try to cover what the future of the blockchain is maybe very briefly because like one year three years out like it's probably gonna be big like the whole internet thing but um i i don't know if you know exactly we can we can like do some crazy speculations about that but i think it would be super useful if we covered like what's the future of the blockchain for our participants like how can you get in how did we get in you know what are the good steps to start developing and make sense of all of it um so so maybe let's let's do a round of like you know how did you how did you get into space and why do you think this is interesting at all and this time we can start with uh patrick yeah sure so i got into the space um someone recently well a year and a half i guess maybe i'm dinosaur i get i don't know krypto moves fast a year is probably a long time uh yeah maybe a year and a half almost you know getting close to two years now i was actually working in kind of the more traditional fintech world i had worked at a hedge fund uh for a couple of years and then after that i was uh at a data provider a financial data provider you know getting like pricing data for different uh securities different stocks and um i started learning more about smart contracts and i was intrigued because uh especially in the fintech world there are a lot of issues around you know who owns what you know where data can go where data can't go who has access to what financial products and there's just a lot of issues in the traditional world and so i started learning more and more about smart contracts and i was kind of blown away um i i started going deeper and deeper into this rabbit hole of this world where holy wow like you know they're all this decentralization kind of this dispersal of power kind of this shift in paradigm that shift in the way kind of we think of you know monetary policy uh agreements you know trustless uh trustless agreements versus you know trust high trust agreements and yeah i was blown away and um you know chain link obviously having come having me come from you know a more traditional data background a more traditional kind of fintechy background um it just made a lot of sense right because in order for these smart contracts to really go from being kind of these walled gardens right to coming into you know into everyday use into smart contracts that can help everybody in every way you know they need data and they need highly highly validated highly uh decentralized data in order to keep kind of these these key metrics that make smart contracts more contracts which keep them decentralized keeping them auto executing etc and so that's basically how i got into the space and uh every day i go i dig a little bit deeper down the rabbit hole and just you know just love it more and more um and yeah i like to play with pretty much any time any any protocol comes out with a tool or a feature or a product you know i'm i'm trying to jump on it i try to learn i try to code it myself that way i can teach other people how to you know come on you know whether they're brand new and so this is for a lot of you guys who are new here you know whether you're brand new uh whether you've been in this space for years you know there's always a ton of stuff to learn there's always a ton of great people to sync with uh and there's a ton of tools and it sounds like we're gonna be going through a couple of some of those uh resources today so uh yeah just everyday learning and growing into in a hundred percent amped about it super cool so what was it was it difficult transition let's dig deeper into that so what what tech stack we're dealing in with uh the sorry the hedge fund what what what how did your transition look like well so that was i was doing more python development um which i still i absolutely love python i still code i try to do python for all my uh all my projects like all my personal projects there's a uh for those of you you know looking for the uh for the next tool there's a smart contract a development platform or framework called brownie i absolutely love it i tweet about it all the time because it's in python and so it allows you to kind of do all your testing and automation in python but you know still code your solidity smart contracts in like a really uh sensical way so i do a lot of stuff with with brownie so um so that part was pretty easy but i i did i have uh i have learned a lot of javascript because a lot of the space still uses kind of like javascript frameworks like hard hat like truffle uh which is still really good but um i to me the hardest part actually not even like tech wise was kind of like wrapping my head around the new paradigm like okay like wait wait why does this work like this or why is this protocol better or why why does why did they do it like that because in a traditional world you know everything's just a centralized server and you can kind of just be like well that's just the way that they did it but with having all the code be on chain having all the code be auditable by everybody um kind of trying to understand you know where uh where the use cases are to me that like conceptually that was the harder part um because when you think of you know you think oh okay everything's decentralized um somebody put it to me really humorously once they were like oh a lot of people think that this is just some kind of like uh movement where you know nothing actually is gonna happen happen because there's no like economic incentives behind everything but to me there's actually more economic incentives and more reason to get in um a lot of people think okay if you're giving you know power back to the people then you know a lot of big players don't want to get in i i disagree i think this is creating a wealth of financial opportunities um you know from your decentralized agreements to any type of d5 product uh and so yeah to me the harder transition was actually the conceptual piece but once yeah once i fell down that rabbit hole you know there was no going back everything just made a ton of sense and um and yeah and one of the cool parts technology-wise is i have had to and got to learn a whole bunch of technologies right because this whole space uses so many different technologies right like solidity obviously it's massive because it's you know main language that people build smart contracts with but it's more than just solidity there's a lot of tools around solidity for example you know brownie hardhat truffle these are python and javascript frameworks for testing you know and automating your smart contracts which is which is great so you you know get to learn some python get to learn some javascript i work a lot with go uh because a lot of the chain link core code is written in go so i got to i got to learn go and i learned you know kind of all the ins and outs of go which is really cool uh rust is another language that's really popular in space polkadot solana um and uh there are a couple other chains that are using these low-level you know these lower level languages to make their blockchains go really really really fast so uh to me it's it's hasn't been so hard there has been a transition period for from having to quickly like swap around languages um but yeah it to me maybe that's the one of the other harder transitions is like learning all these technologies but the other thing is you don't even have to like if you want to do solidity and hard hat or just just pure solidity you can't right you don't have to learn a million languages but for me because i'm trying to help everybody you know i want to know everybody i want to know everything so i can have everything but uh yeah no it's uh to me the really hard part is is conceptually and then once you get past that you're you're good to go where do you go like you know short version is like you're a developer you you're just jumping in like where do you go on the internet to start learning about the stuff and like be up to speed in the weekend or in a week do can you do it in a weekend or do you need like seven months to get started as a developer in the space great question so i my first time coding solidity was actually at east denver um two years ago now or a year an excellent event yeah one of the last event before the lockdown started yes yeah exactly one of the i i i entered the space like right at the right time and at east denver i took pretty much the whole weekend to like code um i basically that weekend i was like okay i'm gonna learn solidity this weekend and um yeah that's that's when i learned solidity uh i did it in the weekend uh i mean and same with any programming language but you can like learn it in a weekend but you can't learn it in a weekend i mean i'm still learning stuff every day like that's new about solidity uh it's really just time behind the wheel yeah um with any language you know the longer you do it the better you get i i would say i learned the basics in a weekend and then i got decent well yeah i i mean maybe that's being uh not humble enough but i got much better much more comfortable in like six months or something like that but yeah you can learn this stuff really quickly especially if you have a little bit of previous programming experience if you don't have any that's also fine uh to answer your other question so there are tons of spaces out there if you literally just google learn solidity you've got a ton of great resources i think there's some great courses on udemy if you're looking for a paid course uh uh free code camp has some great courses dap university has great ones ivan on tech has some great courses uh and there's a ton of free content as well co um crypto zombies uh if you're looking for a free course that kind of gamifies the crypto zombies it's fantastic if you're looking at some of the security some of the in and out ethernot uh is a great game uh there's a there's uh consensus has a coding bootcamp which is really good uh chain shot also has a great coding boot camp um so there's there's really just tons of different um tons of different places to learn and grow uh and then what i would say uh to kind of go one step further because what a lot of what times what happens sometimes when a lot of people start their engineering journeys is they get caught in what's called like boot camp hell uh where they just go like boot camp tutorial tutorial to tutorial they don't actually learn anything um and i would say for those who kind of stuck in that just take the step join a hackathon to me that's really the next step join a hackathon build a project on your own because that's really where you're gonna stumble and you're gonna you're gonna run into issues and that's when you'll connect with community members you know like myself like people other people in the community uh and really connect so uh so some great places for that are you know the chain link discord uh obviously uh you can jump in there and there's a ton of good youtube videos on the the chain link youtube uh we do a ton of um demos on you know obviously showing how to work with oracle's but smart contracts in general uh and you know i have some youtube videos as well and uh yeah there's just there's there's a ton of resources but definitely join a hackathon definitely join a community uh and definitely you know reach out and say hello very cool very cool thank you thank you patrick yeah this is excellent advice like and uh i guess people in the chat right now are attending a hackathon so they're headed in the right direction excellent boot camp over the weekend um austin griffith who has some excellent uh excellent really excellent material to get up to speed on ethereum development will be we'll be doing a session tomorrow i guess so this is this is super great uh let's switch gears a bit let's switch gears a bit peter how about you you're less on the development side more on the investment side and like you know creating the outside like would love to listen on like how did you get into space because your path was slightly different and i guess there are different lessons there yeah sure um i spend most of my day talking to new founders trying to build like new token networks right uh or and either that or sort of like helping portfolio projects uh with mostly a lot of the community development so this is like all these challenges around you know uh how do you launch a token network how do you uh go ahead and build a community of contributors around that right so that's sort of what i think about a lot um and i guess like my path is a bit it you know sort of this complete outside i think you know four years ago where i was actually a ux design for the you know like as a as sort of like my main trait right i mean sort of thing i did uh and i think like four years ago back you know there weren't any uses or nor were there any sort of real products out there so as a designer you you know you couldn't really contribute to the space too much uh so just like you know i helped out whenever i could i i wrote documentation for projects i liked you know uh like mastering ethereum i learned by reading and doing like editing you know like literal grammar and spell checking for that uh project right um i contributed to different open source projects like as a non-technical non like you know someone who's not from the engineering not from an engineering background and so just like country different ways and that's how i learned a lot about the space i try to understand about the history of like really like you know i guess the context of where blockchains come from you know the different you know i try to really understand sort of the historical context of like you know like like i i didn't come from like i didn't come from a computing background so i try to understand like computing itself the history of computing and like how did the internet worked how computers worked and like why that you know why why blockchains do matter in that sense right um then slowly i sort of just started contributing to projects mostly as like a pm or like operations person um and that's where i started helping out with a working group around folks around using user user-facing application layer infrastructure known as meta transactions right um and just so it contributed to working groups coordinated research groups mostly like operations person i didn't really understand really a lot of the discussions that were happening to be honest like i just i was sort of piecing it together and learning by osmosis um and you know by but but the interesting thing was like i kind of use like i sort of use my like designer mindset to frame everything and in the point of the from the point of the user right and like i saw a lot of uh i saw things like technologies through that lens um that uh community became uh known as metacartel so um that you know was mostly i think one of i would say the earliest uh community in ethereum focused on sort of the application layout specifically right yeah um and you know we talked a lot about infrastructure but a lot about the you know use cases that we wanted to experiment with so in 2019 we were like oh late 2018 we're like let's create a dap incubator right and this and like like the with the whole rationale that like we wanted more people to work on that uh work on use cases and build out applications uh this went nowhere because there was no money uh or anywhere to be found there was you know no one were there hardly any you know developers building actual products and i think you know also yeah and and in that sense it was like the bottom of the bear market too um and we at medical center and me i we didn't know tune people to be honest a lot of medical call uh you know what people who came from like the 2017 cohort right and i think there was a lot of like uh there was a separation there i think in in kyoto when i first entered it still it felt like very cliquish like you know there are people who entered in 2015 14 who like you i felt like new secrets i didn't right and they all hung out by themselves and uh i guess metacartel were all like thinking about the application land use cases right and i guess we were an odd bunch because we were mostly sort of outsiders who came in around the same time right so i think uh but yeah i think it's a very good group and we became very good friends and and i guess even though we couldn't uh launch the dap incubator we kept them thinking how can we like you know uh build a community of developers and founders like on that unfocusing adapts right so uh you know and then around like early 2019 i want to join this dow called markdown so originally we had the dow which was like you know had 150 million dollars you know coordinated and it hacked and then it created like this you know hard fork for a theorem hindsight that's a very small amount of money but back i think you know in status 2019 no one were talking about dao's to be honest it was not even a concept there was maybe doubts like an argon but even then you know no one really uh really experimented with jazz in a tangible practical manner right and so what mullet did was i would say i describe it as a four minute mile for daos right um so the four minute mindful dallas means sort of like it's the first time someone runs a four minute mile right and the moment like someone does a four minute mile everyone starts running four minute miles because you know the mental a barrier is sort of broken yeah the bar yeah molecules is really simple uh down that like basically coordinated if you're in public goods funding right uh it brought a lot of like a firm emojis together they put in like a hundred eve at a time and you know later on like consensus yeah joe lubin metallic were all put in like uh four thousand years together right um but like you know initially it was just like 200 thousand dollars coordinated and started distributing grants and i was really inspired by that it was like wow like you know i'm all about use cases and actual user values i'm like wow that's actually like real today right um i wanted to join it uh but unfortunately i was about you know i was rejected from joining the dao and uh potentially even why how did this work like how yeah yeah so membership in these molok daos right were like permissioned so you had to approve your membership and it was uh done and then you had to go through a voting process and in a way like moloch was really cool back then it was like the cool kids club and like you know it had a lot of hype and i guess um yeah i mean knew a lot of the book i was doing on the application layer so he thought like hey i know about like the application layer we should get another perspective in this like if you're in public goods funding group right but you know no one else knew me apart from a mean uh you know who created uh markdown and uh i was also too poor to put in a hundred eighth uh so i was poor broken uh no one knew who i was so and they rejected me from donating to public goods funding it's like amazing wait uh what a great way to inspire devotion and uh inspiration uh you know but you know i mean i talked to him afterwards and he was like why don't you molech down and just like take the down and do grants for like application layer stuff right and i'm like you know what that'd be hilarious if i did so i i sort of like looked into it uh and yeah like we we went ahead and forked it and i think that was like my first ever not being an engineer and you know that was the first smart contract instead of smart contracts i i you know i deployed on the mainnet as well um james young and alex hoffman were sort of like helping me with that right um and from that we just gave out one to five thousand dollar grants honestly we were just trying to convince people where did you get the money from yeah we uh good point we barely scraped together 150 grand you know just like just to fund grants uh from and you know some early supporters were matic graf uh spring chain uh new cipher uh you know like really great uh alex vanishand jamie pitts the this is what uh that was i guess intention of donating to the to the community as well to fund things right with no return um and there was like a wide variety of people who would like pitched in passing with a lot of 10 eve donations uh it was just like a really great sort of rallying spirit of the community at like a darker time where like let's do this let's experiment let's like do something with this right so um yeah we we and we started giving out grants and we realized as we were giving out grants we were starting to attract a really uh really smart group of people who were like experiencing quite a bit and we just kept on doing this for like throughout 2019 right um and we had like a demo day even though of like the grants projects sort of in uh in berlin uh and like it just became a really great community where i think he was uh focused on helping one another right like our motto is uh if you wanna go fast you wanna go alone uh you know you know but if you want to go far go together right that's sort of the tagline but it's like an african proverb we stole you know um and so from there you know i i never really cared about dalles i just cared about helping lsh projects and that was what i still focus on today uh but you know at the end of 2019 we decided to sort of take uh mologial i mean not molecular the the fork of molech which is medical telegraph that did grants only and then figure out how to like then we try to create menopausal benches or ventured out and what that was is sort of like this challenge of like how do we actually use a doubt to invest into uh projects in ethereum right um and that was when you know we have to figure out like basically how do you couple legal nc with a dow and like you know uh yeah how do you operate like that uh and you know that's when we launched that to invest into projects you know with the expectation of a return right um and you know we i think we launched the dell eve denver funny enough so muldow uh the phone in maya of dallas i would say launched in chelsea uh launched at eve david 2019 and uh you know metacast adventures or ventured out was launched at east denver or deployed you know uh you've never 2020 so it was sort of like a nice like you know uh uh full circle there um and so yeah and and so that we that's sort of like when i first made my first investments to be honest like i didn't know anything about investing it was all it's always like with like the purpose of launching these downs was to help and fund you know early stage you know founders and like application layer products like today there's so much funding around but back then there was absolutely no funding and like 25 000 meant so much to like a project um so that's real that's where we really wanted to just like get more capital to founders right and yeah that sort of kickstarted like my interest in sort of investing i'd say like at least yeah grandson the way is capital allocation but and it's all about finding the best and earliest like most interesting projects as as early as you can right okay what should people do now now it's like it's like may 2021 maybe like you know the maybe the developer but you don't want to contribute code right or maybe you're a product manager ux designer community person going into the space like where do you go on the internet to start contributing and learning about the stuff i think hackathon's a great way uh to discover new projects at that that sort of inception if you want to work on that level right where you can find other people uh whether just starting our project you can help them think about product you can actually drive strategy you know drive communications drive a lot of the business development and thinking around how to build out the product i think that git coin uh kernel uh is a really like the felt bitcoin kernel fellowship is another great place to actually come in and meet other like-minded people and like collaborate and and you know meet early stage projects too um yeah like i think uh nowadays you know it's no longer so technology driven i think you know everyone stands at to launch a decentralized network that are owned by communities it's like one half is technology other half is like you know the community right it gives you contributors not just like and the challenger is not necessarily you know creating the biggest telegram group but really understanding you know how can you create uh the biggest community of contributors that can actually drive forward and contribute and add value to the network right so um there's these two challenges and you know uh oftentimes yeah you need like two teams two sides of the project to like push either one forward okay so they are already at a hackathon they're they're gonna build amazing staff this weekend where should they go on like tuesday or whenever they hack it on the end is there like one telegram group or discord or like you know subreddit or twitter account where you would point them other than following you on twitter yeah um i would say that um it's a good point i would say that there's a lot of uh so this i think back when we launched the medical grand style it was like the only source of funding you could get uh to you know sort of like build out your product uh without taking on any investment but nowadays i think every d5 project really has their own treasury and has an allocation of funding for grants right so if you're building something that you know has uh is related to say indexed products right you might actually want to go to uh you know dalgon owner's index co-op right uh you know that launches like different indices and actually ask for grant to build out your project right if it's related to lending you might go to ave and also grant that right or you know swaps uni swap um and uh and then each one of these can actually provide grants funding right so i think you know every d5 project out there is really a balancer right or chain link right every every uh community nowadays really has this capacity to support the communities in this fashion and uh i think further downstream then obviously there's like early stage source of capital right um but i mean even medical until today medical gal still runs the grants program and still gives out sort of like failure early stage sort of grants projects pretty cool martha how are you how are getting further and further yeah so i actually don't know how how your road into the space looked like and you know what your advice for people would be would be super curious about this so i mean my role road in this space is as usual you know it's a series of randomness and a bit of luck and a bit of stupidity uh i guess so i i have mountain computer science i did my phd in security and privacy and kind of was quite passionate about that so i was like in the tour community i was very involved in setting up the first free and free and open source foundation in poland where i come from um but then started working for various companies uh the standard like silicon valley for like to work for apple and i definitely decided that's not what i do and i really didn't enjoy that but i wanted to stay in silicon valley and uh as one of the things that i was doing for my phd i was running a project between deutsche telekom which is a big telecom in germany and mozilla the firefox browser mozilla so i had a lot of friends in that space as well so long story short i got an offer a friend called me up as i was actually signing the contract and i was like oh you know i just started this little thing in bitcoin space do you want to join us i was like well i just signed a contract so no but let's catch up and so he brought to this catch-up launch i didn't know five people six people from the company something like that and i was like i mean to the audience here it doesn't sound really surprising but you know san francisco very fancy coffee shop and this bunch of people with leather jackets blue hair kind of all weirdos come in and they start talking about this whole bitcoin and anarchy or you know going up creating govern government less countries and stuff like that i was like i don't know what you're talking about because i literally never heard about bitcoin like maybe something because i was intact but not um and it was early on and but i said well you know you are awesome you are really my type of people i want to work with you and that company was block stream so i lucked out a bit i mean you know i couldn't start any better really uh but as working with blockstream i realized the potential of blockchain is much bigger and greater than just bitcoin and i became very much of a blockchain maximalist rather than bitcoin maximalist and um yeah then the opportunity uh arrived briana bender of the executive director of hyperledger reached out and i moved to hyperledger which was perpendicular in blockchain uh space interesting to see how enterprises big and small are trying to embrace the opportunity and the also they don't understand the democratization that comes with blockchain they still want to use the same blockchain but in their kind of very old school boardroom thinking um which it was a fascinating journey i mean it was four and a half years and observing the space and seeing some of the biggest companies you know doing pocs and failing and then building consortius and and failing and that that was really interesting and then balancer who came up as an again pure luck and when i heard that i could be part of decentral building a community or helping build the community that will be able to handle a dao which is a lot harder i think uh well you were talking about which is kind of bottom-up approach people coming up charming or chipping in some money for brands and so on here a lot of those companies if you think about it like uni swap maker and whatever else they come from a centralized point really of an organization that's trying to deploy the code and do the things build the community decentralize itself become adele which is really challenging thing and i was just listening to a podcast before our panel and about governance and about how we really always iterate on the things that we know we can't really build something completely different so hoping that we will in one iteration come up with this amazing decentralized world and decentralized governance you know that that a lot of things would have happened to to to succeed in that but what's the podcast where should people go to to you know learn about governance yeah so so i quite like bankless podcasts i think it's a very good one but um it's and there there is an episode about governance there but um yeah i mean something that i absolutely want to eco is training and um i think passion is really important something that i think we all for have here in common is that we didn't look to get a rich on bitcoin we were passionate about something and wanted to do it and then this became our job and um i think that this space is currently very much driven by money which saddens me because with that i don't think that we are making as much progress as we could if people were much more interested in understanding what we are building and participating in building that rather than just you know trading on on coins or tokens um and with hackathons one thing that i i would wish actually hackathons in general do better is uh continuity of the project because indeed it's great to come to a hackathon i've organized a lot of haircuts in my life and hack something away for 72 hours or whatever else you know win the prize and then you never touch the repo again and that is what is a pain for me because so much worth it really or you know it's a bounty thing so you build like the sketch of a solution you win the bounty nothing happens afterwards um so i think that we have a long way to go to start utilizing those brilliant young people that come and want to learn and mentoring them more into being long-term contributors and participants in this in this community and you know i think that it's easier now but it's still very clicky in some ways or it's very fragmented maybe that's like if you come into the d5 space and you want to understand like what is the difference between all of those sushi swaps balancers uni swaps whatever like how how do you learn about those things and i mean i'm facing that problem and i haven't found good resources yet ones that would be cl kind of clearly laying out the space um and it's a lot basically a lot of reading and googling and discord channels i think that going on discords and asking questions and not being afraid because all of those communities are really friendly like being a noob is not it's not a surprise to us really i mean there's like 90 of people who come to discord but sometimes you know you you stick around you learn something you stick around and that turns into your full-time job well also it's totally cool to be anonymous in this discourse if you have like yeah if you know if you're for any reason uncomfortable and like you know scared or whatever just like pretend you're a dog or a cat or an anime and that's like very acceptable and very cool um cool let's do it like because we talked a lot about like the past and how to like you know start building towards the future but it's actually would be very cool to hear five minute versions of like the things you're you're focusing on like what do you think will play out this year and what's interesting for you right now and we can we can start um with oh peter has to run in three minutes peter okay can you can you tell us like what's happening in dallas right now and like you know what's the coolest thing this year uh for for the future of dallas and where should be people looking at it to stay up to date like as the last thing i know is the middle of the night if you if you have it in you before falling asleep that would be pretty awesome to give like five minutes or three minute version of that you know the coolest thing about dallas is that you know anyone can join these communities and walk contribute and you know get paid for the time you know like it's pretty uh meritocratic in that sense uh and you know there's like communities like index co-op where you know the building like you know uh i guess you know these financial products i guess indices right like you know dpi fli um and the cool thing is that you know no one you don't need like a you know degree in finance come along and understand what the building you don't need to you can read up all about it you can learn about the processes that they use to actually sort of rigorously uh you know test and conduct due diligence and design ideas and uh yeah anyone involved with internet connection can really just come on and on the firms and like start learning and start contributing right what are the dials going to change this year totally like should we be on the lookout for like you know dials for buying kind of tees or uh dowels for like you know funding like basic infrastructure or dows for funding longevity or like what's what are or investing what like what's what's what are the like top three interesting things that you see there that are maybe like not obvious to people that are just coming into the space i think everything uh we understood as a community will become a dow or have uh yeah or effectively right that you know everything it you know uh i don't know um to be honest that's a interesting question uh i see everything else every community has a doubt i mean most communities online communities have these abilities to really govern themselves allocate capital manage spending they just don't have the tools yet maybe they're on chain but they i think everything really well um yeah i mean that's a general take there's nothing interesting interesting it progresses every every direction so it's hard to really like point out a single one but that's a general theme so it's just like a layer for communities it's like tech infrastructure for like literally every community that's cool that's yeah that's do do you think like people will understand this at scale this year or in 10 years or in five years like is this happening right now or is it still like super soon uh i wrote there was a you know uh prediction uh i did have where like you know i think in well in five years it's gonna be sort of like a fringe concept but it's generally going to be something everyone really understands in tech um yeah like there's going to be the current generation of gals will basically give birth to like you know all these you know dow workers effectively you know this walking this rock economy that's you know all sort of uh based on these dowels and i don't think that that's really going away so yeah very cool thank you so much peter uh sleep well um and see you on the internet where should people follow you uh twitter is the best twitter is the best and your hand journal is yeah my username peter pen uh yeah awesome oh i think it's on the website it's on the xerox website perfect perfect thank you thank you peter bye martha um so so back to you like what three-minute version of like what's what's happening right now in governance what's like the you know the thing that that's gonna happen like within a year to three years like is this gonna be mainstream or are we still gonna be in the experimentation phase like where is this at i think that i have a much sadder view of the taos right now and i think that we haven't yet so no one has yet successfully launched dow at least from that kind of start with the company or start with an organization and dissolve into that rather than let's get together and start doing some grants and funding um and this this is a very complicated thing because uh bankless sorry cardinal i'm just repeating um the podcast is bankless as in no bank um so um yeah i think that um there is a lot we have to figure out and these things um while intellectually we can understand them there is still a lot of aspects that are that we need to figure out like dispute resolution because like okay so we have the smart contracts that are running smoothly and doing all the things and we have on chain governance uh where you have tokens and it's you know one usually one token one vote that's great but what if do we all have to vote on the all of the decisions or do we have a subset of people how is the substitute chosen you know all those things that the reason why we have so little participation in election and democracy is because people are lazy and we don't really want to participate in all of that governance stuff we want just things to happen so philosophically i'm very much there i don't know how much we need to figure out also in terms of like um the regular regulatory stuff because taos are you know geography less so who who decides on on the regulation there but i think that there are a lot of interesting things happening in the meantime in the kind of creating the building blocks so for instance um last week we launched a balancer v2 which is finally the the right version of balancer protocol and we kind of aim actually not to provide the the most beautiful uif but for people to take the um the the protocol and build on top of it like ave is doing like uh gnosis is doing and stuff so i think that there is a lot of potential in trying to start using the protocols and building something in the innovative on top of it that's what i think is what i'm most excited about people will come up with and what will they hack out super cool super cool so i i know that we have to wrap up soon because people want to go and like focus on hacking and you know if there are any outstanding questions that we should should cover like shoot them up and chat but but i'm actually very curious to ask peter sorry to ask patrick uh where where um where did oracles are at like what's gonna what was gonna happen this year or within three years with oracles who who is using this right now who is gonna be using that and is that like something that is now used by you know hundred developers all over the world or is it like whole financial infrastructure for 500 million people is is on it like what what's the scale and where this is headed in like one two three years yeah that's a that's a good question so when we talk about smart contracts today most of the time we're actually talking about what's called a hybrid smart contract and a hybrid smart contract is a smart contract that uses the blockchain the layer one as that settlement layer but uses some sort so excuse me some form of external data or external computation to arrive at its settlement some examples of that right now for example are the vast majority of defy surprisingly enough when people think of oracles oftentimes they don't think of d5 but oracles are kind of one of the main things that's powering it right if you have a borrowing and lending protocol like ave for example you're getting your pricing data from an oracle from a decentralized network and ave is a protocol that that gets its data from chain-link price feeds or chain-link data feeds or synthetics which is an oracle-based uh you know derivatives platform or dex that makes synthetic assets based on the price of those assets in the real world just to jump in if if people don't know this like the value locked in like in d5 right now is 86.5 billion and value locked in avid that patrick was just talking about is 12.3 billion so these are like no small stakes this is like happening for real working and it's like i would already call it like entering the mainstream in in some sense but like i i it will be 100 x bigger just like underscore for newcomers that this is already a big thing not like a fringe thing yeah no that's uh that's that's a great underscore because because yeah exactly that right it's not um these decentralized oracle networks they're not like uh some some play thing that uh you know a couple researchers cooked up and they're like hey one day this is gonna be this is our it's already here it's already powering the vast majority of these protocols or or at least a large a large amount of them uh to have these battle tested secure hybrid smart contracts or hybrid platforms right because they're getting some type of oracle feed you know into their smart contracts so um and that's kind of really the the bare minimum of what these oracles can do right it's aggregating data you know in the real world and bringing it on chain right this is kind of this this is really the the lowest hanging fruit of oracle's if you will uh if we level up if we go one tier higher we start getting to what's called you know some type of oracle services or or off-chain services basically oracle's do anything that a blockchain itself can't uh and that sounds like wait wait anything like really and the answer is yes really anything uh a blockchain can't because right because blockchains are these deterministic systems everything that happens on a blockchain is this happens in this walled garden and so uh they can't connect to your you know to your phone bill right they can't connect to your uh your your grubhub they can't connect to your um to your to your internet they don't have a way to get in right or a way to get out oracles are this lens they're these connecting piece to allow all these services so getting data into your smart contracts so you can actually do some of these d5 things is really the lowest thing is hanging through but it extends to pretty much every application uh in a blockchain world when we talk about nfts right we're talking about creating you know some type of non-fungible token some type of um some type of uh a product or piece of art or whatever uh we've seen a lot of projects use chain link to create digitally scarce randomized nfts right using the chain-link vrf this is kind of one of these next steps getting random numbers in a deterministic system is not actually possible uh which sounds kind of crazy because if you like you go online and you like google you know random number generator right and you hit like you know create random number it'll pop out what seems to be a random number but getting random numbers computers uh aren't actually great at getting around numbers they actually look at some some spot in memory and they say hey this looks random enough we'll give them that number right and in blockchain where there's often a lot of money in the line and everybody can see you know every piece of memory doing this usually fruits in some type of hack or attack and we unfortunately we've seen a lot of protocols you know either you know using you know a poor random number generator uh or or even you know poor data feeds and they get hacked because of this right and they lose millions of dollars right oftentimes when you hear about you know these flash loan attacks you hear about these these these crazy hacks um the last time i did a quick calculation about half of them were actually oracle attacks where some protocol was using uh you know an or a non-decentralized oracle or subpar oracle standard and they lose 20 million dollars boom like that just because they you know they said hey i'm just gonna you know i'm gonna input the numbers myself or something like that and not use kind of these these programmatic this kryptonite cryptographically secure methods right these smart contracts move us from a world where we are uh where we rely on kind of brand guarantees right they move us out of that world into a world where we have these crypto economic guarantees and that's really what you know is the difference between the real world uh today and this better world that we want to have with blockchain right in the real world today if you don't like something uh if you don't like a product or service well what can you do you can walk down the street and you can go to its competitor right and then you just kind of have to keep bouncing back and forth as all these places make these promises to you uh that they ultimately never fulfill because we have to trust in the brand but that's not why we're building this new system right we're building a world that's cryptographically secure and there are these crypto economic guarantees instead of kind of these brand guarantees so oracles allow us to keep these crypto economic securities that blockchain gives us uh and connect the real world pieces to the security of the blockchain so oracles take blockchains and take them out of kind of this fun experiment and into this real world applicable application that everybody can use in their everyday lives and you can literally do endless things with them so data feeds is really kind of the smallest hanging fruit uh chain link vrf is rapidly getting more and more it's this random number generator service and we're seeing other products and projects come out as well uh you know a a generalized cross-train bridge is being built well with shaneland coracles uh what's called the chain the keeper networks where you can automate interactions with your smart contracts in a decentralized manner is being built so all these all these layers and layers and layers of these off-chain services are being built to keep your smart contracts at keep these blockchains as the settlement layer uh for being to do you know everything that we want to do in real life just in a blockchain crypto economically guaranteed setting so uh and yes it's it's not it's not some fairy tale uh it's not uh it's not this it's a little thing it's it's massive it's happening right now um and yeah as uh um as a as chris mentioned there's so there's a lot of that locked value in these right now so there so it's not just uh you know these have been battle tested um they've been out for quite some time a lot of the d5 protocols that are using chain link data feeds been using it basically since inception and um yeah if you're looking to build something really really cool definitely check out the documentation definitely jump into the discord i'm going to be in the discord for this hackathon and so will the rest of our team so feel free to reach out ask questions you know join the community say hello say hi again as i was saying earlier uh this these are really the places where people learn people grow uh and people take you know ideas and bring them to these these life protocols so really excited to see what everybody builds did you see the question in the side chat oh sorry i totally i got uh i started i started just going uh can combining oracles with dows to create a trusted meritocracy be it viable that would be so cool sorry be a viable use case yeah combining oracles and dows would be insane um i don't think a protocol has actually done that um there's your alpha leak for the day there's your there's your hackathon project that would be insane uh maybe a dow that's based on some type of data feed the dal uses a random number it uses uh like the chain link api calls to connect to some off-chain service yeah like to me that sounds like insanely cool please do that yeah that sounds awesome and patrick to what you said about security and and the things being hacked i think this is if we talk about opportunities and potential for newcomers the secure like i think this is it's a gold mine first of all i mean you know the bounties are insanely high in this space so bug bounties uh we launched a back bounty that is currently at four million dollars to break v2 i mean these are really good money if you know what you're doing but security is a really really important space because very few people actually give you any guarantees when it comes to d5 smart contracts and all that right nobody will write one and like set up a company that will verify and put guarantees and some insurance in case the smart contract doesn't work i mean there are some that are trying to do it but not much so it is a very good opportunity for people to get involved 100 percent really cool kind of really cool i think we have to slowly be wrapping up uh and lesbian will be hacking but you know we probably will be all hanging out in the on discord um and ready to help however we can so just um just heat us up i just wanted to tell everybody you probably know this but just to be sure tomorrow it works uh it's going to house the blockchain uh beginners weekend boot camp um make sure to register to the schedule link posted on website you probably know about it if you're watching this um but just to be just just to make sure this is you know i was asking everybody what's the best way to get up to speed on this and the suggested answer was like this is the excellent way this is the hackathon that that you're just adding right now but other ways are also like excellent like outside of this weekend any um any any last comments from marta or patrick so i actually do have to jump but i do see a quick question here can you say something about smarky project that's cooperating with chain link um yes i don't know too much about it um or or really what's going on but if you reach out to harry he's in the discord uh say hi to harry he's uh he's doing some fantastic things over there thank you so much patrick have a great day and see you on discord thank you martha any any any last words of wisdom from you you are muted uh no i actually thought that we were wrapping up no just get involved ask questions come to discord come to events we are having an ama on discord on monday and next week so uh on balancer discord so if you are curious about d5 and v2 you can always come to our discord and ask questions there excellent thank you so much um i'm joining the discord right now um both balancer and xerox hack so if you have any questions during the during the hackathon uh let us know the broader team was also the future of blockchain and the last question if we didn't run out of time was supposed to be how how and when are we gonna on board first billion people to crypto i don't know how many people we are at like coinbase has 56 million users i would guess that the total is like less than 200 million probably right and that's like being extremely generous right um do you have any i don't i don't bet that's my one role in my world my life is that i don't bet uh do you have any predictions to be honest uh to be honest i think that we are getting to something very interesting i as part of my community building i'm also doing a lot of kind of new user support and helping people out when when they have issues with with their trades and pools and stuff and i recently had a 67 year old man who had some questions and was using balancer um platform to do some investments and invested like a significant amount of his savings in it so i think we are getting there if it's almost 70 year old guy can do it um it's a matter of time and an education i think education is incredibly important because we are giving people this amazing tools and we are democratizing finance and we just forgot to tell it's a bit like we're giving them knives but we just forgot them to forget to tell them to point them outwards um so yeah excellent more education you so much um have a great evening thank you everybody thank you chad see you on discord yeah see everybody on discord thank you so much bye